kawboy81
Expert Class
Busa Eater
Posts: 273
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posted July 11, 2008 01:26 AM
easiest way to remove flies
just wondering what is the easiest way to remove flies without stripping out the screws. I noticed after attempting the are 2 screws that u have to approach at a angle and were difficult to reach!? What worked for you guys?? Smaller screwdriver or what? Thanks
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07 LE bolt on bike
  
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StrokedOutZX14
Novice Class
Saving for a turbo by tax time
Posts: 55
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posted July 11, 2008 01:46 AM
 Edited By: StrokedOutZX14 on 11 Jul 2008 02:48
i used a regular screw driver, found one that fit well, applied pressure, even on the 2 ends with angles, and took them out. I also put a soldering gun on the screw head for about 30 seconds to heat the factory installed lock tight. use a magnetic tip screw driver also and take your time.
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07 ZX14 Stroked to 1530cc
Muzzy 5mm Stroker Crank, 86mm JE Pistons, Carillo Connecting Rods, Muzzy Billet Cams, Muzzy Valve Springs, Rings, Pins, Clips.
Muzzy M10 Exhaust
K&N Air Filter
Power Commander 3 With Ignition Module.
Secondaries Removed
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jus cruisin
Novice Class
Old Dude
Posts: 53
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posted July 11, 2008 02:51 AM
Did the "hold the screwdriver tip in the flame of a torch" way. Then inserted the srewdriver in a screw held with just a little pressure and as the loctite melted, the screw would backout. It didn't take a bunch of pressure on the screws to break them loose that way. Mine are now back in. I proved on a dyno they help the 08 hp #'s ( I lost up to 2 hp throughout the rev range and did not pick up any on the bottom).
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2008 ZX-14 Midnight Sapphire Blue
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fifth
Expert Class
The Magnificent Bastard
Posts: 303
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posted July 11, 2008 03:49 AM
I don't think any of us with 07's picked up horses on the bottom....I believe it was all torque.
I haen't re-dynoed my bike again since pulling the flies. I am still planning on a few other mods before I dyno it again.
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted July 11, 2008 08:40 AM
quote:
I don't think any of us with 07's picked up horses on the bottom....I believe it was all torque.
I haen't re-dynoed my bike again since pulling the flies. I am still planning on a few other mods before I dyno it again.
Jeez... you, umm, DO realize that Torque IS horsepower, right? You cannot gain torque without gaining horsepower at any given RPM! Removing the flies simply brings the torque curve to where it should be, nice and flat. Which raises the HP figures at lower RPMs by default.
And for the record, as I repudiated in Cruzin's other thread, no other 14 owner has submitted to losing peak HP when they removed flies, so its either a mapping issue or a dyno issue. While theoretically possible that the secondary butterfly valves (flies) when fully open could help the airflow straighten out on there way through the throttle bodies, it has yet to ever be proven or dyno'd.
If any of you has dyno evidence to support cruisin, nows the time to pony up!
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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200hp_zx14
Expert Class
Posts: 134
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posted July 11, 2008 10:50 AM
Just get a long #2 cross tip. Open everything up and when you set the screwdriver on the head of the screw, tap it with a hammer to set it pretty deep into the screw head. Twist to remove. Have an magnetic screw driver or one of those magnets on an extended pen type deals.
Go slow and if you feel the screw start to strip, stop and try to reset the srewdriver tip. If you go slow you won't strip the screw and you can start over. Or put it all back together and take it to someone else to do if your scared.
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207HP* '06 Candy Blue ZX-14
Some mods done
Best run - 10.19@137.40mph
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jus cruisin
Novice Class
Old Dude
Posts: 53
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posted July 11, 2008 11:15 AM
Edited By: jus cruisin on 11 Jul 2008 12:18
Sticks and Stones-
I don't have a print out with the flies out. I'll get the print out when I run my Yoshimura setup. I haven't had my bike at the shop when they had the dyno openned up ( I sneak it on before or after they are doing some diag work or a dyno tune). Everything has been on the same dyno (DynoJet Winpep7) and the dyno is fine. Keep in mind, my 08 when bone stock compared to a bone stock 06 had close to 15hp more at just under 4,000rpm. My peak horsepower was almost 7hp less than the stock 06. The 08 redesign has made some big improvements on the bottom. With the full system, I picked up mostly upper rpm hp gains not much more on the bottom end. It was then that I found out the flies out didn't improve anything and actually dropped peak hp.
I'll post up copies of the runs as soon as I can get the copies around AND figure out how to scan and post them. That could be a problem for this ole fart.
I do remember you questioning my findings. I have no reson to make up the story. But, I haven't seen anyone posting any gains on 08's that can be proven on a dyno, either. Most of the guys are using their "butt dyno" which isn't the most accurate, I've found. Now, I could have had a full blown custom tune done and found some lost hp, but Iike feel of the bike with them in. It seems crisper under normal riding conditions.
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2008 ZX-14 Midnight Sapphire Blue
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted July 11, 2008 11:19 AM
not saying you are making anything up cruisin, hell I'm just trying to find out for myself if there's an issue particular to the '08 model. I've seen and read plenty of dyno runs with/without the flies where the topend wasnt affected on the '06 and '07 models.
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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Learning2race
Expert Class
Posts: 138
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posted July 11, 2008 11:23 AM
My process for successfuly removing any screw/bolt with Loc-tite is to apply a small amount of pressure and turn the fastener as if you were TIGHTENING it more. This will break the Loc-tite quickly and backing out becomes a simple issue thereafter.
This works because the liquid Loc-tite gets pushed backwards on the threads as the screw is tightened - the "lock" occurs when a glob of Loc-tite forms and hardens. Trying to back the screw out can become a problem because you are trying to overcome this large mass. The front threads, conversely, have little material on them as is has mostly been pushed backwards in the tightening process. A small amount of extra force forward (tightening) causes the Loc-tite to break loose much easier.
Just my experience - may or may not work for you.
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blackmagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
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posted July 11, 2008 11:24 AM
Dynojet Winpep7?? that is a software program not a dyno just FYI..
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kaw now
Expert Class
Posts: 446
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posted July 11, 2008 12:17 PM
Do not tap it with a hammer you may bend the shaft and cause the shaft to bind sending a trouble code to the computer requiring repairs. Hammer bad. Leave in tool box.
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BIGZXDADDY
Expert Class
Posts: 270
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posted July 12, 2008 10:11 AM
apply as much downward pressure as you can when breaking the screw loose to prevent stripping. use the correct size screwdriver and no hammers
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"never drive faster than you can see, besides it's all in the reflexes"
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200hp_zx14
Expert Class
Posts: 134
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posted July 12, 2008 10:15 AM
Edited By: 200hp_zx14 on 12 Jul 2008 13:44
quote:
Do not tap it with a hammer you may bend the shaft and cause the shaft to bind sending a trouble code to the computer requiring repairs. Hammer bad. Leave in tool box.
I didn't mean smash the screwdriver with all of your might. I said to tap the back of the screwdriver to make sure the head is set into the screw.
This technique worked perfectly fine for me and a few hundred others.
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207HP* '06 Candy Blue ZX-14
Some mods done
Best run - 10.19@137.40mph
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stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted July 12, 2008 10:24 AM
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2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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FasterThanStink
Pro
Posts: 1218
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posted July 12, 2008 10:56 AM
quote:
And how many time have you REPOSTED that?
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Speed has never killed anyone,
suddenly becoming stationary...
That's what gets you.
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stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted July 12, 2008 01:52 PM
lmao - well its been a while !
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2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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fASTESTbUSAaROUND
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted July 12, 2008 06:55 PM
Damn -- putting the flies back in? Might as well get a fucking Vespa...
I'd say a 10-15+ LB TQ boost at the rear wheel @3500 RPM adds a whole fuck of power...who gives a fuck about MAX HP in the street anyway...and BTW, no fucking way do you loose power on top or anywhere else with them removed. 
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FYYFF!!!
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jus cruisin
Novice Class
Old Dude
Posts: 53
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posted July 13, 2008 07:16 AM
quote:
Damn -- putting the flies back in? Might as well get a fucking Vespa...
I'd say a 10-15+ LB TQ boost at the rear wheel @3500 RPM adds a whole fuck of power...who gives a fuck about MAX HP in the street anyway...and BTW, no fucking way do you loose power on top or anywhere else with them removed.
I have all my runs stored on the dyno computer. What I post is what the dyno reports. Our dyno is a 250ix. It isn't one of the 150 "feel good" dynos. We've had bikes putting out over 260 hp on it. There was no jump in hp anywhere on the hp curve with the flies out.. My 08 had at least 10 hp in bottom end gains over a stock 06. I installed the M-10 and PCIII with the flies in and got some big gains gains but mostly in upper RPM areas. Then a couple weeks later I pulled the flies and put in on the dyno with a Muzzy flies out map and lost hp up and down the rpm range - basically the same curve that dipped below the flies in down low (where it is supposed to make all the difference) and then at peak. I thought I picked up bottom punch but it was obviously in my mind. I beleive the dyno results no my butt dyno.
I have no clue where you live, but if you are in Florida, you're more than welcome to bring your 08 by and we'll spin it for no charge. I want to see the huge gains you've gotten with your flies out vs. mine. My guess is you don't have the huge gains on your 08 that you imagine.
The biggest hp # we have ever had for a ZX-14 is 175 and change. Ours is not a "feel good" dyno that can be modified and we've tested a couple bikes on our and MMI's dyno in Orlando with very similar results (meaning there isn't anythig "wrong" with ours).
Keep in mind, I only said what I found to be true on MY bike and what I have done to MY bike based on the dyno runs. My biggest help was ditching the stock exhaust with all the restrictions it has. I didn't have to remove the flies to get the bottom end punch you are talking about.t was there from the factory.
I have yet to see an 08 dyno report posted that shows these big gains (only variable being the flies in/out). If there is, aim me toward it. I am not saying I know it all. Far from it. I was just reposrting facts (my results) not myths/hearsay on the 08.
As I said earlier, I'll get the dyno computer runs overlayed on one sheet when they have the dyno openned up and they aren't busy making money with it..
PM me and I will make sure we can accomodate you with a few pulls some day.
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2008 ZX-14 Midnight Sapphire Blue
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted July 13, 2008 07:52 AM
Edited By: bigdtd on 13 Jul 2008 09:05
maybe a different pipe would help, i do not see how the flies out could hurt horsepower unless the mapping or exhaust or air intake was suspect. i thought they made the m14 different from the m10 to address 08 issues.
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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jus cruisin
Novice Class
Old Dude
Posts: 53
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posted July 13, 2008 12:15 PM
The couple hp difference could very well have been the the different day.....that would not surprise me but as I said even with different atmospheric conditions and temperature, if the flies out on an 08 made a big difference, it would have shown up.
Not trying to create a big controversy. All I was doing was passing on information I had gathered with my bike. I am convinced that with the flies openning so much faster on the 08's it doesn't mean as much as it did with the 06/07's.
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2008 ZX-14 Midnight Sapphire Blue
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swiftnet
Novice Class
Posts: 88
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posted July 13, 2008 01:07 PM
In 2wheeltuna Ricky G's 08 has the flies out. I'd think his tuner would know what tweaks to apply. I'm wondering if it is a mapping issue...
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Keeping the rubber side down since 1984
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man00
Novice Class
Posts: 93
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posted July 13, 2008 02:24 PM
I heard of a few people putting the flies back in on a 08, same story lost a few HP with them out.
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paikia
Parking Attendant
Posts: 10
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posted July 14, 2008 01:54 AM
quote:
The couple hp difference could very well have been the the different day.....that would not surprise me but as I said even with different atmospheric conditions and temperature, if the flies out on an 08 made a big difference, it would have shown up.
Not trying to create a big controversy. All I was doing was passing on information I had gathered with my bike. I am convinced that with the flies openning so much faster on the 08's it doesn't mean as much as it did with the 06/07's.
I still have my Secondary Throttle Flies in. I was told it would help on my low ends as i ride it around everyday in heavy traffic. It should not cause too much diff in the high end as it will still open to the max. The lost in hp should be little or insignificant.
Correct me if i'm wrong...
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'06 ZX 14, Brocks Hindle aka Gen 3, PCIII, BMC Race Air Filter, Block Off Plates inserted, Flies off, Humble 176hp at wheel.
No Ram Air Effect, map from my mech exp.
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kawabonzai
Zone Head
Leader of the Back.
Posts: 537
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posted July 14, 2008 08:09 PM
Go to Lowes, get the 7-inch Klein #2 screwdriver.
Prop the tank up, remove plates.
When removing the flies make sure the screwdriver is at a 90d egree angle to the screw, just 5% off and you have problems.
I applied JUST ENOUGH pressure to "crack open" the screw, maybe 10 degree turn.
Repeat process SLOWLY and they'll come out no prob.
No heat involved.
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PC-III w/USB, Muzzys M14 + Carbon Oval + M10, BMC Race Filter, Flies Out, Buell Pegs, Heli Risers
www.TucsonSportRiders.com - Tucson's Premier SportRider Community
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