fifth
Expert Class
The Magnificent Bastard
Posts: 303
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posted September 16, 2008 05:51 PM
Countershaft sprocket differences
I know a smaller front sprocket makes for quicker accelleration for a stand still....
I am still having problems getting around gear ratios. It goes back to my stock bike with stock gearing staying neck and neck with a 08 GSXR 1000 on a 30 mph WOT roll-on.
I installed alot of up-grades, to include 16/43 gearing, and the Gixxer took me by a bike length at each gear shift..... Soon after I got a MUCH improved map and we went from 50 mph on a WOT roll-on. This time, he managed to only pull me 1 bike length through 4th gear.... keep in mind, his bike has remained stock and unchanged through-out all of this.
know, for the part someone, hopefully, can help me with.....
if I put the stock front sprocket back on the bike, giving me a 17/43 gearing, how can I expect the bike to accellerate?? I know my take off from a dead stop will be worse, but will my roll on be better?? Currently, I rap the motor out very quickly once rolling through the gears. I know it will take longer to rap out in each gear, but..... I just can't figure out how my bike stock was able to run neck and neck with that $@^#$@ Gixxer and it wont now.....
can somebody explain how similar gear ratios behave differently??? 16/43 and 18/48 are virtually the same ratio if my math was right, but they have different characteristics on the bike and accellerate different...... I have seen the same CBR 1000 behave differently with very similar gear ratios. The smaller front sprocket pulled out the hole better, but rapped out too quickly on the top end.....the larger front sprocket, (same gear ratio) pull hard on bottom, but rapped out slower alittle slower on the top while gaining momentum in top gears more quickly........
HELP.......
   
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kimski2001
Expert Class
Posts: 144
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posted September 16, 2008 06:06 PM
obviously you've went wrong somewhere,what upgrades do you speak of?
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1st14injax
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bawls
Needs a job
re-learning to ride
Posts: 2701
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posted September 16, 2008 06:08 PM
is it possible that he slapped a TRE on it and didn't tell you? i know that my friend's 03 responded very well to it with no mapping or anything.
____________
Best 60ft: 1.42
Best 1/8th: 5.97
Best 1/8th MPH: 119
Brockland Police Badge # 001
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted September 16, 2008 09:01 PM
How are you shifting?
What RPM?
Early , late or slow shifting can make a major difference especially in the lower gears.
2/10 of a second is hard to see at 30 mph but that same 2/10 of a second is a couple bikes
at 150 mph. Hit first and hit your shift points then see if it ends the same.
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fifth
Expert Class
The Magnificent Bastard
Posts: 303
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posted September 17, 2008 07:35 AM
I have been shifting at 11k-ish, or as close as I can to it plus or minus 200 rpm.
I work on his bike. The only mod he has done to his bike is a Jardine GP slip on.
My mods are listed in my signature line, except I have added the swingarm extensions and am currently running 16/43 gears.
It should also be noted that I am 370 lbs. I put a 200 lb rider on my bike and nobody but the turbo busa in town can even touch my bike.....
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Hurricane
Expert Class
Posts: 173
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posted September 17, 2008 11:12 AM
Is he pulling a bike length right from the start or is it gradual?
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted September 17, 2008 02:59 PM
Where is your PCIII grounded? Did you fall for the easy route and use that screw right above where it plugs into the harness? If so, you have to at a minimum clean the bolt that attaches it to the frame (aft attach bolt) AND clean the sealant filled hole. There is very little way for a connection to be made thru there as it sits stock- even though it looks like it wouldnt be an issue. I also sanded the bar and tank to bare metal in a small spot where I knew they would make contact. Just to be sure. I will repaint that area (with the bolt and bar attached) so that it will not corrode, but wasnt able to when I installed it.
Or just do like you're supposed to and runa wire to the battery. You will probably have to splice an extension onto your ground, though. Good Luck!
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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fifth
Expert Class
The Magnificent Bastard
Posts: 303
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posted September 17, 2008 03:43 PM
I grounded mine to the battery.......
At first, with stock gearing, he would pull 1/2 a bike at first, and when I shifted, I would come back even with him and stay there.....
with the bad map, he just ran off and left me....
now, with a 2 gear high rpm (for me around 8 grand) roll on, he gets me by a bike at the start, and then it stays the same the rest of the way up.........
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MJ
Zone Head
Posts: 560
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posted September 17, 2008 04:08 PM
quote:
I know a smaller front sprocket makes for quicker accelleration for a stand still....
I am still having problems getting around gear ratios. It goes back to my stock bike with stock gearing staying neck and neck with a 08 GSXR 1000 on a 30 mph WOT roll-on.
I installed alot of up-grades, to include 16/43 gearing, and the Gixxer took me by a bike length at each gear shift..... Soon after I got a MUCH improved map and we went from 50 mph on a WOT roll-on. This time, he managed to only pull me 1 bike length through 4th gear.... keep in mind, his bike has remained stock and unchanged through-out all of this.
know, for the part someone, hopefully, can help me with.....
if I put the stock front sprocket back on the bike, giving me a 17/43 gearing, how can I expect the bike to accellerate?? I know my take off from a dead stop will be worse, but will my roll on be better?? Currently, I rap the motor out very quickly once rolling through the gears. I know it will take longer to rap out in each gear, but..... I just can't figure out how my bike stock was able to run neck and neck with that $@^#$@ Gixxer and it wont now.....
can somebody explain how similar gear ratios behave differently??? 16/43 and 18/48 are virtually the same ratio if my math was right, but they have different characteristics on the bike and accellerate different...... I have seen the same CBR 1000 behave differently with very similar gear ratios. The smaller front sprocket pulled out the hole better, but rapped out too quickly on the top end.....the larger front sprocket, (same gear ratio) pull hard on bottom, but rapped out slower alittle slower on the top while gaining momentum in top gears more quickly........
HELP.......
One thing alot of folks don't realize is that a bigger motor like the 14 doesn't produce its power the same as a smaller 1000 motor. 1000's are designed to do their work at higher revs..they wind higher than a 14 and wind up faster. Thats why 1000's come with lower gearing stock than 14's, and thats why the factory geared the 14 the way they did. The higher a gear a motor can pull the the faster it will be to a point. Finding the right gearing for a motor, and its power delivery, is the trick. A bigger motor like the 14 has more torque..and does its best work pulling slightly taller gearing than a 1000. A 14 won't wind as tight or as quick as a 1000, even tho it'll go faster set up right. So if you gear the 14 too low, its going to be playing a small motor game that it isn't designed to win. Same thing with gearing a 1000 up to far. I would definately gear a 14 down from stock...mines +2 in back....but I wouldn't go too far. It sounds like maybe you're finding out where your set-ups best gearing is 
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fifth
Expert Class
The Magnificent Bastard
Posts: 303
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posted September 19, 2008 09:55 PM
Ok...another addition to this puzzle...........
tonight, at 64 degrees, I ate him up from a 5 mph roll in 1st (from a stop light, and I let him hit the throttle first)....I actually wheelied past him in 1st and pulled a couple of bikes on him in 2nd, and then 2 more bike lengths in 3rd....
from a 50 mph roll with me in 2nd, I jump (again, letting him throttle first) I jumped him a bike before shifting to 3rd. Then another couple of bikes in 3rd and 2 more in 4th.....
WTF gives????? The only change to the bike is that I sat back in the seat instead of cods to the tank (which causes it to wheelie in the first 3 gears but gives me better stick versus spin at the backtire)....... and the air temperature.
Could the air temp really make that big of a difference??? All of the other times we have ran have been during the heat of the day (90 to 100 degree temps)
If the air temp made the difference, can the mapping be adjusted to run better in the heat of the day??
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kawasakijockey
Pro
Posts: 1876
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posted September 20, 2008 05:32 AM
Yes, temp differences have been a factor on my 14 as well. The change from 95 degrees to 64 degrees equals a tenth and a half on my bike. I believe your map could be rich in hot weather and makes it run correctly in cool air. Temp swings like that will have mapping off from 2-5 percent. It depends on humidity too.
____________
Get on the shortbus boys 'cause its time to get schooled.
2007 ZX-14
1.38 60ft
9.03 @ 149mph
8.95 @153 small shot n2o
8.68 @160mph 5lbs boost
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fifth
Expert Class
The Magnificent Bastard
Posts: 303
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posted September 20, 2008 06:35 AM
I will have to manual adjust the PCIII at the buttons. Correct me if I am wrong, but each bar is worth 2% + or -, depending on the direction you go??
And it was so worth it to see his face when we stopped......he was just quiet....I told him that it was ok...I knew how to pronounce it and I would help him....can you say Ka-wa-sa-ki ????
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted September 20, 2008 08:56 AM
I'm just wondering if he was running nitrous and was out on that day. He probably REALLY wanted to tell you that but had to bite his tongue to hide his secret. Seen it happen before...
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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fifth
Expert Class
The Magnificent Bastard
Posts: 303
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posted September 20, 2008 09:30 AM
nope, no nitrous.... if he was running nitrous before, it would be a shame that he only pulled me by so little..... I mean, our bikes are within 15 or so hp of each other, correct??
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted September 20, 2008 11:34 AM
quote:
nope, no nitrous.... if he was running nitrous before, it would be a shame that he only pulled me by so little..... I mean, our bikes are within 15 or so hp of each other, correct??
Nitrous is adjustable man, you know that. Don't know how small the jets go, but you would assume a15-20hp jet is kinda standard. And with a hideable bottle the amount of juice you can carry is normally limited.
Last dyno run, my bike was 170.7hp- enough to win the shootout. A 2008 Gixxer 1K won the 1000cc shootout with a whopping 154.5hp. So yeah, 15 hp sounds about right for you, too. The gixxer was piped, not sure of what else.
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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MJ
Zone Head
Posts: 560
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posted September 20, 2008 01:25 PM
quote:
Ok...another addition to this puzzle...........
tonight, at 64 degrees, I ate him up from a 5 mph roll in 1st (from a stop light, and I let him hit the throttle first)....I actually wheelied past him in 1st and pulled a couple of bikes on him in 2nd, and then 2 more bike lengths in 3rd....
from a 50 mph roll with me in 2nd, I jump (again, letting him throttle first) I jumped him a bike before shifting to 3rd. Then another couple of bikes in 3rd and 2 more in 4th.....
WTF gives????? The only change to the bike is that I sat back in the seat instead of cods to the tank (which causes it to wheelie in the first 3 gears but gives me better stick versus spin at the backtire)....... and the air temperature.
Could the air temp really make that big of a difference??? All of the other times we have ran have been during the heat of the day (90 to 100 degree temps)
If the air temp made the difference, can the mapping be adjusted to run better in the heat of the day??
Air temps make a HUGE difference with the 14....more so than any other bike I've ridden. On a hot day it feels like a pig....a cool day and its trying to kill me lol.
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road rage
Expert Class
Posts: 129
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posted September 20, 2008 01:37 PM
 Edited By: road rage on 20 Sep 2008 21:39
Uh you said you weigh 370 lbs? I don't know what others would say and I know it's been mentioned to you before in the past but IMHO that's the biggest strike you have against you. I only weight 170 ish and no body can catch me when I'm on my ZX-14 unless it's a new school Busa.
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