ZREXER
Expert Class
Posts: 492
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posted June 14, 2008 12:42 PM
I have to agree with Fish on this one..........no lawyers.
Sure, take on Kawasaki.........GOOD LUCK!
The case would take so long to get settled most of us would be in retirement homes, drooling and in diapers before it was ever settled!
Kawaskai is a huge corporation. I would argue that making mortocycles for them is more of a 'prestige thing' than a big money maker considering all the other heavy manufacturing they do.
The case would go on for years with all sorts of delays to wear out and discourage the suing party.
There have been a lot of 'over the top' comments regarding this issue (some from me as well!).
The fact is Kawasaki obviously did not purposely put defective bikes in our hands. The frame technology was proven in the ZX-12R, no reason for them to think it would not be as strong in the ZX-14.
I did have some worries buying a first year bike, but if I had not bought an '06, I would have bought an '07 for sure and would have not avoided this issue anyway as a result. I am not sure if that is comforting or not!
The '14 is likely to have a fairly long build cycle and incremental improvements will be made each year. It will get more advanced electronics, maybe variable valve timing. Once they have more time to work on the new emissions/noise regs, I am sure they will make more power as well.
For us 'early adopters' with problems or potential problems I realize this is 'cold comfort'.
In the mean time, I will ride my bike, keep checking it and try not to let this issue destroy my enjoyment of the bike.
  
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted June 14, 2008 03:06 PM
I'm sorry, but I can't see any way that there is any *legal* tie to having a vehicle recalled and someone having to make loan payments on that vehicle. It may suck, but legally they're apples and oranges.
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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BlueLightning
Expert Class
Posts: 227
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posted June 14, 2008 06:08 PM
Well fish if this was your only transportation and you need it to get to work everyday and its tied up for a month or two do to manufacture issues then is it my responsibility to rent and pay for that vehicle until i get mine back??
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FasterThanStink
Pro
Posts: 1218
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posted June 14, 2008 06:18 PM
I bought the bike with the reasonable expectation of riding it and not having it tied up for the summer. Kawi is handling it poorly and will get sued. Mark my word.
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Speed has never killed anyone,
suddenly becoming stationary...
That's what gets you.
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted June 14, 2008 06:48 PM
quote:
Well fish if this was your only transportation and you need it to get to work everyday and its tied up for a month or two do to manufacture issues then is it my responsibility to rent and pay for that vehicle until i get mine back??
is that truly your situation or are you just saying that? i believe most members are not commuters
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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Tool man
Needs a job
Posts: 4493
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posted June 14, 2008 07:27 PM
quote:
quote:
Well fish if this was your only transportation and you need it to get to work everyday and its tied up for a month or two do to manufacture issues then is it my responsibility to rent and pay for that vehicle until i get mine back??
is that truly your situation or are you just saying that? i believe most members are not commuters
I do, while not my only transport it is surely my most cost effectine with deisel @ 5 f-ing bucks a gallon. I have inspected mine and no cracks can be seen. I will be looking over the mechanics shoulder next week when they do my bike inspection. If it comes out it is over torqued so be it. But someone at Mama Kaw will get an ear full...can you hear me now?
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The banks are failing..
The banks are failing...
Invest in Ammo
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MJ
Zone Head
Posts: 560
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posted June 14, 2008 07:59 PM
quote:
I bought the bike with the reasonable expectation of riding it and not having it tied up for the summer. Kawi is handling it poorly and will get sued. Mark my word.
They've already been threatened with legal action and bought back a guys bike with rod problems. And they'll be buying back more for this. Just like they and every other manufacturer has done at one time or another. I doubt it'll be a class action....but it WILL happen on a case by case basis. Thats how they work. And its very do-able if you want to spend some money to get another bike. The squeaky wheels do get lubed lol. Its cheaper to go the dealer rebuild route if your frames cracked....but sometimes (for me anyways) its worth paying some money for peace of mind and a satisfying and clear-cut end to a problem.
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smokinzx14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted June 14, 2008 09:18 PM
Go take legal action if you like , it's a free county ...I'm taking no action other than the recall ...I know my torq is in spec and i have no cracks ... I'm keeping my zx14 till something better comes along and that maybe a very long long time ...Even if i had to replace my frame i would keep the bike and just double check all the bolts like i do before every race .. It's not that big of deal to look over your bike and check for lose bolts ..Hell i found lose bolts right out of the crate !!! If the dealer is going to replace your frame take your body work and lose bolts home with you...Just tell the dealer you will reinstall them when you get the bike back home ....That way you can look over the bike and double check everything before the body work is installed ... I don't think the dealer will mind because it's less work for him plus he doesn't have to worry about damage to the body work sitting around his shop .. In a year from now this will all be history and one thing us Americans are good at is forgetting history ..lol...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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blackbullet76
Pro
Posts: 1134
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posted June 15, 2008 04:33 AM
I wonder what kawi will do if the frame cracks sometime after the the bike was brought in for the recall and passed? Mine passed the torque and visual test. If it cracks in the future, will they still replace it or blame it on my mods?
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2007 ZX-14 black
Brocks s-meg exhaust
PCIII w/track map
BMC race filter
Flies removed
16 tooth front sprocket
Speedohealer
APE cam chain tensioner
Vortex rearsets
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BlueLightning
Expert Class
Posts: 227
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posted June 15, 2008 06:42 AM
No its not my only transportation, but even if the bike is put together like at the factory which I don't believe because the shop manager told me KAWI is no paying for enough time to do it. Even when I take in my car for an extended service (at least at acura) they give me a car to drive until the service is done at no cost other than put gas back in the tank. If the bike is out for couple months shouldn't get a loaner vehicle?????
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AZMike
Parking Attendant
Posts: 1
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posted June 15, 2008 07:01 AM
For whoever is keeping count, my "07 ZX14 (600 miles) was just serviced and the bolts broke loose @37.9 ft. lbs. They could see no cracks in the frame assembly and re-torqued the bolts to 44 ft. lbs. It's probably too new to tell if there is a problem. I will be keeping an eye on the area. I'd hate to be going a buck40 and have the rear end fall off. Can't wait until it's 127 degrees out here in Arizona. Maybe the tires will get stickier and I can do that turn at 90 instead of 60.
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AZMike
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BIG BLUE_ZX14
Expert Class
Posts: 374
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posted June 15, 2008 07:43 AM
There is some very inconsistant dealer activity going on! My bike failed the torque test and the dealer insisted that the engine be pulled to inspect the frame but refused to do so until the recall kit (which apparently has more than just a few bolts) arrived at the shop. Any bike that fails the torque test should have the engine pulled (and if there are no cracks) at least have the bolts replaced, right? Not just retorqued. Cracked frame or not im not letting my 14 go. It is by far the best bike i've ever ridden. And while it is a pain in the ass not to have it during the riding "season" it hasn't cost me a cent. I am happy with the manner my dealer is handling all of this. I don't believe we can have the same expectation for our bikes as we would for our cars as far as loners and reparations. The scale at which car dealers/manufacturers operate is far bigger than those of bike dealers.
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2012 Blue on Black ZX14R with Go Faster Stuff...
2007 Blue ZX14 Gone...
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diablozx14
Parking Attendant
Posts: 30
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posted June 15, 2008 09:05 AM
I took my 07 into the dealer last thursday and they told me they would not be able to get started on it till monday or tuesday. They did tell me they had another one in there waiting on a frame and if my POS needed the same thing I was looking at 6 weeks of down time. I didnt bitch too much, I did try getting a 08 14 or a 08 Busa as a loaner with no luck, I didnt expect it but figured I would ask anyway.
As for the guys taking this lightly I dont understand your logic. Yes it blows being without your bike for a week let alone 2 months but to me better safe than sorry. God forbid something let loose while doing 160 because you want to be ignorant to the recall and I'm sure you wont limp away from that. My .02 just like everyone else.
Seth
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07 Diablo Black ZX14 Dead Crawlin!
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BlueLightning
Expert Class
Posts: 227
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posted June 15, 2008 09:15 AM
diablozx14 My bike sitting in a shop for 6 weeks in pieces makes me very unhappy.
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ZREXER
Expert Class
Posts: 492
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posted June 15, 2008 02:24 PM
quote:
For whoever is keeping count, my "07 ZX14 (600 miles) was just serviced and the bolts broke loose @37.9 ft. lbs. They could see no cracks in the frame assembly and re-torqued the bolts to 44 ft. lbs. It's probably too new to tell if there is a problem. I will be keeping an eye on the area. I'd hate to be going a buck40 and have the rear end fall off. Can't wait until it's 127 degrees out here in Arizona. Maybe the tires will get stickier and I can do that turn at 90 instead of 60.
I hope they dead not torque the bolts to 44 ft. lbs. Nuts on engine bolts are 44 ft. lbs, but the bolts which are attached to the collars are 11ft. lbs (changed from original spec of 18 ft. lbs.). You have to hold the bolt(bolt is connected to the collars) when you torque up the nuts or the collars will spin in the frame increasing the torque on them from what you originally set them at. This is not hard to do, but I think many dealers will just spin the nuts back on without holding the bolts so they don't spin. Probably why so many bikes were over torqued coming out of the factory.
One problem with this recall will be the vast inconsistancy as to how the various dealers go about it. Some will do it correctly................many others will not really read or if they do read the bulletin, not do it correctly.
Many of you will get your engine pulled for no real reason (depending on how the dealer checks for the collar torque.)
That is why I checked my own machine.
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MJ
Zone Head
Posts: 560
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posted June 15, 2008 07:23 PM
quote:
quote:
For whoever is keeping count, my "07 ZX14 (600 miles) was just serviced and the bolts broke loose @37.9 ft. lbs. They could see no cracks in the frame assembly and re-torqued the bolts to 44 ft. lbs. It's probably too new to tell if there is a problem. I will be keeping an eye on the area. I'd hate to be going a buck40 and have the rear end fall off. Can't wait until it's 127 degrees out here in Arizona. Maybe the tires will get stickier and I can do that turn at 90 instead of 60.
I hope they dead not torque the bolts to 44 ft. lbs. Nuts on engine bolts are 44 ft. lbs, but the bolts which are attached to the collars are 11ft. lbs (changed from original spec of 18 ft. lbs.). You have to hold the bolt(bolt is connected to the collars) when you torque up the nuts or the collars will spin in the frame increasing the torque on them from what you originally set them at. This is not hard to do, but I think many dealers will just spin the nuts back on without holding the bolts so they don't spin. Probably why so many bikes were over torqued coming out of the factory.
One problem with this recall will be the vast inconsistancy as to how the various dealers go about it. Some will do it correctly................many others will not really read or if they do read the bulletin, not do it correctly.
Many of you will get your engine pulled for no real reason (depending on how the dealer checks for the collar torque.)
That is why I checked my own machine.
Yep thats exactly how its going to shake down. And there will be some frames that go into the dealer fine that wouldn't have cracked normally, but will crack after the dealership improperly retorques them. It really pays to do your own work on bikes when at all possible 
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tlm1762
Parking Attendant
Runnin' With The Devil
Posts: 30
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posted June 15, 2008 08:45 PM
Hey guys, just my chime in on the subject. Had mine checked out at the Kawasaki dealer in Mesa Arizona on Friday. Only took about 45 minutes & I was out the door with no problems. Good luck to each & every one of you.
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BlueLightning
Expert Class
Posts: 227
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posted June 16, 2008 08:36 AM
UPDATE: Kawasaki Canada has NO BOLT kits to replace the old ones once the motor is pulled out until mid July. So now my bike is stuck at the shop for the next MONTH!!!! Come on you make a recall and you don't have parts in stock???? Fish tell me I should be happy now??? They cannot remove the motor until they have a bolt kit as per kawasaki. Then what the frame maybe cracked and wait another 6 weeks for a frame??????
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shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted June 16, 2008 11:41 AM
Are the replacement frames the new 2008 type...how can one tell?
Has anyone seen any differences in the frame design on the new models?
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slates
Expert Class
Posts: 377
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posted June 16, 2008 12:13 PM
quote:
Are the replacement frames the new 2008 type...how can one tell?
Has anyone seen any differences in the frame design on the new models?
+1 ?
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black zx14 - Brock's Gen3 Carbon, PCIII, no secondaries, Carrozzeria wheels, Sato rearsets, Pazzo levers, GPR V4 steering damper, Puig windscreen, Tiger Racing chain guard
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ZREXER
Expert Class
Posts: 492
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posted June 16, 2008 02:15 PM
quote:
UPDATE: Kawasaki Canada has NO BOLT kits to replace the old ones once the motor is pulled out until mid July. So now my bike is stuck at the shop for the next MONTH!!!! Come on you make a recall and you don't have parts in stock???? Fish tell me I should be happy now??? They cannot remove the motor until they have a bolt kit as per kawasaki. Then what the frame maybe cracked and wait another 6 weeks for a frame??????
Exactly why I did my own check yesterday of the torque on the engine collars.
My bike is retorqued to the new spec's. I will monitor the frame every time I lube the chain.
I am not going near a dealer with it right now...........maybe in a few months when Kawaski gets their shit together.
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BIG BLUE_ZX14
Expert Class
Posts: 374
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posted June 16, 2008 02:39 PM
UPDATE: The dealer pulled my engine over the weekend and the frame passed inspection, no cracks! I should get it back tomorrow.
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2012 Blue on Black ZX14R with Go Faster Stuff...
2007 Blue ZX14 Gone...
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rudebwoy
Expert Class
Posts: 136
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posted June 16, 2008 04:01 PM
this sucks, I have been methodically and diligently saving up and just finally bought a extended 240 swingarm kit and new wheels to put on my 14, over $5k worth of goodies. I recieved my recall notice on 6/2/2008 called my local dealer the following day to set up an appointment and they state they cant accomodate me until mid-July.
The recall noice states boldly and clearly "DO NOT RIDE THE MOTORCYLE", that statement in and of itself will legally cover Kawi's butt if anything were to happen while riding. Kawi obviously has no control over when my dealer can take me but a month and a half sounds excessive. In the meanwhile I'm stuck with all these cool new mods that I dare not have installed because I dont quite know if the installation of mods can lend toward redirecting blame for breakage back to me the owner presuming my torque value is off and/or my frame is cracked. That and do I want to drop it off at the dealer and allow the guys there to steal joyrides on my newly modded ride. What if they scratch my new sparkly wheels! It just seems like good sense to wait until I get the bike back but alas it's all time consuming..
Included in my bag of mods is a set of 'RaceRailz' which I have chosen to use instead of my Muzzy sliders. To install them you have to remove to top/rear engine mount bolt...again a very touchy and sensitive region..evidently. So I'm stuck sitting on my hands for almost 6-weeks until I can take my bike in to be inspected, Hopefully they will look at it the same day and if it passes inspection I can then have these mods installed. If not I'll assume I'm down and out until the end of the fall.
I've read some others bring up their concerns regarding bike mods but has anyone else gotten a clear sense and assurance modifications whether performance or cosmetic will have no bearing on the eligibility of the bike to remain covered for the stated issue outlined in the recall notice for the long-term.
I did plan on holding onto this bike for a very long time, thus far my ownership experience has been a pleasing one but also like others this news is difficult to sit at ease in my head. Will I always wonder if something will crack especiallly when I'm pushing things along at speed going town twisty roads...will the bike be relegated to little better than cruiser duties 'just in case'. Did I spend all this money (plus interest) along with the thousands of dollars worth of modifications to end up being saddled with an inherently compromised vehicle. I cant sell it, it's resale will likely have tanked, I cant afford to take the bath on the financial loss...
bah!!! Perhaps my issues and questions are just mental and there physically is little to be concerned about..
Just like 'ZREXER' I waited after the initial year to get the bike, thinking out the kinks that might need working out for a first year product...sigh..
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'05 Triumph Speed Triple
'06 Triumph Daytona 675
'07 Kawasaki ZX-14
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brunobp
Parking Attendant
Posts: 18
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posted June 16, 2008 06:12 PM
I had just sold my 14 and then the recall came through. I called the buyer and told him of the recall and he agreed to wait to see what extent of the recall it would need. Fortunately, mine made it through the first round and was fine. Now I am ready for my C-14.
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted June 16, 2008 06:15 PM
 Edited By: fish_antlers on 16 Jun 2008 19:16
quote:
UPDATE: Kawasaki Canada has NO BOLT kits to replace the old ones once the motor is pulled out until mid July. So now my bike is stuck at the shop for the next MONTH!!!! Come on you make a recall and you don't have parts in stock???? Fish tell me I should be happy now??? They cannot remove the motor until they have a bolt kit as per kawasaki. Then what the frame maybe cracked and wait another 6 weeks for a frame??????
Not sure why you're asking me... Sounds like KMC is taking care of its owners... Don't know what to tell you about Canada. Call them?
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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