JDC
Zone Head
Posts: 570
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posted March 22, 2009 09:59 PM
 Edited By: JDC on 23 Mar 2009 06:01
well.. I know almost nothing, and maybe even have a negative fund of turbo knowledge..
however, listening to folks talk about conservative values and protections I believe I am still operating in the 'sorta' conservative range.
I jacked my PSI slowly up to 7 with the actuator, and it is not all that precise of a gadget as I noticed while slowly increasing the value. I've have a Muzzy plate to estimated 4.5 deg retard befor I started the bike up with the turbo.
I will likely to go a wastegate as I saw how the actuator seems to kinda provide a small PSI 'range', so to speak.
  
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Bad in Black
Expert Class
Posts: 348
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posted March 23, 2009 02:16 AM
Edited By: Bad in Black on 23 Mar 2009 10:27
quote:
Dubious wrote:
I am happy to hear that you have great luck!
I know of 3 bikes personally, and 7 total that had issues with the cyclelogic kits, cartridge seals leaking and a bunch more of other stuff...
ask Rotten about his experience, or Tbone, or......
I am not going to get into this with you.
Niether of us were there, and YOU don't know all parties involved.
I have spoken with the mechanic , and Kevin on the phone, and via emails...
Did you know it made 9psi and ran out of fuel at 40 % throttle... he didn't even have a chance to get it tuned as tha damn thing tapped out the stock injectors at less than 1/2 throttle...
This same mechanic has installed RC Turbo's many times , and never seen teh quality control issues with the cycle logic kit.
Exhaust leaks, leaking cartridges, faulty wastegates, improper oil system instructions, faulty FMu's.... oh and I am leaving one out for the know it alls.... they will find out with their own pistons...
If Lee and Jesse weren't playing smart and caught the cycle logic kit overboosting, due to improper wasgate boost sensing fitting, they could have burned one up too.
That was almost 2 yrs ago though now so....
...
so maybe I will shut up and let you flog on..........
This is the bullshit that causes people to shut up.
ZXBOB knows much more about turbo's than you or I together but never says peep, because it always turns in to another internet panty fight.
As Bob said to me today on the phone.... " I have my idea's and opinions but I keep them to myself cause they all seem to know better than I do"....
thanks out to ALL the know it alls .....for diminishing the knowledge base availbale to the rest of us....
Those with a closed mind, never grow, and stunt the rest of us with their ignorance too.
You're doing the exact same thing you accuse me of Dub...........read what you wrote...shame on you 
And maybe YOU should ask Rotten what happened with his turbo troubles? I know exactly what happened, he had a bad injector, combined with 2 supposedly "expert" turbo tuners that cost him a set of pistons. He never had a single lick of trouble with his kit. And once he decided to do his own tuning with a safe base map and data-logger he's had over 10,000 miles and 300 1/4 mile passes with the kit at 8-9 and lately 11psi of boost on a bone stock motor with no issues. You can knock anything on the internet if you want.......but it always helps to have facts and keep an open mind You can do a search online and find horror stories about every kit maker out there................and I mean EVERY one. I have a busa and hang out on hayabusa.org alot, go over there and do a search.....you'll find everybodies kits have good and bad feedback. JC hasn't exactly had smooth sailing with Harry's kit either....he's actually had several problems he's had to fight for awhile. In fact he said if he would have known about some of the issues ahead of time, he would have went with another kit. But it still doesn't mean its a pos. I can say after discussing things with him I'm glad I didn't get Harry's kit tho You're a good guy Lyle......just be sure and keep an open mind like you're advising me to do And be sure and shoot straight with us when you get your bike up and running and any possible probs you might have. And I'll do the same  But my kit already has a years worth of running on it, and it looks like new, especially the turbo And read Evilsports post below here........he's pretty honest about where the shop seems to be admitting the problem lies, which is why they're hopefully going to be correcting THEIR mistakes
quote:
Evilsports wrote:
Bad In Black, I can appreciate that you are ticked off at shops that screw people over, but I would like to give these guys the chance to make things right before jumping the gun. Shit happens sometimes. Like I said, I talked to the owner and he sounded like he wasn't going to try to shirk his responsibility. He's not ignoring me, I said he was going to call me back and hadn't. I'm not going to drag anyone through the mud unless they deserve it. I have every reason to believe that he will follow through on what we discussed. If not, then I will post up the entire situation here and let people judge for themselves. And chalk it up to a lesson learned the hard way. If he does follow through then I have every intention of completing my build with them and moving forward. A setback like this can be one of two things. An opportunity for a company to cement a working relationship with someone and show there character, or a chance to fall on there face.
And for the record I stand by my statement that this failure was human error. Aside from other contributing factors, I can see no reason for melted pistons when you have every relevant piece of data sitting in front of you. Real time fuel pressure, boost pressure, oil pressure, a/f ratio, PCIII duty cycle, throttle position. Fuel pressure to low? Get out of it. Boost higher then expected? Get out of it. Oil pressure low? Get out of it. A/F lean?.... You get the picture. That's the whole point of a dyno tune. To have a safe place to work out the kinks.
**Edit** Also keep in mind that I am not a mechanic. I am not a turbo expert. I don't claim to know anything that hasn't been generously shared by people on boards like this one. This is my LAYMANS take on things. Take it for what it's worth. If I knew so much about dyno tuning my own bike I wouldn't have spent the money to have an expert do it. .
Thanks for sharing Evil, I hope the shop works with you and gets your bike back where it should be Unfortunately I've seen too many shops screw people over, and I guess I'm just a little soured on the whole "we're an expert shop" thing   All I can say is I'm glad I do all my own work
Hopefully you'll have an awesome running turbo 14 soon tho 
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zxbob
Pro
Posts: 1692
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posted March 23, 2009 03:38 AM
WOW ...... im headed for the "smackhouse"
I think Mongo's posted some new boooobies to look at !
Bob 
____________
Good parts aint cheap and cheap parts aint good !
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted March 23, 2009 04:02 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 23 Mar 2009 12:02
16 psi, stock motor, no timing pulled, 87 octane....righteous power! 
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duncan
Expert Class
Posts: 341
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posted March 23, 2009 04:56 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Also power wise as well as reliability (I know it's expensive) lower the compression. You can apply more boost safely.
LIFE
I totally disagree. With a small turbo that wicks up fast more boost far surpasses the HP you lose in low compression. I've owned 3 turbo busas with three different turbos on each. 35r was terrible on the street and as you say "sux azz". 3076r was much bettor but still laged to much. I'm currently running a 2871r dual bb and it spools at 2200 rpms and is at full boost (22 lbs) by 5500 rpms. Granted even with a spacer plate to lower the comp I still have to run c-16 to run those boost levels. On pump gas I can run 10 lbs(with h2o injection), if I ran stock compression and no h2o injection 6 lbs max...I could pull some timing but that hurts HP as well, although like lowering the compression i'd make up for it and then some with more "BOOOOOSSSSSSSTTTTT"
what did i just tell you ..same shitt your trying to sell me .. why don't you call and ask somebody like mr turbo and see what he has to say about this subject ... you can have your 22lbs of boost and 400hp .. i'm fine with 325 hp on 9lbs and don't have 1/2 the shitt to maintain or add onto the bike .. when you get 10.000 miles 300 passes and at least 500 topend roll-ons on your daily street riding turbo bike let me know ... i'm sure you can get c16 at chevron when on a road trip @ 10.00 a gal. ...
and i seen your comment on 10lbs with pump gas ... but i'll clean your clock at 10lbs with my set-up on the street
325HP on 9 lbs I have to call bull shit. Secondly Mr turbo In my oppinion is a little behind in quality and advancement than Velocity or NLR. I've had a combined milage far more than 10.000 miles on all my turbo bikes and Barry and Seb know a thing or two...lol
I'm not trying to sell you anything, just stating a few oppinions.
Lastly, for a 1/4 mile on pump I can run up to 13-14 lbs. Top end I must leave it on 10lbs. I'm sure you have alot less $ in your build than me and thats definitely a plus, but other than frequent oil and filter changes whats there to maintain? I"ve checked my plugs a few times after running c-16 and they were a little chared with lead but after a tank of pump they cleaned right up. Have you ever run big boost? If not don't knock it, or assume other than the initial expense of the engine build, fuel costs, and electronics there's nothing more to maintain than your ride.
I'm not going to get into a pissing contest here with you so I'm done with this argument. Unfortunately you took offense to my opening comments.
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billeason
Zone Head
Posts: 711
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posted March 23, 2009 05:52 AM
I guess im one of the so called experts that helped rotten with his turbo huh! I actually asked him if he changed the tb completely to eliminate the injecters. He told me he had them tested and eventually changed tb's anyway and it ran fine from there. I thought i had helped the man,and maybe im not who you are referring to but i was on the phone a lot with rob when this was going on. My take on this.if you run over 7lbs on 14 with the shitty gas thats at the pump now days you either pull timing or pistons its your choice but i have done a ton of them for guys that wont leave the boost alone..........Bill
____________
bill eason
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted March 23, 2009 07:25 AM
Edited By: dubious on 23 Mar 2009 15:41
Bad n Black,
All I was stating in my last post is not everyone has had the same luck with that kit, and to make a simple comment like there is nothing wrong with the kit and it is all the tuner, is not a true or accurrate comment.
There are so many things to watch at once on a dyno, and to try and make sense of multiple problems at handwhich happen in an instant, Boost, fuel pressure, fuel pressure rise on boost, oil pressure, ch temp, a/f ratio, duty cycle on 4 cylinders, egt's for 4 cylinders (if your a real good tuner). etc etc
One single individual will have a very hard time with all that info plus issues like spinning the tire, operating the bike, and dyno on top of it all to decipher multiple problems.
Then to have 2 critical mechanical issues happening and a bad map, all the while needing to figure out what they are, never exceeding 40% throttle and even that burns the pistons ....
If it had an external or adjustable wastegate, it could have been turned down to a safer level and work out the issues from there, but he did not have that option.
If the regulkator would have reacted to the adjustments he could have worked through that problem. If the map would have been safe at mid throttle settings it would have also helped the issue. Trying to tune a new kit on pump fuel is one thing I can never understand, and did notleave any margin for error.
Ther were many compounding factors in play there.
I know the mechanic personally. He is a good person, and would never purposely burn a motor. In addition to his moral chartacter, he has a reputation to uphold.
This is his lively hood.
We can all point fingers, I am pinting 2 of them right now.
I would blame the equipment equally as the mechanic, except knowing what issues he has had in the past with the same kits, the longer finger is aimed directly at the equipment.
Anyway, we all have opinions and I am glad we have the perspectives and input from all, I just have issue with people dissmissing the FACTS of one scenario, with the GOOD LUCK and FACTS of their own.
Thanks for the input from all.
I really do want to learn, and share.
I think that is why we all are here.
Thanks guys.... sincerely.
Lyle
BTW,
unless cyclelogic has updated their base map, don't stay in the midrange under boost for long, cause the one I have seen is so lean in the middle TP ranges, it will burn your pistons before you even have a chance to get started tuning it.
It looked to be a drag specific map to me.....100% throttle was close, and idle was safe.
Anyway I will no longer comment on this particular scenario.
Its not my bike, and not my business really.
I just hope they can get it resolved and everyone is fair and satisfied in the end.
Kevin, if want my stock pistons, they are mint, and I will GIVE them to you, in effort to help with all parties involved.
Kevin, make sure you order the rings asap, either stock or aftermarket pieces I have seen use the stock rings. You will need them.
I am going to the Kawi dealer today, so if you want I already have part numbers and will order them for you. You can paypal me the money and it will be done.
I will also sell you my SPA regulator that came with my atp kit. They go foe $130 USD, and I will sell it to you for $130 Canadian.
Just my gesture to all parties involved.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted March 23, 2009 07:34 AM
well duncan you can hammer on mr turbo all you want i'm not a fan of his but he knows turbo probably better than anybody ...BUT FACT IS HIS TURBO BIKE IS THE ONLY ZX14 to hold together at a mile event that (I) KNOW OF AND holds the record .. and you can call bullshit all you want ..i know what i got from a stock motor bike and you feel like a fool buying the bullshit you did to get what i got from 9lbs ...
2 yes i've run high boost bike before ..so has alot of my friends ..guess what they sux ass at launching ,sux azz as street-bikes, ands sux azz in general , ..
and no combined is not the same as 10,000 on 1 bike or 300 passes on 1 bike or 1 motor ..
and as bill stated i had an issue with a cycle-logic kit also ...but after injectors were sent to shops twice and came back with good bill of healths and 2 burned pistons later ..i change the whole throttles body out and fix the problem ...in my finding .yes my finding ..cause the shops or turbo pro's couldn't do nothing but pop pistons for me and i took over ..and i've had a happy running bike ever since ..
and when you state no more maintenance than i have you state bullshit
remember now i've got a turbo zx14 not a turbo busa ...not the same creatures .. and sorry if we get off on the wrong foot .. But i've don't like hearing poser's that own something that never get ridden hard and then hop on the internet and tell guys about how great it is ... when they have no clue.. sure i can put 15lbs on my motor and never have an issue if i never ride it hard..and keeping a turbo bike togther on the track is easy ... you can run as much boost as you want at a track being you only running for 7 to 8 seconds ...but making 1 live in 100 degree weather on a 500 mile hauling azz back road ride all day is hard ..and the guys that say how easy or great it is have no freaking clue ..
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted March 23, 2009 07:47 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 23 Mar 2009 15:50
you know dub ..i do remember an ATP kit being installed by the ATP people going boom 1st and then the guy lost all faith in turbo bike and sold it..
the fact is ALL KITS DO THE SAME ..blow air into the motor .. now if you don't match that air with GOOD fuel something goes boom ..
in my case my zx14 had an issue in the throttle bodies which to this day NOBODY can explain .. but it sure as fukk happen ...not once but twice and if i'd used them throttle bodies a 3rd time it would have happen again
and the injectors were good according to two different shops doing 2 different flow rates bench test ..but same results
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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Evilsports
Expert Class
Posts: 119
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posted March 23, 2009 08:52 AM
I would like to back up what Dubious said regarding the character of the mechanic in this particular situation. I just received an email from him offering to replace my pistons. ON HIS OWN TIME. Like I said before, situations like this can tell a lot about what someone is made of and anybody that goes out of there way to help someone else is ok in my books. That goes for you to Lyle. It's a shitty deal when something like this happens and the potential for hard feelings is always there. Having fellow bike enthusiasts stepping up and helping out like you have is appreciated. Give me a shout or drop me a line with whatever the total is for pistons, rings, and regulator and I'll square up with you.
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duncan
Expert Class
Posts: 341
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posted March 23, 2009 10:21 AM
LOL...1badzx12r I'm not the fool here. I have the option to turn my boost up to 25-26 lbs(453.8hp)if I want to. Thats the advantage of a built low comp motor. Stage 1's are stuck at 9-10 lbs because of fueling issues, clutch, tranny, rods etc. Yes it's expensive. Where do you get off saying you can't use that on the street? AMS 1000 lets me progress and ramp my boost levels nicely. My upper gears often see 20+ lbs of boost all the time with no spinning or wheeling here.
Low compression is a little tougher to launch with but if I'm close to a stage 1 or motor bike at the 1/8 it's all over with big boost on the back half.
I did have 5300 hard miles on my built low comp 01 busa with no problems, and the person I sold it to said it's running fine{although he doesn't hammer on it like I did}
I'll make a wager with you, If I'm present and looking I'll bet you $5000 dollars your bike doesn't make 325HP on 9 lbs(no boost creep} stock compression, stock bore and stroke. For your infomation I just asked Colby Adams what a stock comp 14 makes at 9 lbs(he's built 25 or 30 he told me) and he laughed when I told him what you said. I'll trust his oppinion on boosted 14's.
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted March 23, 2009 11:38 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 23 Mar 2009 19:47
quote:
LOL...1badzx12r I'm not the fool here. I have the option to turn my boost up to 25-26 lbs(453.8hp)if I want to. Thats the advantage of a built low comp motor. Stage 1's are stuck at 9-10 lbs because of fueling issues, clutch, tranny, rods etc. Yes it's expensive. Where do you get off saying you can't use that on the street? AMS 1000 lets me progress and ramp my boost levels nicely. My upper gears often see 20+ lbs of boost all the time with no spinning or wheeling here.
Low compression is a little tougher to launch with but if I'm close to a stage 1 or motor bike at the 1/8 it's all over with big boost on the back half.
I did have 5300 hard miles on my built low comp 01 busa with no problems, and the person I sold it to said it's running fine{although he doesn't hammer on it like I did}
I'll make a wager with you, If I'm present and looking I'll bet you $5000 dollars your bike doesn't make 325HP on 9 lbs(no boost creep} stock compression, stock bore and stroke. For your infomation I just asked Colby Adams what a stock comp 14 makes at 9 lbs(he's built 25 or 30 he told me) and he laughed when I told him what you said. I'll trust his oppinion on boosted 14's.
453.8 hp .. sounds low to me for 26lbs of boost . .. and i don't give a shitt what colby adams has to say ...he not over here doing my work and seeing the results .. but just think about it most builders.. build for safe and when it goes boom somebody 's on the internet bad mouthing .. but you can bring your 5k and your big mouth and i'm sure i'll find a dyno day for ya .. fair enough ..oh and don't cop out on my boost creep being i have nothing but an internal waste gate with no controller .. but thats the way i fly
OH AND THE ZX14 MOTOR IS 1 TOUGH MOFO ..cause i've put mine thru hell
http://www.muzzys.com/ZX14/ZX14Turbo/index.html
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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duncan
Expert Class
Posts: 341
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posted March 23, 2009 11:46 AM
To see 325hp your creeping to 12-13 lbs...lol. On 9 lbs you've lost that bet even on a happy dyno.
Sorry for the thread jacking here Dubious.
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Bad in Black
Expert Class
Posts: 348
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posted March 23, 2009 11:48 AM
quote:
Bad n Black,
All I was stating in my last post is not everyone has had the same luck with that kit, and to make a simple comment like there is nothing wrong with the kit and it is all the tuner, is not a true or accurrate comment.
There are so many things to watch at once on a dyno, and to try and make sense of multiple problems at handwhich happen in an instant, Boost, fuel pressure, fuel pressure rise on boost, oil pressure, ch temp, a/f ratio, duty cycle on 4 cylinders, egt's for 4 cylinders (if your a real good tuner). etc etc
One single individual will have a very hard time with all that info plus issues like spinning the tire, operating the bike, and dyno on top of it all to decipher multiple problems.
Then to have 2 critical mechanical issues happening and a bad map, all the while needing to figure out what they are, never exceeding 40% throttle and even that burns the pistons ....
If it had an external or adjustable wastegate, it could have been turned down to a safer level and work out the issues from there, but he did not have that option.
If the regulkator would have reacted to the adjustments he could have worked through that problem. If the map would have been safe at mid throttle settings it would have also helped the issue. Trying to tune a new kit on pump fuel is one thing I can never understand, and did notleave any margin for error.
Ther were many compounding factors in play there.
I know the mechanic personally. He is a good person, and would never purposely burn a motor. In addition to his moral chartacter, he has a reputation to uphold.
This is his lively hood.
We can all point fingers, I am pinting 2 of them right now.
I would blame the equipment equally as the mechanic, except knowing what issues he has had in the past with the same kits, the longer finger is aimed directly at the equipment.
Anyway, we all have opinions and I am glad we have the perspectives and input from all, I just have issue with people dissmissing the FACTS of one scenario, with the GOOD LUCK and FACTS of their own.
Thanks for the input from all.
I really do want to learn, and share.
I think that is why we all are here.
Thanks guys.... sincerely.
Lyle
BTW,
unless cyclelogic has updated their base map, don't stay in the midrange under boost for long, cause the one I have seen is so lean in the middle TP ranges, it will burn your pistons before you even have a chance to get started tuning it.
It looked to be a drag specific map to me.....100% throttle was close, and idle was safe.
Anyway I will no longer comment on this particular scenario.
Its not my bike, and not my business really.
I just hope they can get it resolved and everyone is fair and satisfied in the end.
Kevin, if want my stock pistons, they are mint, and I will GIVE them to you, in effort to help with all parties involved.
Kevin, make sure you order the rings asap, either stock or aftermarket pieces I have seen use the stock rings. You will need them.
I am going to the Kawi dealer today, so if you want I already have part numbers and will order them for you. You can paypal me the money and it will be done.
I will also sell you my SPA regulator that came with my atp kit. They go foe $130 USD, and I will sell it to you for $130 Canadian.
Just my gesture to all parties involved.
Fair enough Lyle.......you're an honest upstanding guy, I'll accept your feedback on the mechanic involved. The last thing I want to do is bash somebody who doesn't deserve it I had read Kevins whole post over on zx14.net, and was getting my perceptions from the tone of his post. I def don't want to assume tho It just seemed like the title and you're first post in this thread was a Cycle-Logic bashing....and I just didn't want somebody I know and highly respect morally, and product wise, getting wrongly bashed either I've dealt fairly extensively with Dave, and have a used kit in a box I'm staring at right now that I've very thoroughly inspected. It really is a VERY nice kit, Dave detailed it for me free of charge, and included a kawasaki oil filter, brand new exhaust gaskets, and a modified oil pan. The guy I bought the kit from loved it, and Dave has been the absolute best guy I've ever dealt with, and shipped this used kit packaged better than anything I've ever had shipped, perfectly detailed and checked out, and made sure EVERYTHING was tested and functioning perfectly. The whole experience was as top of the line as it gets. And this was a used kit that I had Dave go over for me. He wasn't even making his normal new kit profit. What other shop would even begin to consider doing that? Anyway Lyle its all good from my end
And Kevin, if you read this I have a flies out/8psi map from Cycle-logic that was made January of this year if you'd like a copy. Dave said it was a nice base map to work with and shouldn't need much tweaking. I've looked the numbers over and in my limited experience looks pretty good to me.........you're more than welcome to a copy if you want 
On a side note just so guys know.....the Cycle-Logic kit uses an IHI turbo directly off the top-of-the-line Subaru WRX. Its an excellent dual ball bearing set-up. The whole kit is actually a very pretty and well made set-up, with stainless and aluminum everything. The stainless header is beautifully welded And as an option Dave supplies a huge diameter stainless meg full exhaust that fits perfect and looks awesome
I did tons of research on turbo kits trying to decide who to use, and which bike to boost, my 14 or busa. Believe it or not the worst spoken about was Mr. Turbo. But I still would've went with them becuase they use good parts, and its really the final tuners job to get the bike running right for the road anyways. Bob has had almost exclusively Mr. Turbo stuff....and even tho he said there were some issues here and there, thats whats going on his new ZRX
As long as a kit comes with good parts....and no history of cracking exhaust manifolds etc.....I think it would be hard to go too wrong with any of them. I still think in the end its up to the installer/tuner to make sure it all comes together right tho.......whether that tuner is a professional, or me in my garage
quote:
Billeason wrote:
I guess im one of the so called experts that helped rotten with his turbo huh! I actually asked him if he changed the tb completely to eliminate the injecters. He told me he had them tested and eventually changed tb's anyway and it ran fine from there. I thought i had helped the man,and maybe im not who you are referring to but i was on the phone a lot with rob when this was going on. My take on this.if you run over 7lbs on 14 with the shitty gas thats at the pump now days you either pull timing or pistons its your choice but i have done a ton of them for guys that wont leave the boost alone..........Bill
Bill I don't think he was referring to you He said he physically took the bike to 2 diff guys, and had probs with both. I think he said eventually with your suggestions he did swap the TB and found out the injector prob. That was after the first shop set him up supposedly and sent him on his way, just to have his bike melt down right after he left. He had similiar result from the second shop. Neither one of them were able to diagnose his injector prob  so much for those "professional performance shops"  It took you over the phone to do what his 2 local shops couldn't........kinda makes me sick to my stomach actually 
One good thing is he's running the hell outta his bike and having a ball now
It really goes to show that a good turbo bike is about the set-up Who knows I might be giving you a call myself
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted March 23, 2009 11:54 AM
quote:
To see 325hp your creeping to 12-13 lbs...lol. On 9 lbs you've lost that bet even on a happy dyno.
Sorry for the thread jacking here Dubious.
sorry wrong not 12 to 13 but 11lb .. i didn't lose nothing ..i told you i'm set at 9lbs and 325hp ...what part of that you not understand .. BOTTOM LINE IS I MAKE 325HP ON A STOCK MOTOR ZX14 ..
Even muzzy shows when you install his stage2 to 20 to 25lbs only need adding turbo pistons ..rest of motor is fine ..
and his dyno numbers are low
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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Bad in Black
Expert Class
Posts: 348
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posted March 23, 2009 12:00 PM
quote:
WOW ...... im headed for the "smackhouse"
I think Mongo's posted some new boooobies to look at !
Bob
This old threads gotten kinda lively hasn't it? lol I love it!!!! 
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duncan
Expert Class
Posts: 341
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posted March 23, 2009 12:06 PM
LOL... I told myself I'm through but this is humerious now.
1. Ok you admit boost creep great. I never said you couldn't make 325hp on a stock motor 14, JUST NOT AT 9 LBS.
2. Your wrong again. 25 lbs and you need secondaries of some sort, Stock injectors won't handle 20-25 lbs not even close, rods are in big trouble, clutch is also gone.
3. I'm sure everybodies dyno #'s are low compared to your fantasy #'s.
I'D QUIT NOW YOUR IN OVER YOUR HEAD...LOL
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted March 23, 2009 12:15 PM
i didn't even think of you bill even working on my bike .. we talk and look at plugs and got to the part of my ecu was bad or bad injector wiring ... but that was after two toasted pistons ..
i found the fix all on my own by putting the bike back 100% stock and working until all four plugs matched .. by changing parts 1 at a time and testing ..
my bike had a problem and NOBODY has been able to tell me what its cause was ..
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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Bad in Black
Expert Class
Posts: 348
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posted March 23, 2009 12:16 PM
Yep we can debate points and have fun with it In fact for me that IS half the fun In the end we're talking about turbo bikes that most of us currently ride.......or soon will be (like me when I get off my lazy ass lol) imo it doesn't get any better than a boosted bike Except maybe good food followed by good sex
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Bad in Black
Expert Class
Posts: 348
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posted March 23, 2009 12:19 PM
quote:
i didn't even think of you bill even working on my bike .. we talk and look at plugs and got to the part of my ecu was bad or bad injector wiring ... but that was after two toasted pistons ..
i found the fix all on my own by putting the bike back 100% stock and working until all four plugs matched .. by changing parts 1 at a time and testing ..
my bike had a problem and NOBODY has been able to tell me what its cause was ..
Rob the right shop would have been able to diagnose that injector prob for you.............but like you said, there just aint that many good shops around I'm sorry you had to through the bs. But Thanks for sharing.....you've given me some great advice on the kit And def some things to watch out for
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted March 23, 2009 12:22 PM
you can read duncan
..i posted muzzy's link ...GO READ IT .. AND YES YOUR RIGHT i did forget to say injectors along with pistons ...
BUT LET ME TELL YOU AGAIN ZX14 AND BUSA are 2 differant creatures ..the zx14 injectors can flow more than a busa stock injectors ...you busa guys have to buy s2000 injectors to match zx14 injectors ..
you don't even have a zx14 to compare with or work on ..SO STFU
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted March 23, 2009 12:30 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 23 Mar 2009 20:32
quote:
quote:
..
Rob the right shop would have been able to diagnose that injector prob for you
let me tell you again ...it was not an injector problem .. reason ijectors were flow tested twice and when installed i change injectors to see if lean spot changed and it did not change ..
the rail was open and fine ...the hose was fine and both parts were replaced .. it was something with #4 throttle body ..but i changed the whole assemble out ..
when i changed the throttle bodies out i was testing it to see if it was electric that was causeing it ..like ecu or wiring and following bills advice on the ecu .. but it fix itself after throttlebodies were changed
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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duncan
Expert Class
Posts: 341
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posted March 23, 2009 12:41 PM
Wrong again, I have a bone stock 07 zx 14 parked right next to my 08 turbo busa. Eventually I'll boost it thats why this thread and similar ones interest me.
I fully believe the 14 is a great platform to turbo, Velocity ran one at Commerce last year and Barry was very impressed with the power output{slightly higher than the busa} 7.29 at 198mph is fast!!!!! I WONDER WHY THEY REPLACED THE INJECTORS, RODS, CLUTCH, PISTONS AND UNDERCUT THE TRANNY yet Muzzy says you don't have to? 25 LBS OF BOOST EQUALS APX 450-470 HP. I'd build my 14 to the limit for insurance purposes.
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Bad in Black
Expert Class
Posts: 348
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posted March 23, 2009 01:09 PM
For boosting a stock motored bike with a stage 1 kit, the 14 seems to be the best way to go for highest power and best durability. Thats the reason I chose it over boosting my busa. The busa may well get boosted as well down the road tho We're starting from opposite ends eh Duncan? lol
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted March 23, 2009 02:12 PM
quote:
, Velocity ran one at Commerce last year and Barry was very impressed with the power output.
funny when i talk 2 him 2 years ago ..barry said zx14s and zx12's weren't worth turboing rambling about the fukk-up airbox design ..and said buy a busa .. guess barry changed his mine..
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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