HiMile14
Expert Class
Posts: 424
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posted January 11, 2009 05:11 PM
The Economy and the ZX-14
Good Day All,
I hope those who are raw ZX-14 motorcyclist will forgive my thread; it’s more about “the Economy” than “the Bike”.
I wanted to send a heads up to those who feel my threads are somewhat boring. Well I just got back from a large dealership in Central Florida (3 Major Japanese brands) and for the first time I seriously think we may lose up to 50% of the dealerships across America. The person I talked to told me that since the beginning of the year they have sold 1 (ONE) bike. Keep in mind in Florida we ride year round. I should have asked what the norm might be for the first 10 days of January, I know it’s a normally slow time but I suspect this year is slower than normal. I counted 5 sales people on the floor and when I was selling we worked 2 shifts. Even if there were only 1 shift and 5 people well this is going to make for pretty tight paychecks. Making matters worse the other major Japanese brand they don't sell they can't finance. Additional savings to the store, No More TV's, Coffee areas and I suspect anything else that can be cut will be.
Problem 1:
I think at the start of 2008 most knew the economy was slowing. I’m no economist but I’m old enough to know that economies rise and fall its natural. But I also know when supply and demand is played with the end result can be disastrous. This time around there are so many factors that played into the fall of the economy. I feel the number one factor was our government refused to do anything about China and India’s subsidizing fuel. Not that we can do anything about what these countries do, but we can control what can be done here. These countries kept their economies rolling because their governments were selling fuel well below market prices. Because of this here in the US bid the cost of a barrel of oil up because it could not get enough oil to support our demand. Last July both China and India stopped the subsidizing (or in China’s case in part) increased the amount they charged for fuel. I had a story (sorry I can’t find it now) said that China was charging 2.00 per gallon while we were paying 4.00 per gallon, then in July they bumped it up to 2.80 a gallon. India in the article I believe went back to Market price. Both Countries economies slowed as expected and oil retreated as expected. But for the US and most of the world the damage was done.
The Solution would have had our government understand what happens when the supply and demand is screwed with and be ready to do something about it. My solution would have been, open up the coast-line and any other area to drilling. Even if not one piece of dirt was drilled the perception would have prevented the oil markets from going as high as it did. You know in Washington Perception is more important than actually doing anything about the problem.
Problem 2: About the bailouts allow be to simplify; we all know someone who is buried in debt. His/Her Solution is not going further into debt I think most would agree this in fact I believe it would be the worst thing to do. Yet here we are more bailout money. I do not come from the left or the right I think both parties are the problem. Stop Spending would be a great start. Leadership is not giving away money, it is knowing when we have spent too much.
Bringing home my point, I am considering buying a new/used bike a year earlier then normal provided my job has no issues. Of coarse the ZX-14 is near the top of the list. I know many here think of Dealerships as Stealerships but in the hope to keep these guys around a while I’m encouraging you all to please try to support them. I used to think that many businesses were in “Survival Mode”. Today I think we are one step over the line of survival.
If this is not supported in your town (and I hope I'm wrong) please feel free to write me the good news. In the end I suspect I'm dead nuts on.
Trying to save the world one thread at a time.
Rob
02 VFR 118,074 miles
07 VFR 25,702 miles
PS If I got too political forgive me. When I'm under the weather and have too much time on my hands well this is what happens.
  
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fastnotch2002
Novice Class
Posts: 40
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posted January 11, 2009 05:52 PM
bought my wifes 08 Busa at the local dealership!
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Bawls
Needs a job
re-learning to ride
Posts: 2701
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posted January 11, 2009 06:03 PM
bought my zx14 at the local dealership back in texas... I will say this though. Marking up the prices of oil, tires, clothing, etc is not going to get them any business and if they think that I'm going to go to them when I can get the same product for a lot cheaper price somewhere else then they're sadly mistaken. All they have to do is search for 15 minutes on the internet to figure out why they don't sale much merchandise. For example. If I go to the local motorcycle shop and try to buy a Shinko 003 stealth in soft compound, I have to pay roughly $150. I can get the same tire shipped to my door in 3 days for roughly 130 dollars.
That being said... I now live in san diego, and there is never any shortage of retards willing to pay ridiculous prices for bikes here. I've seen gsxr-750's sold for 15000 dollars after taxes and all aplicable "fees" lmfao.
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Best 60ft: 1.42
Best 1/8th: 5.97
Best 1/8th MPH: 119
Brockland Police Badge # 001
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SteveWFL
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted January 11, 2009 06:16 PM
Hi Mile, its good to see you post again.
Dealers in in Tampa are slow too, and I fear some of them will do like the local Chevy chain (8 dealerships) between Tampa and Plant City and start locking the doors.
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2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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HiMile14
Expert Class
Posts: 424
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posted January 12, 2009 03:40 AM
Bawls says,
That being said... I now live in san diego, and there is never any shortage of retards willing to pay ridiculous prices for bikes here. I've seen gsxr-750's sold for 15000 dollars after taxes and all aplicable "fees" lmfao.
I know the types well. I guess because I'm always needing something I price out the larger items. For example in Lakeland tires are cheaper than in Orlando. I need a new tire every 3 months so I pay full price in Lakeland but they install the tire on the bike for free. I normally buy them lunch at a local Mc Donald's and I'm still about 25 dollars ahead over a tire bought in Orlando.
My point about the local dealerships if they treat you right buy the little stuff from them, oil filters, oil, air filters. Things under 50 dollars are normally marked up 10%. Note the key here is, "If they treat you right." If not well maybe it's best they go away.
Rob
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Stu64
Zone Head
Posts: 548
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posted January 12, 2009 04:43 AM
I've been bypassing all the fancy local dealerships for years now,they build these fancy dealerships on prime real estate,then won't give you a deal at all on MRSP. Claim there isn't much of a mark up...bullshit. I go to Chicago dealerships only 70 miles away and their willing to cut bike prices most times over $1000.
As far as car dealerships i think we could use a few less of them and their lying ass salesmen. Again they build these BIG fancy dealerships then act like their not making any money,now were suppose to feel sorry for them.......Baaahhhaaaawaaaa.
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted January 12, 2009 05:11 AM
 Edited By: BobC on 12 Jan 2009 13:32
It's always tempting to go to the big cities where the larger volume of sales allows the dealer to sell below MRSP.
Fine, no problem there if that's what you want, just don't expect your local, small-town shop to be in business when you want spares, servicing or somewhere to hang out and meet the boys.
Dealer's who are desperate to turn stock into cash and sell below the market value might just be delaying the inevitable but at the same time they are cutting the throats of every other nearby dealer.
In the UK right now Big K are offering the ZX-14 on 0% finance over 3 years with just £99 deposit (that's about $150 US) and franchised dealers cannot advertise a current model at a reduced price. The same applies to Honda and Triumph. In theory a new bike ought to be the same price anywhere in the country. Obviously the quality of service and dealer loyalty are key factors here and won't be the same everywhere.
I think the problem here in the UK is very well summed up by the term "Credit Crunch". Even though the government have made Billions available to the Banks, they merely stuffed it in their own pockets and are not lending it to business or private customers. That means everything has stalled while we all wait to see what happens. I sincerely hope that someone finds a way to restore confidence and get it all going again.
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Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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HiMile14
Expert Class
Posts: 424
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posted January 12, 2009 05:28 AM
Bob C
Wow that's is serious incentive to buy a bike. I remember when 12% was considered good. I guess I've just dated myself.
Rob
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted January 12, 2009 05:36 AM
Edited By: BobC on 12 Jan 2009 13:40
quote:
Bob C
Wow that's is serious incentive to buy a bike. I remember when 12% was considered good. I guess I've just dated myself.
Rob
You bet it is. I'm very tempted to trade my 06 model for an 09.
It's only done 4.000 miles though, I've got it just the way I want it and it's a really quick bike.
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Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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eklipse636
Needs a life
ZX-14
Posts: 6046
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posted January 12, 2009 06:58 AM
Himile- I hate to tell you thins under $50 are marked up considerberally more than 10 percent.there is a 50 to 100 percent markup in items under $50!! I've ran a retail store for 5 years and dad owned it so I have grew up in it all my life. The dealerships have PLENTY of room to come off of msrp but they choose not to. If a small independent store can do it, they can as well. They need a manager that can cut overhead cost and don't throw so much money away on unnecessary stuff. I agree we need to support them bc like was said earlier if we don't their won't be a dealership around when we really need something!! And that's gonna suck to have to drive almost 2 1/2 hours to go to one if the small ones close. I guess its a love/hate relationship between some of us and the dealers...
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Best: 60ft 1.351 1/8 5.68 mph 123.98 1/4
8.89 mph 151.32
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Some Guy
Expert Class
Posts: 144
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posted January 12, 2009 09:13 AM
Edited By: Some Guy on 12 Jan 2009 17:13
Not to get political here, but I never did go for the bailout plan. Really, if you and I screwed up the way that they did, we'd go bankrupt and no one would bail us out.
As of right now, the banks got 350 Billion and have done little with it. It's not too late to stop the other 350 Billion or so.
True, if they go under, the economy hurts for a while. Probably a very long while. But there will be others who will come up after them.
When a fire torches a forest, and all is lost, new trees grow in their place. It takes time, but it will happen.
Hell, I say, let them all go under, forgive everyone their debt, (to those establishments that are going under), and start over. That burden lifted will surely help spur the economy.
Please don't assume I know what I'm talkin' about, I'm just a computer guy...
As for the local dealerships, I don't know if we can help that much. I bought my wife's 650r at the local dealership, that's the best I can do. I like having them here cuz it's a long, 4 hour ride to Seattle.
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'08 SE ZX-14
'14 1000r Ninja (wife's)
1985 900 Ninja
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HiMile14
Expert Class
Posts: 424
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posted January 12, 2009 12:09 PM
Some Guy
Amen brother, I just wish your thinking would come from Washington.
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BIG BLUE_ZX14
Expert Class
Posts: 374
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posted January 12, 2009 01:29 PM
I purchased my bike from the local dealer and try to purchase parts and such from them when I can. Occationally I will call them out on prices or just say "I can get this online for $X what can you get it in for" and they usually match it.
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2012 Blue on Black ZX14R with Go Faster Stuff...
2007 Blue ZX14 Gone...
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted January 12, 2009 02:16 PM
I just hope that Kawasaki doesn't make you pre-order bikes 1 year ahead like Yamaha does on some models.
Roy
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SteveWFL
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted January 12, 2009 03:24 PM
quote:
I just hope that Kawasaki doesn't make you pre-order bikes 1 year ahead like Yamaha does on some models.
Roy
Roy, which models are those?
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2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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edc
Parking Attendant
Posts: 4
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posted January 12, 2009 03:25 PM
I read the posts often but don't post much and tend to be amazed just how unloyal folks are to the local dealers.
We had a customer once, busting me on my margin, he was in construction. As we further talked I asked him maybe when we were through you can build me a house at say 20% off, not to insult him as he thought I had a large enough margin to give him 30% off. He then laughed at me, and lectured me on business overhead, employees, insurance, taxes and on and on. Great negotiating move for me as guess what, we have the same expenses and cost of operation. We settled on a fair price and no he couldn't even do 5% off a house.
I refuse to sacrifice customer service, We won't equip my shops with less than the best equipment and try to attract the best techs and personnel and they don't come cheap. Inventory is cash out of pocket and I keep a great supply of the stuff people want. We refuse to be a desperate price whore attemptng only to put cash in the bank to make payroll. We will be around along time and will again see the price whore shopper in our store when their bike breaks and the internet whores are long gone.
Not every dealer is a champ, but it seems the patroism and loyality this country was founded on is as uncommom as common sense.
If you have a great local dealer support them with your business, he just might be the only one left when need him the most. If not don't shop there at all.
It is said that about 10% of the US workforce is involved in the vehicle mfg, sales and service. So if 1/2 of the dealers go out as suspected in 09 theres a real good chance you will be directly affected by either losing a place to shop or someone losing their job that helps make your paycheck.
Would you give up 20% or any your pay to make the peopel you do business with a better deal???????
I'm done. Be safe and have fun, thats what motorcycling is all about and support / reward those who provide exceptional customer service and simply don't shop at those who don't.
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Stu64
Zone Head
Posts: 548
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posted January 12, 2009 04:59 PM
My father taught me young to always shop around when buying a big purchase and always told me that the money's just as good in your pocket as theirs.
That being said with the way the economy is i will spend my money where the best deal can be had,if the local fancy dealerships want some of my cash then they better show some effort to get it.
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Lanceromance
Parking Attendant
Posts: 15
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posted January 12, 2009 06:43 PM
I'm not in the motorcycle industry but I've owned a small chain of nutrition stores (nutritiondirect.org..shameless plug lol) for about 8 years now. Before I got into retail I thought they all had 900% markups too, but now that im on the other side of the counter I've painfully realized that aint so. If you're local dealership treats you right and gives you a fair price, maybe not the absolute cheapest price, but a fair price I say patronage them. Putting money back into your local economy is paramount. I compete with the internet every day..and I'm sure like in my industry there are internet whores selling motorcycle goods at or near cost. I dont think most people realize how expensive it is to run a physical store front, unlike a website that has little employees, no brick & morter store, and most times dont even carry any inventory...all that adds up to very little overhead that allows them to give those prices. I run a discount store so we are already cheap but some of these websites still gouge us. Customer service and making people feel comfortable is the only reason why my stores are still around when many others have come and gone. If I cant match a price we get as close to it as possible..and 99% of the time the customer buys from us. There will always be those cheap skates that want that last penny but those are the customers I dont want anyways. They are never appreciative of anything you do for them. I could go on and on. So again, if you have a good dealership that treats you right and gives reasonable prices I would patronize them and remember that they will never be the cheapest on everything but as long as you get a decent price dont quibble. Besides look at it this way..the more money you spend in you're local economy the more your house becomes worth.
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3Boysand3Bikes
Expert Class
Posts: 382
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posted January 12, 2009 10:38 PM
quote:
I've been bypassing all the fancy local dealerships for years now,they build these fancy dealerships on prime real estate,then won't give you a deal at all on MRSP. Claim there isn't much of a mark up...bullshit. I go to Chicago dealerships only 70 miles away and their willing to cut bike prices most times over $1000.
As far as car dealerships i think we could use a few less of them and their lying ass salesmen. Again they build these BIG fancy dealerships then act like their not making any money,now were suppose to feel sorry for them.......Baaahhhaaaawaaaa.
Hey Stu... I live near you and I agree with Chicago dealers. They sell a lot of bikes. I went to Chicago Cycle and they were over $1,000 cheaper than here. I did buy my zx-11 from Don and Roy's... my zx-12 and Busa at Midwest Action Cycle, but they were year end deals and they sold them pretty cheap. I do like the car dealers in Waukesha though... They have given me the best deals and I didn't have to drive to Chicago. I think that Madison used to be pretty good but when 'Young America' (different name now) priced me for the 14 I about died... I did talk to the locals about price and they said that they would rather have me drive to Chicago and get the deal there than for them to come down that much in price.. so I did TRY to use them. I felt bad when they did the recall check so I bought tires from them. Of course it was a bit of a rip but I want to be able to still get parts since the boys have the dirt bikes. With the economy... we all have to do what it takes. Hello again HIMILE!!! Nice to see you are still around!!!
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SteveWFL
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted January 12, 2009 11:24 PM
Edited By: SteveWFL on 13 Jan 2009 07:25
whats the debate about 
I'm an American consumer, I purchase bikes and vehicles wherever I can find the best deal.
and I'll travel too. both the sites below have their OTD prices on their web pages.
some travel from FL to TN to purchase brand new Hondas at HUGE discounts from southernhonda.com
and for Yamaha the secret is out the HUGE discounts are at yamahadiscountprices.com in Mississippi
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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Stu64
Zone Head
Posts: 548
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posted January 13, 2009 04:06 AM
3boys i also bought several bikes from D&R's a KLR and a ZX12 but after that,i started asking about just a little off MSRP they stuck their noses up and said nope. Found that all Kaw and Suzuki dealers in the Milwaukee area are that way.
Years ago they could get away with that,but not with internet shopping and people discussing their OTD prices.
Bottom line is you better Wake up and change your managing/business practices if you plan on staying alive in a recession economy.
I also bought a FJR1300 from Mukwonago Yamaha,but i know the owners personally
and they did give me a Good deal,but they only sell Yamaha.
If i wanted a KTM i would buy here in town,again i know and have been buying accesories from Motorsports factory since they opened. Mark is a great guy and so are the guys who work for him.
They will match or come close to internet prices,but there not in some fancy building with high taxes either.
And as far as service goes,i will only take my bike to the dealer if its a recall or warranty work after that i do all my own work, don't need any extra scratches on my bikes.
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted January 13, 2009 05:56 AM
great discussion. customer service and follow up are very important. my friend bought his bike (yamaha fj1300) from a local dealer that i bought my zx-14 from. they sell yamaha, kawasaki, suzuki. he had a scratched panel and 2 missing bolts. they took forever to get the panel in (2 months) and still haven't got him the bolts. they do not follow up with return calls when parts come in, or order parts when asked to according to him. i have gotten my tires replaced there once and they gave me a great price installed and did it while i waited. i guess everyone has different experiences, but consistency and good service and feedback are paramount to these motorcycle shops staying in business.
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted January 13, 2009 02:03 PM
quote:
quote:
I just hope that Kawasaki doesn't make you pre-order bikes 1 year ahead like Yamaha does on some models.
Roy
Roy, which models are those?
to get a vmax this year , you had to put down a 1k non-refundable / non-tranferable deposit last year and they were sold out early. the FJ13 was the same way when they were introduced. seems like a grate way to keep the price at MSRP since there are few left overs.
looks like the 2009 vmax is the same...quote:
The 2009 VMAX order period ended on October 31, 2008. Availability and ordering info for the 2010 VMAX will be posted on this site at a later date.
Roy
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evoluzione
Parking Attendant
Posts: 7
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posted January 13, 2009 02:50 PM
quote:
...to get a vmax this year , you had to put down a 1k non-refundable / non-tranferable deposit last year and they were sold out early.
quote:
The 2009 VMAX order period ended on October 31, 2008. Availability and ordering info for the 2010 VMAX will be posted on this site at a later date.
actually, i bought a vmax a couple weeks ago. i just called the local dealer, they had two available and later that afternoon i was riding one home.
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regards,
ken zeller
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SteveWFL
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted January 13, 2009 03:05 PM
quote:
actually, i bought a vmax a couple weeks ago. i just called the local dealer, they had two available and later that afternoon i was riding one home.
did you get a good deal?
hey post some videos of it stomping on some 14s! 
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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