1badzx12r
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posted March 23, 2009 02:17 PM
quote:
quote:
, Velocity ran one at Commerce last year and Barry was very impressed with the power output.
i'm glad you got one ..last time you was thinking and purchased a busa when i seen you posting ....my bad sorry
funny when i talk 2 him 2 years ago ..barry said zx14s and zx12's weren't worth turboing rambling about the fukk-up airbox design ..and said buy a busa .. guess barry changed his mine..
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1badzx12r
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posted March 23, 2009 02:18 PM
 Edited By: 1badzx12r on 23 Mar 2009 22:19
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Bad in Black
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posted March 23, 2009 03:05 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
..
Rob the right shop would have been able to diagnose that injector prob for you
let me tell you again ...it was not an injector problem .. reason ijectors were flow tested twice and when installed i change injectors to see if lean spot changed and it did not change ..
the rail was open and fine ...the hose was fine and both parts were replaced .. it was something with #4 throttle body ..but i changed the whole assemble out ..
when i changed the throttle bodies out i was testing it to see if it was electric that was causeing it ..like ecu or wiring and following bills advice on the ecu .. but it fix itself after throttlebodies were changed
Sorry...I guess I'm paying about half the attention I should be. It woulda been nice to know exactly what the prob was............I'd really like to know how to avoid it, or even diagnose it without burning up a piston  It sounds like it was a fluke whatever it was tho. That prob was on the 08 motor you bought used right?
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1badzx12r
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posted March 23, 2009 03:22 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 23 Mar 2009 23:22
no the 08 motor and 08 throttle bodies work flawless 10k miles 300 passes on it.. it was my original motor that ran fine even with NOS FOR 30 K MILES ...Put the turbo on and 1st time out riding hard it goes boom ...even had a dyno session on it before i rode it hard ..
had the motor built with forged pistons and 3 dyno sessions and 1st time i ride it hard again same thing..
i had to got back to old school ride bike around the block and check plugs also installed a a/f meter ... longer rides slowly bring up rpm pass the ride before and pull plugs ..
and my 1st test was bone stock 08 motor with my 06 throttle bodies and it failed plug test
when i put the 08 TB's and 08 motor together everything worked ..
i know its some strange shitt but it happened
____________
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duncan
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posted March 23, 2009 03:47 PM
quote:
For boosting a stock motored bike with a stage 1 kit, the 14 seems to be the best way to go for highest power and best durability. Thats the reason I chose it over boosting my busa. The busa may well get boosted as well down the road tho  We're starting from opposite ends eh Duncan? lol
Yea I guess so. I feel the 14 from all I've read makes a little more power than the busa. I've wondered at times why I chose to "boost" the busa instead of my 14. I guess the fact that there is more information out on the busa as far as turbo systems go and Velocity built a couple of great bikes for me before I bought my 07 14 I chose the busa...You can bet if this economy ever turns my 14 will see 20+ lbs of boost.
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duncan
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posted March 23, 2009 04:07 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
, Velocity ran one at Commerce last year and Barry was very impressed with the power output.
i'm glad you got one ..last time you was thinking and purchased a busa when i seen you posting ....my bad sorry
funny when i talk 2 him 2 years ago ..barry said zx14s and zx12's weren't worth turboing rambling about the fukk-up airbox design ..and said buy a busa .. guess barry changed his mine..
Yea from what I understand Barry lost alot of money on the zx12 kit and was a little gun shy with the 14. Also Velocity is sponsored by Suzuki and running a Kawi 14 probably would not set well with Zook...
In your oppinion whats the best kit out right now for the 14? Big CC Racing talks a big game as well as Muzzy. Richard from RCC also designed a good looking kit for the big Kawi.
You seem to understand the little differences in the busa and 14 on boost and thats something I don't in that all my experience is with the busa
On another note I just returned from dinner with my wife and kids and now that I've calmed down a little...lol I'm sorry for some of my aggressive comments.
PEACE
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Bad in Black
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posted March 23, 2009 04:14 PM
quote:
quote:
For boosting a stock motored bike with a stage 1 kit, the 14 seems to be the best way to go for highest power and best durability. Thats the reason I chose it over boosting my busa. The busa may well get boosted as well down the road tho We're starting from opposite ends eh Duncan? lol
Yea I guess so. I feel the 14 from all I've read makes a little more power than the busa. I've wondered at times why I chose to "boost" the busa instead of my 14. I guess the fact that there is more information out on the busa as far as turbo systems go and Velocity built a couple of great bikes for me before I bought my 07 14 I chose the busa...You can bet if this economy ever turns my 14 will see 20+ lbs of boost.
My bua would have been about a grand cheaper to boost than the 14, but I found an awesome deal on a used 14 kit. I was still going to boost the 14 though anyway....I'm a tall guy and it just fits me better overall The odds are pretty good tho that the busa will see a stage 1 kit in the next couple of years as well 
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dubious
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posted March 23, 2009 04:23 PM
Edited By: dubious on 24 Mar 2009 00:25
quote:
no the 08 motor and 08 throttle bodies work flawless 10k miles 300 passes on it.. it was my original motor that ran fine even with NOS FOR 30 K MILES ...Put the turbo on and 1st time out riding hard it goes boom ...even had a dyno session on it before i rode it hard ..
had the motor built with forged pistons and 3 dyno sessions and 1st time i ride it hard again same thing..
i had to got back to old school ride bike around the block and check plugs also installed a a/f meter ... longer rides slowly bring up rpm pass the ride before and pull plugs ..
and my 1st test was bone stock 08 motor with my 06 throttle bodies and it failed plug test
when i put the 08 TB's and 08 motor together everything worked ..
i know its some strange shitt but it happened
Hey GUYS,
BEYOND THE BITCHING I HAVE SOMETHING RESOUNDING TO OFFER.... lol
I HOPE EVERYONE REALISES THE 06 INJECTORS ARE 330CC OR 30 LB INJECTORS, AND THE 08 INJECTORS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE 40 LB OR 440CC....
WHAT i HAVE HEARD BUT HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO MEASURE....
THAT IS A HUGE.... 25% INCREASE.
IF YOU DID NOT MAP FOR THE SMALLER 06 INJECTOR, #4 RECIEVES THE LEAST FUEL FIRST WHEN THE INJECTORS LOCK BEYOND 80% DUTY CYCLE....
WHEN THE DUTY CYCLE ENCROUACHES ABOVE 80% , THEY BECOME SATURATED AND LOCK OPEN.
#4 WILL BURN 1ST WHEN THE FUEL FLOW TO PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE,
#4 STARVES 1ST....
I HAVE PERSONALLY SEEN THIS ON BIKE WITH 120 DRY SHOT... #4 BURNED UP.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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1badzx12r
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posted March 23, 2009 05:02 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 24 Mar 2009 01:03
i did map my 06 injectors long before i put the 08's on ..in fact the 06 had 4 mapping sessions by 2 different tuners on 2 differant dyno's .. ive had the 08 mapped also after install and had an old 06 map as a base and it took more fuel on mapping ...but thats apple to oranges being differant boost ranges ..
i didn't measure injectors but looking at them they look alike but where angled a little higher on the 08
____________
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1badzx12r
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posted March 23, 2009 05:21 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 24 Mar 2009 01:32
In your oppinion whats the best kit out right now for the 14? Big CC Racing talks a big game as well as Muzzy. Richard from RCC also designed a good looking kit for the big Kawi.
PEACE
if i was buying today a kit ..hands down mr turbo and i'm not fan of terry's ...but i was impressed with his multi-runs on the chrome zx14 at the texas mile IN 07 .. no body else that i know of have run a turbo zx14 with same results .. the bike was still running after 230 mph and 2 days of running miles and did a drag session at HRP... I would have purchased from him at the beginning but he had a policy of all money up front and you wait 8 weeks for the kit to be built ... i didn't like that .. ...
them topend runs are killers with tall gearing ..
when mine goes boom or need refreshing my next set-up will be forged 13 to1 ceramic coated pistons and 550cc injectors and valve springs with my current turbo rebuilt .. thats it i'm gonna leave everything else alone ..my clutch is factory with just washers my tranny's stock with an mps auto shifter .. and its been bullet proof for some hard riding ..
i'm sorry for offending ..
____________
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dubious
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posted March 23, 2009 05:51 PM
Chris Jones has the quickest on so far.... GT35 with 8 injectors...
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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Bad in Black
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posted March 23, 2009 06:08 PM
quote:
Chris Jones has the quickest on so far.... GT35 with 8 injectors...
Thats the guy TommyK (the guy I bought my kit from) is going with for his big hp 14 build. He's hoping for somewhere around 500 rw ponies Aren't you shooting for something like that yourself Lyle?
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duncan
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posted March 23, 2009 06:08 PM
I met Chris Jones at Commerce last year and the dude knows his stuff for sure.
1badzx12r I tried to talk with Terry Kiser about my 14 about 6 months ago and found him to be very short and almost rude in his responses to my questions. He'll not get any money from me. What size turbo you running on your 14?
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dubious
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posted March 23, 2009 06:31 PM
quote:
quote:
Chris Jones has the quickest on so far.... GT35 with 8 injectors...
Thats the guy TommyK (the guy I bought my kit from) is going with for his big hp 14 build. He's hoping for somewhere around 500 rw ponies Aren't you shooting for something like that yourself Lyle?
Yes,
In fact Tommy just PM'd me on psychobike.... they have those there... PM's
hopefully he and I can hook up on the horn...
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
|
dubious
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posted March 23, 2009 06:33 PM
quote:
I met Chris Jones at Commerce last year and the dude knows his stuff for sure.
1badzx12r I tried to talk with Terry Kiser about my 14 about 6 months ago and found him to be very short and almost rude in his responses to my questions. He'll not get any money from me. What size turbo you running on your 14?
Chris has been very polite , open and honest.... but busy.
Terry was very short with me also... too busy for business it seems.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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Bad in Black
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posted March 23, 2009 07:18 PM
quote:
In your oppinion whats the best kit out right now for the 14? Big CC Racing talks a big game as well as Muzzy. Richard from RCC also designed a good looking kit for the big Kawi.
PEACE
if i was buying today a kit ..hands down mr turbo and i'm not fan of terry's ...but i was impressed with his multi-runs on the chrome zx14 at the texas mile IN 07 .. no body else that i know of have run a turbo zx14 with same results .. the bike was still running after 230 mph and 2 days of running miles and did a drag session at HRP... I would have purchased from him at the beginning but he had a policy of all money up front and you wait 8 weeks for the kit to be built ... i didn't like that .. ...
them topend runs are killers with tall gearing ..
when mine goes boom or need refreshing my next set-up will be forged 13 to1 ceramic coated pistons and 550cc injectors and valve springs with my current turbo rebuilt .. thats it i'm gonna leave everything else alone ..my clutch is factory with just washers my tranny's stock with an mps auto shifter .. and its been bullet proof for some hard riding ..
i'm sorry for offending ..
I was leaning towards Terry's kit as well. He uses the T3/T4 garret hybrid turbo with external gate. I talked to him for abit.....was pretty helpful with answering questions, and was willing to deal alittle on the kit price I have 3 diff sets of install instructions for 3 dff kits on my desktop.......the kits and installs are pretty similiar overall. Its the spool characteristics of the turbo's, wastegate types, fuel system types (in-tank pumps versus externally mounted), quality of exhaust manifold/material, and overall fit of the kit that will prolly be the biggest deciding factor for you. They also all make similiar power. Mr. Turbo and Cycle Logic both keep the turbo completely under the bodywork and the high flow walbro fuel pumps in the stock location, and both exit the right sides of the bike which makes mounting up a full exhaust easier. The IHI turbo with the Cycle Logic kit is good for up to 435hp. I think the garret with the Mr.Turbo kit is about the same. The IHI spools up smooth and strong, but very controllable, and is also very efficient for high hp/boost apps.....so you can upgrade the kit and use the same turbo.
Muzzy uses a turbonetics T3/T4 style hybrid as well.....but I've heard they tend to fail and leak early. And they have an external fuel pump with more fuel/electrical lines to deal with. And you have to cut the bodywork. Harry's kit (ATP) uses a garret GT-30 turbo....nice unit with good efficiency for higher boost applications.....and also has an external pump.....and also requires cutting of the bodywork, and the exhaust faces the left side of the bike, which can be a pain to get a full exhaust on. Plus JC had some issue with getting the turbo oil flow set-up. Harry said it didn't need a scavenge pump originally, but JC had alot of oil issues and had to make up a scavenge system. Big CC makes good stuff from what I've read...but they're oversea's...and the exchange rate really raises the kit price way up over the guys in the U.S. All these guys have done a pretty good job of matching compressor maps to the 14's exhaust charactersitics......so I think spool up times and overall effenciency are also pretty close. I'd prefer the garret T3/T4 in Terry's kit if I had a choice of turbo's tho. I think its prolly the quickest spooling while still be efficient at higher boost levels for down the road, comes with an external wastegate........and is supposedly a dead reliable unit. I actually have the stage 1 and 2 install directions if you'd like to look them over The Mr. Turbo kit is a bit more work to install if you follow the instructions to the letter tho.
There are other choices for kits as well....Forced Air systems technologies (F.A.S.T.) but I've heard the quality of their turbo's/other parts can be a little sketchy. Barry prolly makes a kick-ass kit, Chris Jones makes custom big hp kits....but they cost, same with NLR I believe. I would try and find a good used system first Used busa systems are everywhere, but used 14 kits are alot harder to come by unfortunately 
This is just some of the info I dredged up from the net....so I can't garauntee its dead on.....but it was all I had to go on
Hope I helped alittle, and didn't just make the decisions tougher lol
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Bad in Black
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posted March 23, 2009 07:31 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Chris Jones has the quickest on so far.... GT35 with 8 injectors...
Thats the guy TommyK (the guy I bought my kit from) is going with for his big hp 14 build. He's hoping for somewhere around 500 rw ponies Aren't you shooting for something like that yourself Lyle?
Yes,
In fact Tommy just PM'd me on psychobike.... they have those there... PM's
hopefully he and I can hook up on the horn...
Ask him how his builds going. I was going to give him a ring and see how the new beast was.....I think he said it should be done about now?
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dubious
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posted March 23, 2009 08:08 PM
well, Tommy is looking for an intercooler now....
didn't get into his build progress though
Will call him tomorrow.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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duncan
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posted March 24, 2009 04:13 AM
Bad in Black, thats good info there. I'm also thinking the t3/4 turbo is the way to go on the street{spools hard and fast}...I may talk with Chris about an install sometime this year
I wish this forum had some way of having a "TURBO SECTION" for us boost junkies.
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dubious
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posted March 24, 2009 06:54 AM
PM's would be good too.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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NINJA12
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posted March 24, 2009 07:54 AM
Thanks guys.
This info is a little late to save me the first build, but hopefully I won't have to do it again this year. What do you guys recommend for a "street bike" tune, psi and fuel?
Can someone tell me what would make one kit burn pistons more than another, other than tune? Please be as specific as possible.
The way I see it a kit has Turbo, header, fuel pump, and regulator the rest is plumbing, fit , finish and tune. all the stage 1 and stage2 turbos seem to advertise around the same
HP depending on psi and fuel system .
Why would one sytem make more HP at 6 psi?
I have the Cycle logic kit .
This is my first turbo and I'm learning the hard way, BAD advice and expensive parts.
Keep the knowledge flow!
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dubious
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posted March 24, 2009 08:17 AM
Edited By: dubious on 24 Mar 2009 16:18
Street bike:
9.5 :1 compression 11 psi, 11.2 AFR target, sb6 -pull timing based on boost progressive as necessary, premium fuel.... conservative , smart safe and reliable....
or stock compresssion, pull 6 degree's at 5 + psi, 9psi max on pump.
Use a good spark plug, 1 heat range cooler than stock
always tune with race fuel and work your way down from there
Never exceed 80 duty cycle or 100 psi fuel pressure.
If your real serious, Chris Jones is awesome to speak with and really knows his shit!
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
|
Bad in Black
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posted March 24, 2009 12:22 PM
quote:
Bad in Black, thats good info there. I'm also thinking the t3/4 turbo is the way to go on the street{spools hard and fast}...I may talk with Chris about an install sometime this year
I wish this forum had some way of having a "TURBO SECTION" for us boost junkies.
I agree....you get a thread like this going and its kinda suprising how many of us boost addicts come out of the woodwork I think a turbo section would be great
And from what I've heard you can't go wrong with Chris Jones If I wanted big power and had the extra cash I'd make the trip to see him most def
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Bad in Black
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posted March 24, 2009 12:27 PM
quote:
quote:
no the 08 motor and 08 throttle bodies work flawless 10k miles 300 passes on it.. it was my original motor that ran fine even with NOS FOR 30 K MILES ...Put the turbo on and 1st time out riding hard it goes boom ...even had a dyno session on it before i rode it hard ..
had the motor built with forged pistons and 3 dyno sessions and 1st time i ride it hard again same thing..
i had to got back to old school ride bike around the block and check plugs also installed a a/f meter ... longer rides slowly bring up rpm pass the ride before and pull plugs ..
and my 1st test was bone stock 08 motor with my 06 throttle bodies and it failed plug test
when i put the 08 TB's and 08 motor together everything worked ..
i know its some strange shitt but it happened
Hey GUYS,
BEYOND THE BITCHING I HAVE SOMETHING RESOUNDING TO OFFER.... lol
I HOPE EVERYONE REALISES THE 06 INJECTORS ARE 330CC OR 30 LB INJECTORS, AND THE 08 INJECTORS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE 40 LB OR 440CC....
WHAT i HAVE HEARD BUT HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO MEASURE....
THAT IS A HUGE.... 25% INCREASE.
IF YOU DID NOT MAP FOR THE SMALLER 06 INJECTOR, #4 RECIEVES THE LEAST FUEL FIRST WHEN THE INJECTORS LOCK BEYOND 80% DUTY CYCLE....
WHEN THE DUTY CYCLE ENCROUACHES ABOVE 80% , THEY BECOME SATURATED AND LOCK OPEN.
#4 WILL BURN 1ST WHEN THE FUEL FLOW TO PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE,
#4 STARVES 1ST....
I HAVE PERSONALLY SEEN THIS ON BIKE WITH 120 DRY SHOT... #4 BURNED UP.
Thats great info Lyle........lots of folks prolly forget that fact. You could have just saved somebody an engine. Thats why these forums are so great........all the info can really save somebody alot of money and heartaches
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NINJA12
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posted March 10, 2010 08:36 AM
Almost a year later,
do we know anymore about these kits?
Any lessons learned that you want to share?
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