icetee
Expert Class
Posts: 132
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posted July 15, 2008 09:52 AM
velocity stacks
I see where Schnitz is selling velocity stacks are they a ripe off?
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THE VIEW FROM THE REAR NEVER CHANGES,UNLESS YOUR IN THE FRONT!
  
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted July 15, 2008 10:05 AM
 Edited By: BobC on 15 Jul 2008 11:06
Not a rip off. The shorter stack is for more peak power and also some of the quality velocity stacks seal the frame better than the stock item which is ideal for Turbo applications.
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Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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icetee
Expert Class
Posts: 132
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posted July 15, 2008 10:35 AM
so do the velocity stacks work in conjunction with having the flies out to improve mid-range?
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THE VIEW FROM THE REAR NEVER CHANGES,UNLESS YOUR IN THE FRONT!
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countersteer
Needs a job
Didn't read the owners manual
Posts: 2207
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posted July 15, 2008 11:45 AM
i dont buy anything from factory pro. 
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Scott
Long Island, New York
2006 ZX-14, 2003 ZX-12R
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kawboy81
Expert Class
Busa Eater
Posts: 273
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posted July 15, 2008 06:39 PM
well I do. I ordered some of them stacks from schnitz and they will be in tomorrow. Ima throw em in and see what's up. That coupled with a 008 TRE should def lick my midrange in the a$$. How would y'all think they install?? Push in?? This bike isn't like the ol zx9 and getting to the throttle bodies is hard enough. I had good sucess with factory pros jet kit on my 9r so I figured hey what that hell. $200 shoot I better feel something.
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07 LE bolt on bike
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swiftkart
Expert Class
Posts: 349
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posted July 16, 2008 09:42 AM
quote:
I see where Schnitz is selling velocity stacks are they a ripe off?
I got a email from Ryan and they are going to Dyno the 2 sizes offered for the 14, he said he should have the results by Friday, they want to see if they get the same results Factory Pro is getting.
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2006 ZX14, Brock CT-Meg, PC, ignition module, E85, 214 lbs suited, 8.96@152.32 1.46 60'
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swiftkart
Expert Class
Posts: 349
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posted July 17, 2008 09:02 AM
Results - http://secure.mycart.net/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=4866093&showprevnext=1
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2006 ZX14, Brock CT-Meg, PC, ignition module, E85, 214 lbs suited, 8.96@152.32 1.46 60'
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted July 17, 2008 10:08 AM
assist:http://secure.mycart.net/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=4866093&showprevnext=1
Here is the words, with 3 dyno comparisons to back it up. Not much extra power, but it all adds up (along with the dollar signs).
"Street Stacks Features:
Suggested for all Street and Most Race Applications
Gains 4-5 Horsepower Through Midrange and 2 at 10,000 RPM with stock engine and stock exhaust*
Race Stacks Features:
Suggested for Drag Race Applications Only with Experienced Riders
Gains 4-5 Horsepower at 10,000 RPM and 2 through Midrange with stock engine and stock exhaust*
*Note - When dyno tuning with these stacks, tune for best power
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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fASTESTbUSAaROUND
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted July 17, 2008 03:26 PM
Sounds quite optimistic to me. I had read somewhere about some manufacturer claiming these types of gains before on stacks, and then the real Dyno tests actually showed a drop all across the board.
I like this one --
*Note - When dyno tuning with these stacks, tune for best power"
Duhhhh...when one tunes on a dyno, doesn't one normally tune for best power? 
Would I tune for "worst power" ?
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FYYFF!!!
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countersteer
Needs a job
Didn't read the owners manual
Posts: 2207
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posted July 17, 2008 05:49 PM
heres the thread, bill (zx1kr) tested factory pro stacks on an r1 and a DECREASE in power resulted
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=27&TID=31432
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Scott
Long Island, New York
2006 ZX-14, 2003 ZX-12R
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ninjaboy311
Zone Head
Posts: 940
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posted July 17, 2008 07:28 PM
I'll be the guinea pig for the ZX-14, I have a set on the way. Not sure when I can get them properly tuned, but I will drop them in and run it like that to see what it does first.
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Naarden Speedlinks Sponsored Rider
Schnitz Racing Sponsored Rider
8.74 @ 152 on stock motor and MR9 (Muzzy Powered), 205 lbs suited
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ratbyk
Expert Class
Posts: 179
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posted July 17, 2008 08:07 PM
As far as I'm concerned this would be a waste of $. Kawasaki have spent many $ developing the stacks that are already on the ZX14. Their stock stacks will be the right length for rev range that the engine is designed to operate over, If a few more HP could be found particularly through mid range than Kawi would have built it in. Whether the proper stack length is 2", 2 1/4', 2 3/8" what ever. Kawi will have already determined which length works best for their ZX14 motor.
These aftermarket lengths will be very questionable as to actually making any extra real HP.
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fASTESTbUSAaROUND
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted July 17, 2008 08:17 PM
On stacks, when you make gains on one area, you loose in others...and that's a fact Jack...not worth the effort or the cost..
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FYYFF!!!
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NCZX14
Expert Class
Posts: 108
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posted July 17, 2008 08:17 PM
I think the key thing is better sealing of the airbox for turbo applications.
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2K7 everything possible without going in the engine.
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swiftkart
Expert Class
Posts: 349
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posted July 18, 2008 10:34 AM
The link I posted was Ryan Schnitz himself testing the factory pro stacks to see if they worked before they decide to sell them, he proves they do work, but not as much of a gain as stated by factory pro, but a gain over the stock units for those wanting every littler bit for racing, not worth it for the average street rider.
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2006 ZX14, Brock CT-Meg, PC, ignition module, E85, 214 lbs suited, 8.96@152.32 1.46 60'
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ryan schnitz
Novice Class
Posts: 63
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posted July 18, 2008 11:08 AM
Our own testing with aftermarket exhaust, slightly modifed engine, and race fuel
Street Stacks - 2-3 Horsepower gain through upper midrange up to peak
Race Stacks - 3-4 Horsepower gain at top end with some improvements in midrange
Worth the money in our option.
Installation takes about 10 minutes... quick and simple. Seal up great and slide right on!
Customer who owned the bike bought a set when we where done.
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ryan schnitz
Novice Class
Posts: 63
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posted July 18, 2008 11:14 AM
quote:
Sounds quite optimistic to me. I had read somewhere about some manufacturer claiming these types of gains before on stacks, and then the real Dyno tests actually showed a drop all across the board.
I like this one --
*Note - When dyno tuning with these stacks, tune for best power"
Duhhhh...when one tunes on a dyno, doesn't one normally tune for best power?
Would I tune for "worst power" ?
Some dyno shops tune to air/fuel ratio only and don't look at the power numbers... Bad sensors, clogged filters, emmission systems, even old spark plugs can throw that reading off.... causing you to run map the bike on the rich side.
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busajack5
Expert Class
Rocket lll
Posts: 173
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posted July 18, 2008 04:58 PM
Good god,Iam a dumb old bastard but even I know that stacks only make power at a certain rpm. Dont you guys even know about the new R1 and V max having stacks that rise and fall with throttle opening. If they are fixed they only increase power at one RPM. The little rubber stacks that are stock are a compromise for the entire RPM band..Let me know if Iam wrong..Follow what the factorys do not the aftermarket. Who has the enginers and R&D time that are better than the factory? Theres more misinformation on the net than anywhere else. All these full systems and 11000 rpm hp gains must make your bikes put out much less HP before 8000 rpm. Do you guys ever do roll ons at 4000rpm?
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Jack
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted July 18, 2008 05:14 PM
Jack, you are forgetting that the factory also has emissions to worry about, and streetability for the riders who rarely venture north of 7K. Just look at those godawful secondary flies!
Engineering degrees do one thing: allow you to factor out or in ideas without having to trial and error it on working products. Thats it, doesn't matter if you are working at Boeing designing the 787 or at Kawasaki designing the then new ZX14. Once guys like Bryant and ZX1K get ahold of it, they spend considerable shop hours doing the common sense ideas + trial and error to find ways to tweak small areas of the bike to give them an edge, either with there customers or there own bikes.
Those are the kind of hours that every single manufacturer on earth wishes they had the luxury of having AFTER they designed a product and refined it to the delivery stage. Once at that delivery stage, they cannot afford to spend there engineering time on fixing the little issues like stack lengths or adding a couple degrees down low and retarding a bit up top for all out performance, they have to get the product to the shop floors to meet a deadline.
They just trust its a good enough product to make there money back and then some, knowing the guys in the industry will cover the small things for them. quid pro quo.
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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kawboy81
Expert Class
Busa Eater
Posts: 273
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posted July 18, 2008 05:27 PM
I agree with u but I also believe that stacks would only show real world power WITH ram air. That you reallly won't see much of a gain in a stuffy trailered dyno. R&D would develop a product/part according to what they are trying to achieve. If there are limitations ie. Emissions, governs, restrictions etc they have to follow then what they end up may not be what's BEST only what the laws etc require. Trust me I know this if nothing else.
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07 LE bolt on bike
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted July 18, 2008 05:30 PM
quote:
Installation takes about 10 minutes... quick and simple. .
i say bullshit .... 10 minutes or they are free ....it takes 10 minutes just to get to the airfilter
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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bawls
Needs a job
re-learning to ride
Posts: 2701
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posted July 18, 2008 05:36 PM
lol it takes me 10 minutes to pull the damn upper tank loose. I'm severely ADD though, so i usually take out the trash and check the mail at the same time.
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Best 60ft: 1.42
Best 1/8th: 5.97
Best 1/8th MPH: 119
Brockland Police Badge # 001
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ninjaboy311
Zone Head
Posts: 940
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posted July 21, 2008 09:08 AM
quote:
quote:
Installation takes about 10 minutes... quick and simple. .
i say bullshit .... 10 minutes or they are free ....it takes 10 minutes just to get to the airfilter
I'm sure he means 10 minutes AFTER YOU HAVE THE PLASTICS REMOVED AND THE AIR BOX OPEN.
10 to get to the air box, 10 to install the stacks, and 10 to re-install the plastics. 30 minutes total I would say.
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Naarden Speedlinks Sponsored Rider
Schnitz Racing Sponsored Rider
8.74 @ 152 on stock motor and MR9 (Muzzy Powered), 205 lbs suited
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busajack5
Expert Class
Rocket lll
Posts: 173
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posted July 21, 2008 12:47 PM
quote:
Jack, you are forgetting that the factory also has emissions to worry about, and streetability for the riders who rarely venture north of 7K. Just look at those godawful secondary flies!
Engineering degrees do one thing: allow you to factor out or in ideas without having to trial and error it on working products. Thats it, doesn't matter if you are working at Boeing designing the 787 or at Kawasaki designing the then new ZX14. Once guys like Bryant and ZX1K get ahold of it, they spend considerable shop hours doing the common sense ideas + trial and error to find ways to tweak small areas of the bike to give them an edge, either with there customers or there own bikes.
Those are the kind of hours that every single manufacturer on earth wishes they had the luxury of having AFTER they designed a product and refined it to the delivery stage. Once at that delivery stage, they cannot afford to spend there engineering time on fixing the little issues like stack lengths or adding a couple degrees down low and retarding a bit up top for all out performance, they have to get the product to the shop floors to meet a deadline.
They just trust its a good enough product to make there money back and then some, knowing the guys in the industry will cover the small things for them. quid pro quo.
Sticks I totaly agree with you but when you think about HP before emission controls we havent lost much to the EPA. A clean engine is a powerful engine. Lean is mean. Yes for drag racing you can get a little more but how many are serious drag racers. I can turn my honda civc into a drag car but wouldn't want to use it for grocery shopping. The research and development time isn't worth the 2 HP that you get for it. HP per dollar is the key. But if I had your money I would throw mine away. So go for it. TEHE
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Jack
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted July 21, 2008 01:51 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Installation takes about 10 minutes... quick and simple. .
i say bullshit .... 10 minutes or they are free ....it takes 10 minutes just to get to the airfilter
I'm sure he means 10 minutes AFTER YOU HAVE THE PLASTICS REMOVED AND THE AIR BOX OPEN.
10 to get to the air box, 10 to install the stacks, and 10 to re-install the plastics. 30 minutes total I would say.
and thats if you don't bust that stupid well-nut on the frame and have to start all over ...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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