Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
|
posted April 20, 2010 07:39 AM
quote:
Where did you find 50mm TB? How big of a motor is this for?
We are having them custom made to go with the big stage 3 head and cams..... stay tuned.
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
   
|
northernkaw
Expert Class
Posts: 215
|
posted September 12, 2010 11:13 AM
got a set of 47s on RICKEY GADSONS 1530 motor gained 26 hp ( on different dynos). pick up 5 mph
|
Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
|
posted September 12, 2010 11:22 AM
I am sending mine out on Monday, Harry. We'll see how they work mated with the Competition CNC head. 
|
06redzx14
Pro
Posts: 1022
|
posted September 12, 2010 11:50 AM
what's the cost on the 47s? estimate on power for stock bottom end ported head?
____________
06 alien head, no flies, PC+hub, 16/45 44 43, air shifter, dry shot
|
Swiftkart
Expert Class
Posts: 349
|
posted September 12, 2010 03:15 PM
Finally got mine on the dyno, they tuned the bike with the stock 44's first to get a base with the Competition CNC zx14 ss milled head package, then put the 47's on and picked up 6 hp and 7 ft lb over the 44's, the surpise was the bike gained from 4,000 all the way up top over the 44's, I'm sure the gains would be even bigger on a well ported head since I had a good gain with just a valve job and head mill. thanks Harry and Jim,
____________
2006 ZX14, Brock CT-Meg, PC, ignition module, E85, 214 lbs suited, 8.96@152.32 1.46 60'
|
KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted September 12, 2010 04:47 PM
quote:
Finally got mine on the dyno, they tuned the bike with the stock 44's first to get a base with the Competition CNC zx14 ss milled head package, then put the 47's on and picked up 6 hp and 7 ft lb over the 44's, the surpise was the bike gained from 4,000 all the way up top over the 44's, I'm sure the gains would be even bigger on a well ported head since I had a good gain with just a valve job and head mill. thanks Harry and Jim,
nice!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
|
posted September 12, 2010 04:51 PM
quote:
Finally got mine on the dyno, they tuned the bike with the stock 44's first to get a base with the Competition CNC zx14 ss milled head package, then put the 47's on and picked up 6 hp and 7 ft lb over the 44's, the surpise was the bike gained from 4,000 all the way up top over the 44's, I'm sure the gains would be even bigger on a well ported head since I had a good gain with just a valve job and head mill. thanks Harry and Jim,
Swiftkart What did you get with just the SS head Vs your stock head ? I never got to test the SS head we got from Jim and i'd really like to know what i missed ..
6 hp and 7 Tq going from 44s to 47s that is a good bump for the bucks ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
|
Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
|
posted September 12, 2010 06:42 PM
 Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 13 Sep 2010 02:43
It seems the bigger the motor the more power is gaind as you would expect. also the better the head and cams the more power also.
Lee, Rickey got 205 hp with the ss head. Brian at quantam built the engine. Rickey won SS last year with that head.
Cecil at HTP just built a 2 x 5 with our head and cams and 47mm throttle bodies. It just made 266 this weekend. Were starting to get up to where we need to be to compete with the 1650 busas in LSR and drag racing.
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
|
KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted September 12, 2010 07:26 PM
266!!!!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
ZX14Mike
Zone Head
Posts: 891
|
posted September 12, 2010 10:10 PM
Y2K.................how much for a setup like Shane's with the 47 mm throttle bodies and a Competion CNC ported head?
|
ZX14Mike
Zone Head
Posts: 891
|
posted September 12, 2010 10:12 PM
BTW............these have been some interesting threads..........its great to finally see some motor mods for the ZX that add significant horsepower like the Busa has had for a long time.
|
Swiftkart
Expert Class
Posts: 349
|
posted September 13, 2010 07:38 AM
quote:
quote:
Finally got mine on the dyno, they tuned the bike with the stock 44's first to get a base with the Competition CNC zx14 ss milled head package, then put the 47's on and picked up 6 hp and 7 ft lb over the 44's, the surpise was the bike gained from 4,000 all the way up top over the 44's, I'm sure the gains would be even bigger on a well ported head since I had a good gain with just a valve job and head mill. thanks Harry and Jim,
Swiftkart What did you get with just the SS head Vs your stock head ? I never got to test the SS head we got from Jim and i'd really like to know what i missed ..
6 hp and 7 Tq going from 44s to 47s that is a good bump for the bucks ..
I got a 10 hp increase over my base with the 44's and ss package set at Jim's cam spec's, 180 SAE to 190 SAE 105 ft lb on E85, might make more power on some real good oxygenated race gas, 196 SAE 112 ft lb with 47's, and 203 STD 115 ft lb
____________
2006 ZX14, Brock CT-Meg, PC, ignition module, E85, 214 lbs suited, 8.96@152.32 1.46 60'
|
Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
|
posted September 13, 2010 07:41 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 13 Sep 2010 15:42
Also, keep in mind that the SS head doesn't have any porting work...just a mill and valve job, typically. So, you could see more hp with a cnc port.
|
Swiftkart
Expert Class
Posts: 349
|
posted September 13, 2010 08:53 AM
I would say the 47's on a ported head with stock bore and stroke would do a little over 200 SAE easy
____________
2006 ZX14, Brock CT-Meg, PC, ignition module, E85, 214 lbs suited, 8.96@152.32 1.46 60'
|
Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
|
posted September 13, 2010 08:55 AM
quote:
I would say the 47's on a ported head with stock bore and stroke would do a little over 200 SAE easy
That's what I am hoping for, around 200 SAE, on oxygenated race fuel. That would be a gain of about 15 or so hp for me.
|
smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
|
posted September 13, 2010 09:18 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Finally got mine on the dyno, they tuned the bike with the stock 44's first to get a base with the Competition CNC zx14 ss milled head package, then put the 47's on and picked up 6 hp and 7 ft lb over the 44's, the surpise was the bike gained from 4,000 all the way up top over the 44's, I'm sure the gains would be even bigger on a well ported head since I had a good gain with just a valve job and head mill. thanks Harry and Jim,
Swiftkart What did you get with just the SS head Vs your stock head ? I never got to test the SS head we got from Jim and i'd really like to know what i missed ..
6 hp and 7 Tq going from 44s to 47s that is a good bump for the bucks ..
I got a 10 hp increase over my base with the 44's and ss package set at Jim's cam spec's, 180 SAE to 190 SAE 105 ft lb on E85, might make more power on some real good oxygenated race gas, 196 SAE 112 ft lb with 47's, and 203 STD 115 ft lb
Gee what i'm i missing here ...You had 180 with the stock head and with jims head you got 190 ... You added the 47s and got 196 ... I'm i reading that right ? We got 184 with just 20 off the head and a little work under the seat on intake side only , that was a 13 HP gain ..Jims head is milled much much more than our was and it had work under the seat on both valves and you got 10 hp ? I had one of jims heads setting on my work bench and i could clearly see it had more work done than the one i had done by a friend ..
By chance were the dyno numbers done on different dynos ? Jims head had to make more HP than ours did ...No way can you mill a head that much more than we did and not have more HP than ours ended up with .. Maybe your tune on the e85 is off and that is why it was only a 10 hp gain ..
Don't get me wrong here , the 196 you ended up with is killer and i would be very happy with that number ..I just don't understand the 10 HP gain from a stock head to an SS head ..
Please , i'm NOT bashing , just trying to understand why.
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
|
smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
|
posted September 13, 2010 09:22 AM
Back on track here .. Those 47s TBs are on my to do list for sure .. Nice bang for the buck and it will be nice to have them when i add more mods down the road .. 
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
|
Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
|
posted September 13, 2010 09:32 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 13 Sep 2010 17:37
I'm not sure I understand what you are asking him, Lee? I don't think Jim's SS head, a true SS head at least, has any bowl work. Jim told me he can do some bowl work or whatever, if it is not going be run in SS class.
Also, Jim can do a few different milling options. For example, mine has a flat .030, but they can do a 60/40 angle mill for max compression.
So, in that case Swiftkart would be looking at a gain of 10 hp from compression and a valve job. Am I missing something? Hard to compare results without knowing the exact configuration, even down to the valve spring seat pressures.
|
smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
|
posted September 13, 2010 09:41 AM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 13 Sep 2010 17:45
quote:
I'm not sure I understand what you are asking him, Lee? I don't think Jim's SS head, a true SS head at least, has any bowl work. Jim told me he can do some bowl work or whatever, if it is not going be run in SS class.
Also, Jim can do a few different milling options. For example, mine has a flat .030, but they can do a 60/40 angle mill for max compression.
So, in that case you would be looking at a gain of 10 hp from compression and a valve job. Am I missing something? Hard to compare results without knowing the exact configuration, even down to the valve spring seat pressures.
Jims SS had a plunge cut under the valves seats , much deeper than the work we did ,, Jim head is milled 60/40, that is more than twice as much as ours ... It has to make more power than ours .. There is NO way it could make less HP than ours .. His 10 hp gain has to have something to do with his E85 tune .. Or he has his cam timing way way off .. Trust me it's not hard to get the cam timming off ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
|
Swiftkart
Expert Class
Posts: 349
|
posted September 13, 2010 11:26 AM
Edited By: Swiftkart on 13 Sep 2010 19:44
The head is a ss package, no bowl work done on mine, he did blend the intake boots to the port, shim the stock springs and that's it from talking with him, 60/40 mill, cams spot on at 108 in 102 ex as told to run, same dyno as before, keep in mind you went .020 mill with completely different cam timing, like 104 in and 106 ex or something so that could have something to do with it , 108/102 may not be I deal for me and like I said when I posted earlier, some good oxygenated race gas may make more power so yes the E85 could have something to do with it or even the timing which I plan on going back and playing with soon, I hope I can find more hp that would be great!
____________
2006 ZX14, Brock CT-Meg, PC, ignition module, E85, 214 lbs suited, 8.96@152.32 1.46 60'
|
Swiftkart
Expert Class
Posts: 349
|
posted September 13, 2010 11:43 AM
I just spoke with Jim and he said some MRX01 would wake it up so I will get a can and have it tuned to see.
____________
2006 ZX14, Brock CT-Meg, PC, ignition module, E85, 214 lbs suited, 8.96@152.32 1.46 60'
|
smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
|
posted September 13, 2010 12:22 PM
Swiftkart Keep us posted on how she runs on the track ..And thanks for the info on the TBs .. I bet at 196 HP it's going to be a hand full to ride But a buttload of fun !
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
|
Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
|
posted September 13, 2010 01:25 PM
We are typically getting feed back of mid 190's to a little over 200 for the SS head. But as you guys all know dyno setup and bike prep and even dynos them selves can vary by 10 hp.
Swiftkart, you may want to bring the exhaust cam timing up 4 degrees if you have the piston to valve clearance. 102 might be a tad low but if thats all the clearance you have then.....
Shane is right, we dont do and hand blending on a "supersport" head if its going to run in the SS class. We dont want anyone getting disqualified as they dont allow "porting" only a valve job and a resurface. But some customers dont run in the ss class so they want some hand blending in the bowls.
This 196 hp is the first E85 ss head zx14 numbers we have seen. So I dont know what to compare it to. I can tell you that Rickey was running "good" fuel when he was running that zx14 last year in SS.
Ignition timing is an area where most tunners get lazy. Many dont seem to have a good procedure for making a timing map. I've explained my procedure on here a few times and its very important to eliminate the variables so you know what timing is working and what isnt.
Its rare for any bike not to pick up power from advancing the ignition timing map above 8000 rpm at 100% throttle. It needs to be done in several steps and takes as much time as fuel mapping. Most tuners dont want to be bothered it seems. When you increase the bore size you almost certainly need to advance the timing.
The E85 fuel is an uncharted area so I dont know what an engine running on E85 might like for ignition advance.
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
|
01smokes
Needs a job
Posts: 2243
|
posted September 13, 2010 03:59 PM
quote:
We are typically getting feed back of mid 190's to a little over 200 for the SS head. But as you guys all know dyno setup and bike prep and even dynos them selves can vary by 10 hp.
Swiftkart, you may want to bring the exhaust cam timing up 4 degrees if you have the piston to valve clearance. 102 might be a tad low but if thats all the clearance you have then.....
Shane is right, we dont do and hand blending on a "supersport" head if its going to run in the SS class. We dont want anyone getting disqualified as they dont allow "porting" only a valve job and a resurface. But some customers dont run in the ss class so they want some hand blending in the bowls.
This 196 hp is the first E85 ss head zx14 numbers we have seen. So I dont know what to compare it to. I can tell you that Rickey was running "good" fuel when he was running that zx14 last year in SS.
Ignition timing is an area where most tunners get lazy. Many dont seem to have a good procedure for making a timing map. I've explained my procedure on here a few times and its very important to eliminate the variables so you know what timing is working and what isnt.
Its rare for any bike not to pick up power from advancing the ignition timing map above 8000 rpm at 100% throttle. It needs to be done in several steps and takes as much time as fuel mapping. Most tuners dont want to be bothered it seems. When you increase the bore size you almost certainly need to advance the timing.
The E85 fuel is an uncharted area so I dont know what an engine running on E85 might like for ignition advance.
from what i understand is it LOVES timing E85 is becoming a big thing over here and they are making big power with the timing cranked up
____________
PayPal, vigilart22@yahoo.com
Email, artvgl@yahoo.com
|
smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
|
posted September 13, 2010 04:25 PM
from what i understand is it LOVES timing E85 is becoming a big thing over here and they are making big power with the timing cranked up
We tried adding timing to Roys zx14 that runs on E85 and we got nothing...Remember Roys is a 1530 motor and it just may not want more timing .. We also could have added timing in the wrong spots of the curve .. A stock motor may respond to more timing where the 1530 motor didn't .. I can't E85 around here to test or i would ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC