Kawabonzai
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posted September 05, 2008 12:10 PM
Next Best Fit - Litre Bike
Yo!
I'm undecided if I want to get another ZX-14 to replace my wrecked one. I just came from the dealer and did a semi-butt test for ergonomics on the 4 litre bikes ... ZX-10R, GSXR 1000, R1, CBR1000RR. (2008 models)
From how it felt to me, I think the GSXR 1000 has the roomiest ergo's followed by R1 and ZX-10 and CBR1000RR being really tight.
I sold my 996 because my wife wanted to ride 2-up and also my hip (bone spur) hurts curled up in a ball. I come to find out later that my hip still hurts even with Buell pegs and Heli bars, plus now my wife has her own Gixxer 600 she's gonna learn to ride.
Since my hip still hurts and 2-up is not as important anymore, I'm undecided on gettign another ZX-14.
"They" say a ZX-10 will match a ZX-14 in the quarter mile and also the GSXR 1000.
I'm waivering all over the place here but I guess I'd like to know whats the next best thing to a ZX-14 in the power and ergo department?
Thx in advance.
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PC-III w/USB, Muzzys M14 + Carbon Oval + M10, BMC Race Filter, Flies Out, Buell Pegs, Heli Risers
www.TucsonSportRiders.com - Tucson's Premier SportRider Community
   
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butterthegreat
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posted September 05, 2008 12:16 PM
How big are you and are you all legs, all torso, or 50/50.
I am 50/50 and the CBR 1000rr is super comfy. I can't ever seem to find a comfortable GSXR. But the ONLY manufacturer that stills has some street focus this year is honda...all the rest are track focus.
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Kawabonzai
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posted September 05, 2008 12:40 PM
 Edited By: Kawabonzai on 5 Sep 2008 13:43
Hi there,
I wear 38 x 34 pants. 34 being the inseam. I'd say I'm 5% more torso than legs. I weight 225 at 6'2".
I wonder why the Honda felt so small to me. Hmm. I'm gonna have to wear my old helmet and see where I look thru the visor. It's a good indication of lean.
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PC-III w/USB, Muzzys M14 + Carbon Oval + M10, BMC Race Filter, Flies Out, Buell Pegs, Heli Risers
www.TucsonSportRiders.com - Tucson's Premier SportRider Community
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smokinzx14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted September 05, 2008 01:01 PM
"They" say a ZX-10 will match a ZX-14 in the quarter mile and also the GSXR 1000.
The zx10 is not close to the zx14 in the 1/4 mile ..... My zx10 9.18 @ 148 my zx14 see my sig ....
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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butterthegreat
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posted September 05, 2008 01:04 PM
quote:
Hi there,
I wear 38 x 34 pants. 34 being the inseam. I'd say I'm 5% more torso than legs. I weight 225 at 6'2".
I wonder why the Honda felt so small to me. Hmm. I'm gonna have to wear my old helmet and see where I look thru the visor. It's a good indication of lean.
I am 6'2" @ 300lbs.....I can admit that it takes a smidge more flexibility to get my legs up on the pegs fully geared, but after that is feels fine and I have no cramping even after a 5 hour ride.
You basically have the same build as I do....so I dunno. But different bikes will feel different for different people...I was just trying to throw a reference out there for you.
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Sticks_n_Stones
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posted September 05, 2008 01:34 PM
Butter, you have a 2008 CBR 1000? If not, you should go try it. The new one is way way smaller than the old one! Hell, it's smaller feeling than a R6!
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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butterthegreat
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posted September 05, 2008 01:48 PM
Edited By: butterthegreat on 5 Sep 2008 14:49
quote:
Butter, you have a 2008 CBR 1000? If not, you should go try it. The new one is way way smaller than the old one! Hell, it's smaller feeling than a R6!
Look at my thread on page 1...I bought one...LOL.
EDIT: It even feel smaller than my 600rr....but I am still comfy on it.
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Fifty Thousand
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posted September 05, 2008 02:00 PM
Smokin explain how much faster that is in feet or yards. Thats like what almost the 14 winning by ...???...??? 70-80 ft.
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street racer
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Posts: 141
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posted September 05, 2008 02:48 PM
I have an 06 GSXR1000 and it was the most comfortable of the 06 sportbikes that I sat on. If you lower the bike 1 1/2" in the front you can remove the top triple tree, remove the clip ons and reinstall them in reverse. You end up with the clips ons on top of the triple tree instead of under it. It makes a huge difference in comfort for me and is a free fix. I also lowered the rear 1 1/2" to match the front and bought a $30 kit that lowers the pegs 5/8". The bike is very comfortable for me. I am 6 foot even. I would guess that the 08 GSXR clip ons are mounted the same way but I dont know for sure. Anyway, good luck !!!
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Kawabonzai
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posted September 05, 2008 02:52 PM
Yup on the 08 clip-on's mounted under the triple.
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PC-III w/USB, Muzzys M14 + Carbon Oval + M10, BMC Race Filter, Flies Out, Buell Pegs, Heli Risers
www.TucsonSportRiders.com - Tucson's Premier SportRider Community
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madboost
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Posts: 187
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posted September 05, 2008 04:08 PM
if you were going to get gixxer wait till next year the new body style already out on 600s and 750s and i know 1k will change as well.
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08 zx14-with a few things.
94z28 383,TH400,YSI,9",DFI and much more
9.44@144 w 1.5060ft
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smokinzx14
Needs a life
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posted September 05, 2008 04:09 PM
quote:
Smokin explain how much faster that is in feet or yards. Thats like what almost the 14 winning by ...???...??? 70-80 ft.
I can't say in feet or yards only in tenths of a second ...My zx14 would be there 4 tenths of a second faster and be 6 MPH faster....
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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FaStEsTBuSaArOuNd
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posted September 05, 2008 05:37 PM
more like 120-140ft ahead...
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FYYFF!!!
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bawls
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posted September 05, 2008 05:43 PM
Edited By: bawls on 5 Sep 2008 18:44
that's about as far as the average joe schmoe on a gsxr1000 is ahead of an m109R cruiser in the 1/8th mile...
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Best 60ft: 1.42
Best 1/8th: 5.97
Best 1/8th MPH: 119
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dubious
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posted September 06, 2008 06:47 AM
I would be surprised to hear you find ergo's better on a liter bike, and they definately lack torque for a big guy like yourself...
Depends what you do i guess, corners for the literbikes.
Torquing around town and straighlines are definetly better on the 14, public roads the 14 is good enough corner carver for me anyway...
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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madboost
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posted September 06, 2008 09:09 AM
quote:
that's about as far as the average joe schmoe on a gsxr1000 is ahead of an m109R cruiser in the 1/8th mile...
the average joe thats riding the gixxer sucks sorry but 1k will blow m109 away
____________
08 zx14-with a few things.
94z28 383,TH400,YSI,9",DFI and much more
9.44@144 w 1.5060ft
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butterthegreat
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Posts: 329
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posted September 06, 2008 11:32 AM
quote:
I would be surprised to hear you find ergo's better on a liter bike, and they definately lack torque for a big guy like yourself...
Depends what you do i guess, corners for the literbikes.
Torquing around town and straighlines are definetly better on the 14, public roads the 14 is good enough corner carver for me anyway...
Lack of torque? I am 6'2" @ 300lbs and my 08 1000rr gets me going quick....@ 150 hp and 80 tq at the wheel...that is by no means lacking...especially in the case of my rr @ 120 lbs lighter than the ZX-14 with 171 hp and 101 tq at the wheel...both bikes in stock trim mind you.
The biggest difference is thrust...not torque. The ZX-14 produces ~1000lbs of thrust while the liter bikes produce ~750....
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madboost
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posted September 06, 2008 02:58 PM
quote:
quote:
I would be surprised to hear you find ergo's better on a liter bike, and they definately lack torque for a big guy like yourself...
Depends what you do i guess, corners for the literbikes.
Torquing around town and straighlines are definetly better on the 14, public roads the 14 is good enough corner carver for me anyway...
Lack of torque? I am 6'2" @ 300lbs and my 08 1000rr gets me going quick....@ 150 hp and 80 tq at the wheel...that is by no means lacking...especially in the case of my rr @ 120 lbs lighter than the ZX-14 with 171 hp and 101 tq at the wheel...both bikes in stock trim mind you.
The biggest difference is thrust...not torque. The ZX-14 produces ~1000lbs of thrust while the liter bikes produce ~750....
WTF is thurst, you not flying a jet engine you riding a motorcycle....Torque is what gets you going and hp is what keeps you going. IF you drag racing you need trq. 21tq difference is huge.
____________
08 zx14-with a few things.
94z28 383,TH400,YSI,9",DFI and much more
9.44@144 w 1.5060ft
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stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted September 06, 2008 03:44 PM
I had both a ZX14 now a litre bike.
If you're trying to compare "comfort", run from the light, short wheel base litre bike fast!!!
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2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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butterthegreat
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posted September 06, 2008 07:31 PM
Edited By: butterthegreat on 6 Sep 2008 20:35
quote:
quote:
quote:
I would be surprised to hear you find ergo's better on a liter bike, and they definately lack torque for a big guy like yourself...
Depends what you do i guess, corners for the literbikes.
Torquing around town and straighlines are definetly better on the 14, public roads the 14 is good enough corner carver for me anyway...
Lack of torque? I am 6'2" @ 300lbs and my 08 1000rr gets me going quick....@ 150 hp and 80 tq at the wheel...that is by no means lacking...especially in the case of my rr @ 120 lbs lighter than the ZX-14 with 171 hp and 101 tq at the wheel...both bikes in stock trim mind you.
The biggest difference is thrust...not torque. The ZX-14 produces ~1000lbs of thrust while the liter bikes produce ~750....
WTF is thurst, you not flying a jet engine you riding a motorcycle....Torque is what gets you going and hp is what keeps you going. IF you drag racing you need trq. 21tq difference is huge.
The first meaning of the word thrust in noun form:
"an act or instance of thrusting; a forcible push or shove; lunge or stab. "
Just so you know...that means DRIVING FORCE in simple terms.
You obviously know nothing about how power can be measured. Go back to physics class for a semester and LEARN something. This was also WELL explained in the Sportrider mag a few months ago when they were comparing the busa and zx-14.
Found the graph...check it out and shut up plz...thanks!
And the article:
http://www.sportrider.com/features/146_0804_kawasaki_zx14_suzuki_gsx1300r/index.html
In case you are lazy...here is the quote from the article:
"Let's talk about some numbers related to the two bikes tested here-the '08 Kawasaki ZX-14 and Suzuki GSX1300R Hayabusa-and put them in perspective. Suzuki's '07 GSX-R1000 posted a peak of 158.2 horsepower on our SuperFlow dyno. The Hayabusa makes more than the GSX-R's peak across a 2500-rpm band-almost a quarter of its rev range. Kawasaki's ZX-10R made the most torque of last year's literbikes, measuring 76.4 ft-lb in our shootout. The ZX-14 tops that number-at 3500 rpm, the lowest reading we could get on the dyno. How about thrust, the actual driving force delivered to the rear wheel? In first gear Honda's CBR1000RR makes 775 pounds, more than any other literbike. The ZX-14 and Hayabusa don't quite make that much-in second gear. In first gear, though, they have 30 percent more thrust. You get the idea: These bikes are stronger than literbikes in more ways than peak horsepower numbers alone can show."
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bawls
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re-learning to ride
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posted September 06, 2008 07:52 PM
quote:
quote:
that's about as far as the average joe schmoe on a gsxr1000 is ahead of an m109R cruiser in the 1/8th mile...
the average joe thats riding the gixxer sucks sorry but 1k will blow m109 away
I agree 100%, but it's still what happens at the track. Not everyone is a Smokin, BM, or Nightmare! Hell, there are people that can't get a 14 into the 6's and it'll damn near do that on it's own.
____________
Best 60ft: 1.42
Best 1/8th: 5.97
Best 1/8th MPH: 119
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dubious
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posted September 06, 2008 08:10 PM
Since we have decided to become rude...
butterthegreat , you need to ride those bikes instead of reading about them...
The zx14 has a torque curve twice as wide as the literbikes, and 20% more torque at peak, never mind down low.
I won't waste my time finding graphs to post for you, but the big bike makes more torque by 3500 rpm with the flies removed than the 1000's ever do...yesthe 14 also has the mechanical advantage you are referring to in ADDITION to the massive torque advantage
What is under the curve, and how wide the curve is tells the ENTIRE story.
I don't know many ppl who ride around town at 7-11,000 rpm all day, mostly 3-5000, at which point I am making the comparison of torquing around town.
Do a roll on with identical weight riders in 3rd gear, at 3000 rpm with both bikes, and my statement will become blatantly clear to anyone willing to admit it.
I have ridden the 08 1000 rr, and 08 zx10, both have much smaller ergonomics, less legroom, and far less torque or thrust as you put it, than the zx14.
Until your willing to be honest to yourself and accept your new 1000rr is NOT a giant killer in accelleration, comfort or torque, you need to shut up.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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Evilsports
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posted September 07, 2008 01:31 AM
Yeah. Pretty much what he said. ^^^^^^
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street racer
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posted September 07, 2008 06:25 AM
Edited By: street racer on 7 Sep 2008 07:27
Guess I will have to sell my GSXR1000 and just ride my ZX14 cuz it aint got thrust !!!! Will have to apologize to all the Busas I have raced and beaten....they must not have been reading the charts.
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butterthegreat
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posted September 07, 2008 08:55 AM
quote:
Since we have decided to become rude...
butterthegreat , you need to ride those bikes instead of reading about them...
The zx14 has a torque curve twice as wide as the literbikes, and 20% more torque at peak, never mind down low.
I won't waste my time finding graphs to post for you, but the big bike makes more torque by 3500 rpm with the flies removed than the 1000's ever do...yesthe 14 also has the mechanical advantage you are referring to in ADDITION to the massive torque advantage
What is under the curve, and how wide the curve is tells the ENTIRE story.
I don't know many ppl who ride around town at 7-11,000 rpm all day, mostly 3-5000, at which point I am making the comparison of torquing around town.
Do a roll on with identical weight riders in 3rd gear, at 3000 rpm with both bikes, and my statement will become blatantly clear to anyone willing to admit it.
I have ridden the 08 1000 rr, and 08 zx10, both have much smaller ergonomics, less legroom, and far less torque or thrust as you put it, than the zx14.
Until your willing to be honest to yourself and accept your new 1000rr is NOT a giant killer in accelleration, comfort or torque, you need to shut up.
Ride the bikes? I own the bikes.....08 CBR 1000rr and a ZX-14...trust me, I have ridden them and do so on a daily basis.
The article I posted just stated everything you just said....so what's your point? My point was that the actual numbers for torque AT PEAK aren't HUGELY different when you account for the sizes of the bikes. Not to mention I do trudge around town @ 3-6k ALL day on my 1000rr with plenty of power to move.....not as much as the ZX-14, but it's not painful.
On ergos...being 6'2" @ 300lbs I can fit comfortably on the 1000rr for hours....just as I can on the ZX-14....haven't topped 6 hours on either bike, but neither were as uncomfortable as you "say" they should be.
I don't know where you took the whole aspect that I was praising the 1000rr as the ZX-14 killer (which is how you are making it sound) but I wasn't. I didn't say it was MORE comfortable than the ZX-14....but even someone at my size can ride it comfortably for 5 hours. I also has enough torque to get me going @ below 5k with no issues.
I am fully aware, and admit, that the ZX-14 has the on tap power than any rider would crave over any literbike.....hence the reason I bought one.
So as I said....thrust and torque are DIFFERENT. Torque is the twisting force, and thrust is the pushing force. You people need to treat it that way.
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