gumbybob
Novice Class
Posts: 73
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posted March 20, 2009 02:16 AM
slip ons vs full system
This has surely been covered before but I couldn't find it here.
In general, with an apppropriate map, will slip ons give more low-mid range power for average street riding than a full system but a full system gives more top end power?
I "think" this may be true but not sure.
I spend very little time in the upper ranges of RPM when riding on the street so I'm thinking I would realize more power difference with a slip on.
Please help.
  
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00Busa
Expert Class
Trying to go FASTER !
Posts: 270
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posted March 20, 2009 02:54 AM
You are not going get much of anything with the slip-ons but a little more noise. Sure, they will make a little more than stock but not close to a full system. With the S-Meg I picked up HP & TQ from 4000 to redline ( you will need a PC to optimize the gain), plus you get an additional weight savings.
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'00 Busa / '06 14 /
IT AINT BRAGGING, IF YOU CAN BACK IT UP !
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eklipse636
Needs a life
ZX-14
Posts: 6046
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posted March 20, 2009 03:09 AM
If your spending the money, Imo I'd go ahead and get a full system. Instead of little hp gains out of a slip on, you will get a lot out of a full system!
____________
Best: 60ft 1.351 1/8 5.68 mph 123.98 1/4
8.89 mph 151.32
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted March 20, 2009 03:22 AM
with the 14, there isn't much difference in price with the slip-ons vs a full system. However, in the power dept there is a large difference. Full systems will outperform a slip-on system greatly! The only reason imo to get slip-ons is if you REALLY REALLY like the dual look...... which I don't, so it was a no brainer for me.
Good companies
Brocks
yosh
ti-force
muzzy's
Tsukigi
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LAB3
Needs a job
Posts: 2977
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posted March 20, 2009 04:00 AM
If you are going to purchased new go a full system. Ivans site has some charts and you will see the difference. Slip on's, PCIII, map had More mid range HPand Torque from 3 to 5K RPM than all the full systems tested on Ivans, but after 5K RPM there is more HP to be had and at a higher RPM. I was shifting at 10 and they were shifting at 11. I tried ahifting at 11 but they would catch me quicker, Look at the dyno charts done with the same bike on the same day. Not so much Peak HP(different dyno's will have way different peak #s) but look at the power curves and at where the RPM the slip on's start to drop off. Shift at 10K
I purchased my 07 used and it had Muzzy slip on's and all the bolt on's with fly's out and mapped. I have done
high gear roll on's with with my several friends with ZX-14 and full systems. All are geared the same and I could pull away when we hit the gas in 6th at 70 MPH and I would pull away until about 130 then they would pull up and pass. I also weigh more than them. We also did the same at 60 in 2nd gear and roll on. I will pull out and at the back side of each gear they would catch me then at 130 they were past me.
This week end we will do our early morning ride and now I have a full system(used) and will see what happens, :-) Thanks Shane for the exhaust and map...Great deal... I am going to weigh the slip on's and see how much weight I saved by going to a 421. Another plus.
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John F
Parking Attendant
Posts: 21
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posted March 20, 2009 05:36 AM
I have an '08 that is stock and have been struggling with the whole full or slip-on issue myself. I don't race and I'm not concerned about more power. I am concerned about how the bike acts through the whole rpm range, and I'm concerned that a full system may cause a real midrange flat spot. Will a good map take care of that? Also, how will the midrange act with slip-ons, both with and without a map?
Thanks!
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slates
Expert Class
Posts: 377
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posted March 20, 2009 06:03 AM
quote:
I have an '08 that is stock and have been struggling with the whole full or slip-on issue myself. I don't race and I'm not concerned about more power. I am concerned about how the bike acts through the whole rpm range, and I'm concerned that a full system may cause a real midrange flat spot. Will a good map take care of that? Also, how will the midrange act with slip-ons, both with and without a map?
Thanks!
Jon,
With most slip-ons, you will not need a map. They will give a 3-5hp boost over stock and save you some weight. A full system will save you 30+ lbs, give you lots more power throughout the whole range, and a good map will make sure the bike has the proper air-fuel ratio with a smooth power band.
I'd recommend Brocks for his support and great map service. Please read all of Brock's zx-14 diaries to see the differences in stock, full, maps, flies, tre, low-end performance gains, etc. They are on his website and are on Dragbike.com
____________
black zx14 - Brock's Gen3 Carbon, PCIII, no secondaries, Carrozzeria wheels, Sato rearsets, Pazzo levers, GPR V4 steering damper, Puig windscreen, Tiger Racing chain guard
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blackbullet76
Pro
Posts: 1134
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posted March 20, 2009 06:44 AM
The maps you get from brocks are awesome. He breaks down all the mods needed to run the certain maps. It's not hard at all to pick one right for you. And in the future, if you do another mod, you already have a map for it! Can't beat that in my opinion. I got 8 maps with my s-meg system.
____________
2007 ZX-14 black
Brocks s-meg exhaust
PCIII w/track map
BMC race filter
Flies removed
16 tooth front sprocket
Speedohealer
APE cam chain tensioner
Vortex rearsets
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LAB3
Needs a job
Posts: 2977
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posted March 20, 2009 06:51 AM
quote:
quote:
I have an '08 that is stock and have been struggling with the whole full or slip-on issue myself. I don't race and I'm not concerned about more power. I am concerned about how the bike acts through the whole rpm range, and I'm concerned that a full system may cause a real midrange flat spot. Will a good map take care of that? Also, how will the midrange act with slip-ons, both with and without a map?
Thanks!
Jon,
With most slip-ons, you will not need a map. They will give a 3-5hp boost over stock and save you some weight. A full system will save you 30+ lbs, give you lots more power throughout the whole range, and a good map will make sure the bike has the proper air-fuel ratio with a smooth power band.
I'd recommend Brocks for his support and great map service. Please read all of Brock's zx-14 diaries to see the differences in stock, full, maps, flies, tre, low-end performance gains, etc. They are on his website and are on Dragbike.com
+1 I agree I was looking at a Brock Gen3 Street Smart with 20 inch Carbon fiber oval muffler, Great Customer service and maps and his Gen3 CF has no flat spot in mid range
below stock #s like some full systems that hit Great about 5K RPM. Just expensive if you purchase new. I found good used full system used with a custom map for 1/2 what a new system is.
Cool new 14 you have, ride it like it is and get use to it and keep looking you Will find a good used Brock Full system or other brand and save $$. I waited and the second I saw
a system that was going for sale ( here)I Paypal minutes after I read here he was changing to a different Race exhaust system. Now if you are Rich or a Really Good Job....A new Brocks or M14 Muzzy full system, PCIII USB and new map.... with a 08 just leave secondary fly's in ,you'r ECU opens them faster than the 06/07. Smoother power band about 10 more HP. If you go with Muzzy call and ask for Dave Turner, or leave message for him. Great guy like Brock. Will call back and answer all your questions, Call them Both. Call Ivan and ask about slip on's too. Take notes if you are new to the ZX-14.
I
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted March 20, 2009 08:54 AM
Don't forget to factor in the weight saving with a full system, it's about power to weight ratio after all.
____________
Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted March 20, 2009 09:40 AM
get the full system, and don't look back unless you want to see your buddies
____________
2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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Rook
Pro
Posts: 1125
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posted March 20, 2009 09:46 AM
 Edited By: Rook on 20 Mar 2009 17:47
quote:
......with a 08 just leave secondary fly's in ,you'r ECU opens them faster than the 06/07. ......... Take notes if you are new to the ZX-14.
After removing secondaries, my stock 08 will dig in a little harder under less throttle. It is hardly noticeable during normal street use. The gain is all in 1st gear because once you take off, you're probably not going to be in the 3K rpm neighborhood again unless you are riding pretty soft. If you are riding that gently, you are not trying to go fast anyway.
Last Fall's final rides resulted in minor tire bounce (it was starting to try to wheelie)at ~8K rpm in first gear. Just a week ago under ~half throttle or a bit more maybe, The front was off the ground in first at ~5-6K rpm and stayed up into second. That's about where I decided I had enough for now. Seems possible that the flyless take-off had something to do with increased power at higher rpm. Similar ambient temp/humidity on the Fall day vs. now, 30 degreed F and dry.
My advice is leave the flies in until the warranty is expired then take 'em out if you want. If you're doing WOT in first gear and you're still not satisfied, that's a reason to remove flies on a G2. Just be aware, you already have just about all the power you are going to get stock. The flies are open at just above 3K in first gear and thet stay open as long as you stay above 3K which you will if you are going fast.
Rook
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted March 20, 2009 09:49 AM
Edited By: bigdtd on 20 Mar 2009 18:01
pull the flies, too don't mess around
____________
2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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LAB3
Needs a job
Posts: 2977
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posted March 20, 2009 09:57 AM
quote:
get the full system, and don't look back unless you want to see your buddies
YES............ save the $$ you will do like some of us and just change to a full 421 system
after you get use to the 14. :-) The more I ride my 07 the better I like it..:-)
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Old Guy
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted March 20, 2009 10:41 AM
I bought a full system after researching the same thought.
Got mine here used 1/2 price.
Theres a cat w/ Brocks alien head plus pcIII in classified.
Looks to be good deal if he still has it.
Be the route I'd go if you can live with noise!
Cant recommend 421 system enuf!!
Talk with sticks about Muzzys.
____________
Living the good life...,
On a XZ !!!!!
Tsukigi stainless full system
pcIII w/custom map
NO freakin flies!!
GP suspension forks
Penske rear shock
Rich's custom seat
And a whole bunch of other stuff.
97 zx6r full race bike with all the
good stuff
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hoopie
Parking Attendant
Posts: 18
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posted March 20, 2009 10:44 AM
quote:
This has surely been covered before but I couldn't find it here.
In general, with an apppropriate map, will slip ons give more low-mid range power for average street riding than a full system but a full system gives more top end power?
I "think" this may be true but not sure.
I spend very little time in the upper ranges of RPM when riding on the street so I'm thinking I would realize more power difference with a slip on.
Please help.
It depends on the full exhaust. Some full exhaust will make more peak HP but sacrifice power down low. Some are also much louder than others to make higher HP. Pick what is important to you such as; looks, weight, style, power, cost, noise, etc... then pick the exhaust that matches your priorties. Dont buy what people tell you to buy, buy what you want. You have to ride it!
Slipons on an 06 07 is like a full exhaust with a bit more back pressure because it has no cat in the header. Slip ons on the 08 09 are for looks and sound quality with some peak hp increase as it will lean out the top RPM where it is really rich.
____________
08 zx14
03 r1
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DogoZX
Expert Class
Posts: 348
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posted March 20, 2009 12:00 PM
^^^^^
What he said.
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John F
Parking Attendant
Posts: 21
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posted March 20, 2009 08:40 PM
Thanks for the advice fellas.
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