smokinzx14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted September 23, 2008 08:21 AM
Thin head gasket and cam timing test
As some of you know JesseJames is setting his bike up for the AMA ProStar Super Sport class .... There is not much you can do to the bike as far as mods but what they do allow is a bump in compression and Deg the cams .... I pulled the motor to make it easier to work on , i could have done it in the frame but it's easier to work on with the motor out ... The head gasket was 10 thousand thinner than factory so you will need to Deg the cams after replacement ... Steddyteddy came over to give me a hand , good thing he did because we ending up making most of the tools needed to do the cam timing .. We set the cam timing to 105 intake and 107 exhaust , this seems to be the number that works or so said the pro's ... Factory is 105 105 so 2 Deg is not much different to the factory settings ... Before we pulled the motor apart we deemed it a good idea to check the factory cam timing to see if it was off any ...It was right on the money at 105 105 and that was with tons of passes with a turbo and spray and a bunch of street miles ...Looks like the zx14 engine has a good factory cam chain and will take a real beating ...
Two days of beating on the bike and it's back together , i fired it up and the engine has a different sound at idle ... It has a bit more pop at idle and seems to Rev a bit faster .. We didn't dyno the bike before the mods to get a base line so i have no clue what kind of HP we picked up .... We know that Jesse has an Avg 1/8 speed of 120 to 121 so Weds night we will put it to the test and see if we picked up any MPH ...
This is not a costly Mod , you only need a head gasket and your labor , so for a do it yourself type of guy it may yeld a good bang for your buck ...( we will see) If you have to pay someone to do the job it may not be a good deal .. If i had to guess on what this would gain i would guess maybe 4 to 5 HP and maybe more with a custom tune ..
While we were at it we added a Factory Pro Shift Star , roller and stronger shift detent
spring .... I took the bike for a short ride to see what it felt like and the shifting is bit more soild ( less slop) We will have to see how Jesse feels about it at the track Weds night ..It's around a 100.00 mod and i'm not sure it's needed on a zx14 but it can't hurt ...
Update coming Weds Night.......Smokin ..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
  
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Shane661
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Posts: 11494
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posted September 23, 2008 08:23 AM
I'm very interested to see what kind of performance this yields. It would be an ideal time to install stiffer valve springs as well, for nitrous or turbo.
Shane
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted September 23, 2008 10:10 AM
 Edited By: NINJA12 on 23 Sep 2008 18:11
Yes sir.
The New Carpenter spring are said to be holding up well and cost half of the APE's.
I have a set on the way.
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jessejames82
Zone Head
Posts: 550
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posted September 23, 2008 10:17 AM
yah supersport u cant do that.....
quote:
I'm very interested to see what kind of performance this yields. It would be an ideal time to install stiffer valve springs as well, for nitrous or turbo.
Shane
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Orient Express Rider
SuperSport ZX 14
6.000 8th mile
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Nelson Taylor
Zone Head
Posts: 927
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posted September 23, 2008 01:22 PM
Edited By: Nelson Taylor on 23 Sep 2008 21:24
Thanks for letting us know what all this consisted of Smokin.
Sounds like a nice project to try over ther winter.
What fuel are you going to play with since you've went with a thinner head gasket?
Has the compression changed any, if at all?
Interested in seeing how he does...
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Best #'s
1.54
4.03
6.02 @ 121mph
(Stock Wheelbase) 2006 ZX14
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kimski2001
Expert Class
Posts: 144
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posted September 24, 2008 06:14 AM
Good deal Smokin' I've talked to a few people and they said 105/105 is the best,even with the S/S mod;not sure though?My only question is,how will you guys know if it better?did you have a chance to try it with the stock cam timing?
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1st14injax
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smokinzx14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted September 24, 2008 06:33 AM
quote:
Good deal Smokin' I've talked to a few people and they said 105/105 is the best,even with the S/S mod;not sure though?My only question is,how will you guys know if it better?did you have a chance to try it with the stock cam timing?
The only way we know if it works is the track numbers .. We don't have a someone that knows how it use a dyno around here...So we will have to do it the old way ( test and tune ) ........ 105 105 maybe be the best , truth is we don't know what is best ...One thing i know for sure is 2 deg change on one cam will not make a hill of beans difference .. Had it been 2 deg on BOTH cams we may have seen a difference ... Point was with the thinner head gasket we had to set them to a number that was close to factory.....If we had not checked them with the thinner gasket i know we would have been way off the 105 105 numbers..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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THEMADKAW
Expert Class
Posts: 211
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posted September 24, 2008 06:34 AM
doesn't Super Sport rules allow for multi-angle valve jobs? if so are you going to do that at a later date?
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smokinzx14
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Posts: 10197
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posted September 24, 2008 06:41 AM
quote:
Thanks for letting us know what all this consisted of Smokin.
Sounds like a nice project to try over ther winter.
What fuel are you going to play with since you've went with a thinner head gasket?
Has the compression changed any, if at all?
Interested in seeing how he does...
We want to see what gains we got with just the head gasket and setting the cams before we changed fuels ... So we will be using pump gas like we have been using ... SS class mandates the use of U4.2 fuel so we will be using that after we see what we gained from the head gasket ( if any ) ...Seeing that we don't have anyone around here that can Map a bike we will have to play with the Map at the track and hope we find some MPH ...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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kimski2001
Expert Class
Posts: 144
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posted September 24, 2008 06:43 AM
quote:
quote:
Good deal Smokin' I've talked to a few people and they said 105/105 is the best,even with the S/S mod;not sure though?My only question is,how will you guys know if it better?did you have a chance to try it with the stock cam timing?
The only way we know if it works is the track numbers .. We don't have a someone that knows how it use a dyno around here...So we will have to do it the old way ( test and tune ) ........ 105 105 maybe be the best , truth is we don't know what is best ...One thing i know for sure is 2 deg change on one cam will not make a hill of beans difference .. Had it been 2 deg on BOTH cams we may have seen a difference ... Point was with the thinner head gasket we had to set them to a number that was close to factory.....If we had not checked them with the thinner gasket i know we would have been way off the 105 105 numbers..
Amen brother on the tuning centers!Been there done that.Keep us posted!
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1st14injax
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smokinzx14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted September 24, 2008 06:55 AM
quote:
doesn't Super Sport rules allow for multi-angle valve jobs? if so are you going to do that at a later date?
From what i know or have read we can't do more to the valves than the factory did ..I know there are some grey areas in the rules so i'm sure the pro's are doing something to these motors to make the power that we are seeing in the class... Remember that Jesse it doing these out of he own pocket with very limited money and we know the pro's will out spend him 100 to 1 ....Jesse has worked two jobs just to get this far ..I do the labor for a very very reduced price just to help him out .. Other have helped also with reduced prices on parts ....Jesse is just trying to get in the game and get his feet wet at this point .. Got to start somewhere ....
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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SteddyTeddy
Pro
Posts: 1664
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posted September 24, 2008 07:09 AM
I guess I'll have to show up at the track now and see how it does. Was planning on installing the NOS system tonight but I guess it can wait another day or 2.
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THEMADKAW
Expert Class
Posts: 211
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posted September 24, 2008 07:26 AM
i understand that! i was just wondering, because a buddy of mine got a zx-10 from a guy that had been super-sported and it made big hp. the tuner said it was due in part to a very good valve job and cam timing, since those were the only mods allow to the head.
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billeason
Zone Head
Posts: 711
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posted September 24, 2008 09:14 AM
I have been playing around with u4.2 lee every since brock poo' poo'ed it. I have ss motors making good power on it. It will make better power then mrxo1 if mapped right. Granted most of this testing is on the gsxr platform, I run it in my 06-14 and gained power over pump, again with a specific map. VP recommends richening the map up but you will find thats not always best with this stuff,its pretty high octane. Good luck with the 14 in ss jessie.
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bill eason
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smokinzx14
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posted September 24, 2008 07:06 PM
Update
I just got bacK from the track and we didn't really get any good info ... The bike seems to have picked up about a half of a 10th in the 1/8 mile as well as picking up about a MPH .. We had one hell of a head wind so we might have got more MPH on a better night .... Jesse kept missing gears so most of the runs were tossed out ... Jesse did have his best ever 60 foot time at stock wheel base .. 1.53 So i was very happy to see that ... Jesse felt that the bike had more power than it did before the mods but was unable to get full use it tonight .. We will try again next weds night and post up the out come ...
Smokin ...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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smokinzx14
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Posts: 10197
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posted September 24, 2008 07:08 PM
quote:
I have been playing around with u4.2 lee every since brock poo' poo'ed it. I have ss motors making good power on it. It will make better power then mrxo1 if mapped right. Granted most of this testing is on the gsxr platform, I run it in my 06-14 and gained power over pump, again with a specific map. VP recommends richening the map up but you will find thats not always best with this stuff,its pretty high octane. Good luck with the 14 in ss jessie.
Bill we will have to give you call and pick your brain about this U4.2 ....
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
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posted September 24, 2008 09:42 PM
ill be waiting for your results. make sure to post them when you get the answer. Thanks, Jorgen G
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billeason
Zone Head
Posts: 711
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posted September 25, 2008 05:04 PM
ss 14
quote:
quote:
I have been playing around with u4.2 lee every since brock poo' poo'ed it. I have ss motors making good power on it. It will make better power then mrxo1 if mapped right. Granted most of this testing is on the gsxr platform, I run it in my 06-14 and gained power over pump, again with a specific map. VP recommends richening the map up but you will find thats not always best with this stuff,its pretty high octane. Good luck with the 14 in ss jessie.
Bill we will have to give you call and pick your brain about this U4.2 ....
Yea lee'' do that. I have a map or two i'll send you that you can fine tune to track conditions. I dont think your conditions are to much differant then here, hot and muggy!! How s that ten running, haven't seen any posts lately''but this post is interesting. IM anxious to see how it goes for you and jessie, Let us know..... Bill
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bill eason
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Nelson Taylor
Zone Head
Posts: 927
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posted September 25, 2008 07:56 PM
Bill let us know how that U4.2 is working for you with the ZX14, compared to other fuels.
-MPH (1/8mile &1/4mile)
-ET (1/8mile &1/4mile)
I am still running 87 pump gas, but I want to start using a better fuel.
MR9 is gone in this area.
U4 is gone as well or either its been sitting on someone self for over a year.
MRX01 not sure how that'll help me with a stock motor, or if its worth it.
XXX haven't heard much about this stuff at all aside from whats posted on PB.com
LMK....
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Best #'s
1.54
4.03
6.02 @ 121mph
(Stock Wheelbase) 2006 ZX14
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00Busa
Expert Class
Trying to go FASTER !
Posts: 270
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posted September 26, 2008 02:10 AM
I too am interested in how the U4.2 works.
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'00 Busa / '06 14 /
IT AINT BRAGGING, IF YOU CAN BACK IT UP !
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted September 26, 2008 05:52 AM
Cut half the impellers off the water pump. he he...
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billeason
Zone Head
Posts: 711
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posted September 26, 2008 11:10 AM
I run the same or about the same times in the 1/4 with u4.2 as i do with mrxo1,but the reason i kept working with the u4.2 is the octane. Most of my guys spray dry 30-40 actual hp hits. I have good luck with this fuel with motor or nos as with the mrxo1 i didn't like the way the plugs were specking up with a 40 hp shot. Don't get me wrong the mrxo1 is good stuff on motor and was never intended for nos, I just wanted one fuel for both with these little shots. I add 5% to mrxo1 on motor over pump,but add very little fuel over pump with the u4.2 even tho they recomend stepping it up on motor! If your not spraying and want something other then pump run mrxo1 if you can't find mr9. For a 30 shot add 15% to u4.2 and you will be safe and make good power,and only loose 5-6 when not spraying' one map and very good torque. Like for lee/jessie's tune i would start with pump map and watch mph [lee's dyno] Hee Hee! and maybe even pull some fuel out at 100% tps from 9- shift points. Just what i have run across guys,and u4.2 is alot cheaper then mrxo1 . Bill
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bill eason
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kimski2001
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Posts: 144
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posted October 02, 2008 06:08 AM
Any new news smokin?inquiring minds wanna know!
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1st14injax
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smokinzx14
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Posts: 10197
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posted October 02, 2008 07:34 AM
Edited By: smokinzx14 on 2 Oct 2008 15:34
quote:
Any new news smokin?inquiring minds wanna know!
Nothing really ... We did go back to the track last night and Jesse did post his best MPH to date at stock wheel base, so that tells me that we indeed picked up some HP with the thin head gasket... Jesse is having problems missing gears and i'm at lost to why he is having problems.. I thought the shift kit would help him with this problem but it has not ... Jesse said it's him and not the bike ... We are going down to the 1/4 mile track next Thursday night and i should have some more info after that ...
Smokin..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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kimski2001
Expert Class
Posts: 144
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posted October 02, 2008 07:51 AM
Cool thanks!Shift kit?
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1st14injax
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