Boss69
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted June 09, 2008 03:28 PM
I spoke with the dealership I bought my bike from and was very pleased. Service Manager said I could give them a headsup if I wanted, but no appointment was necessary. Just bring it in. He explained that the initial check was pretty quick and if all was Ok that was it. He also said that if the intial check showed something they would go to the next level, which I think he said would take a couple of hours...??, and then if needed to the next and final level which he said could take up to 6 hours. They were very good about it.
I am going to try and get it there this week (not sure if I will ride it or trailer it?), if I can get a day off.
I will post my experience.
Hope for the Best!
____________
'07 Blue ZX-14 Turbo (FOR SALE)
'07 Victory Jackpot Ness Edition (FOR SALE)
'04 EX500, for son and wife to learn on.(sold)
'78 Z1-R (sold)
'75 Z1 900 (sold)
  
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted June 09, 2008 03:37 PM
 Edited By: fish_antlers on 9 Jun 2008 18:40
I need to stress to everyone (and it's a point I've been trying to make) that owners need to remain calm and let the inspection process take place. I also want to curtail discussion in the direction that fury was taking this. It really is unreasonable for people to be throwing around talk of lawyers. It simply doesn't make sense.
Give your dealer and Kawasaki a fair chance to make your bike right.
All I'm asking.
____________
What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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FasterThanStink
Pro
Posts: 1218
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posted June 09, 2008 04:44 PM
Here are my concerns about "Kawasaki making things right."
First off how are they verifying the correct torque? Any mechanic knows that a tightened bolt takes far more torque to loosen than to tighten.
Second. The financial incentive to the dealers is not to be taken lightly. They get PAID by Kawi to do the work. Period. It's easy for them to say "yup, over torqued. And then bill for a frame swap.
Third. Who wants a dealer to fully assemble your bike from scratch?? Most can't do an oil change without leaving off 4 or 5 fairing bolts. (like my first service.)
This is a bad situation for all concerned. If I take my bike in and it fails, I am looking at 6 months to get a frame swap. In the mean time I am paying for a bike I can't ride. Do you really think Kawi is going to fix my bike if I take it in and fail the test and then ride it until winter? Keep dreaming buddy.
____________
Speed has never killed anyone,
suddenly becoming stationary...
That's what gets you.
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ekz
Novice Class
ed
Posts: 38
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posted June 09, 2008 04:50 PM
I am scheduled to bring mine in Saturday. Dealer said I will have back same day if it checks out ok. Otherwise it is a new frame. I also have many concerns if it does not get thumbs up, we will see. Will post results and any dealer info/perspective I get.
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smokinzx14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted June 09, 2008 05:06 PM
Edited By: smokinzx14 on 9 Jun 2008 18:12
I was at my Dealer today and he got his first zx14 in to do the recall ...My friend Dave was doing the work and asked me to have a look ........With a Mirror and a flash light Dave pointed out to me a hair line crack in the weld on the left side frame .. I asked him if the bolt and collar torq numbers were in Spec and he said it was well below the 37 pounds listed in the recall ...Dave was getting the bike ready to pull the motor to get a better look at the weld ( crack ) This crack was right where the recall shows in the paper work ..The crack is in a very hard place to see clearly , it's between the frame and engine....This bike will be getting a new frame....
It just happens i know the owner of the zx14 , he is 71 years olds and the bike is stone stock blue 06 with about 10000 miles on the clock ....The owner of the bike came in while i was getting ready to leave and was not even upset about the frame replacement ...
So there you have it , even if the collar is in spec it could have a crack ...Get your bike in and get it checked ...
Just a side note ... The dealer gets 4 hours labor to R&R the motor to check the frame .... They get 9 hours total to replace the frame if needed....
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted June 09, 2008 05:37 PM
i need to give the dealer a call, i'll be paying attention how they respond, this is a test, if they fail, i buy my next bike elsewhere next time
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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87gtNOS
Zone Head
Posts: 620
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posted June 09, 2008 06:08 PM
hmmm..not sure if it was mentioned, but I just gotmy CANADIAN KAWI recall notice in the mail today.
I think I will crawl under my bike and inspect it real carefully tomorrow night....
One thing of interest and concern, was the wording of the recall notice...
"....the engine mount collars may be over tightened.....creating EXCESSIVE stress on the WELDS.....this crossmember can crack...."
Ok, so is it the welds or the crossmember??? To my understanding, it's the crossmember cracking, not the WELDS??
____________
01 ZX12R
07 ZX14 - YEAH BABY!
03 ZX9R-traded in for the 14!!! June 07!
05 636-traded in for the 9 Sept 05
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shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted June 09, 2008 06:21 PM
quote:
So there you have it , even if the collar is in spec it could have a crack ...Get your bike in and get it checked ...
Perhaps you can answer this question that I posed earlier:
Is the service manual spec of 18 ft. lbs. on the collars and 44 ft lbs. on the nuts still valid?
Thanks.
Shane
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ZREXER
Expert Class
Posts: 492
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posted June 09, 2008 07:16 PM
quote:
I was at my Dealer today and he got his first zx14 in to do the recall ...My friend Dave was doing the work and asked me to have a look ........With a Mirror and a flash light Dave pointed out to me a hair line crack in the weld on the left side frame .. I asked him if the bolt and collar torq numbers were in Spec and he said it was well below the 37 pounds listed in the recall ...Dave was getting the bike ready to pull the motor to get a better look at the weld ( crack ) This crack was right where the recall shows in the paper work ..The crack is in a very hard place to see clearly , it's between the frame and engine....This bike will be getting a new frame....
It just happens i know the owner of the zx14 , he is 71 years olds and the bike is stone stock blue 06 with about 10000 miles on the clock ....The owner of the bike came in while i was getting ready to leave and was not even upset about the frame replacement ...
So there you have it , even if the collar is in spec it could have a crack ...Get your bike in and get it checked ...
Just a side note ... The dealer gets 4 hours labor to R&R the motor to check the frame .... They get 9 hours total to replace the frame if needed....
I was expecting to see this happen that a bike with correct torque cracked anyway. For those of you have had your bikes checked and passed, it probably is a good idea to take a look in the critical areas from time to time.
If I was 71 and was still able to ride a ZX-14, I would probably take it all in stride as well if my bike needed a major tear down and frame replacement!
It scares me that they only get nine hours to completely strip and rebuild your bike, seems like an incredibly short amount of time for a job like this. How good is the build quality going to be from the average shop attempting this?
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MJ
Zone Head
Posts: 560
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posted June 10, 2008 03:16 AM
quote:
quote:
I was at my Dealer today and he got his first zx14 in to do the recall ...My friend Dave was doing the work and asked me to have a look ........With a Mirror and a flash light Dave pointed out to me a hair line crack in the weld on the left side frame .. I asked him if the bolt and collar torq numbers were in Spec and he said it was well below the 37 pounds listed in the recall ...Dave was getting the bike ready to pull the motor to get a better look at the weld ( crack ) This crack was right where the recall shows in the paper work ..The crack is in a very hard place to see clearly , it's between the frame and engine....This bike will be getting a new frame....
It just happens i know the owner of the zx14 , he is 71 years olds and the bike is stone stock blue 06 with about 10000 miles on the clock ....The owner of the bike came in while i was getting ready to leave and was not even upset about the frame replacement ...
So there you have it , even if the collar is in spec it could have a crack ...Get your bike in and get it checked ...
Just a side note ... The dealer gets 4 hours labor to R&R the motor to check the frame .... They get 9 hours total to replace the frame if needed....
I was expecting to see this happen that a bike with correct torque cracked anyway. For those of you have had your bikes checked and passed, it probably is a good idea to take a look in the critical areas from time to time.
If I was 71 and was still able to ride a ZX-14, I would probably take it all in stride as well if my bike needed a major tear down and frame replacement!
It scares me that they only get nine hours to completely strip and rebuild your bike, seems like an incredibly short amount of time for a job like this. How good is the build quality going to be from the average shop attempting this?
sh*it
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slates
Expert Class
Posts: 377
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posted June 10, 2008 03:59 AM
quote:
I was at my Dealer today and he got his first zx14 in to do the recall ...My friend Dave was doing the work and asked me to have a look ........With a Mirror and a flash light Dave pointed out to me a hair line crack in the weld on the left side frame .. I asked him if the bolt and collar torq numbers were in Spec and he said it was well below the 37 pounds listed in the recall ...Dave was getting the bike ready to pull the motor to get a better look at the weld ( crack ) This crack was right where the recall shows in the paper work ..The crack is in a very hard place to see clearly , it's between the frame and engine....This bike will be getting a new frame....
It just happens i know the owner of the zx14 , he is 71 years olds and the bike is stone stock blue 06 with about 10000 miles on the clock ....The owner of the bike came in while i was getting ready to leave and was not even upset about the frame replacement ...
So there you have it , even if the collar is in spec it could have a crack ...Get your bike in and get it checked ...
Just a side note ... The dealer gets 4 hours labor to R&R the motor to check the frame .... They get 9 hours total to replace the frame if needed....
Wow...that's scary...
I'm dropping my bike off tomorrow night for the inspection. I should know something by Thursday. I've got half a mind to trade it in on an 08. I could put all the stock components back on and trade it in. It's not ideal for me, but I'm not sure it's worth the risk after hearing Smokin's story above.
____________
black zx14 - Brock's Gen3 Carbon, PCIII, no secondaries, Carrozzeria wheels, Sato rearsets, Pazzo levers, GPR V4 steering damper, Puig windscreen, Tiger Racing chain guard
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shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted June 10, 2008 04:25 AM
Edited By: shane661 on 10 Jun 2008 05:27
quote:
I asked him if the bolt and collar torq numbers were in Spec and he said it was well below the 37 pounds listed in the recall
While the collar may have backed off easily, it seems to me that the preload on the collar would drop once the frame cracks. So, I see the potential scenario as an overtightening, and then a crack, which then reduces the preload on the collar.
Obviously I'm not a structural engineer. I'm just trying to figure out a logical scenario that would crack the frame and then have it not seem to be overtightened upon inspection.
Shane
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted June 10, 2008 06:08 AM
Shane your scenario is spot on and I was wondering the same exact thing myself. My job is quite literally to find inherent and induced defects in stressed components in the R & D side of Boeing. It's what I do all day long, inspect parts that are brought to failure. So this is right up my alley, and I can tell you that in every instance where you have a expansion pressure applied like this case and it fails, it relieves the stress.
In other words, if the mechanic tells you that the torques are easily "within specification" or some such statement about the torque being below the threshold, be very aware that the reason for that artificially low number could be caused by a crack that relieved the pressure. And a hairline crack is enough to drop that ft. lbs. number into the good range.
So make sure that the mechanics look VERY carefully visually at the area!
I personally would recommend a Dye Penetrant inspection myself. A quick way to do one if you dont have the proper chemicals: Get a spray solvent (brake or carb cleaner works well), light oil (the darker the color the better, used 0 weight oil works best, WD40 works in a pinch), and talcum powder (baby powder, etc.. the finer the powder the better).
Preclean area very well, solvent based cleaners recommended. Then take the oil and wet the area, letting soak for at least 10 minutes (reapplying if it appears to be drying).
Then wipe area with a clean cloth, followed by spraying the solvent lightly onto a rag and wiping part. DO NOT spray directly onto part!
After the surface looks clean, apply the talcum powder liberally to the area.
Any crack or weld porosity with bleed through from the "cavity" where it was hiding, pulled out by the capillary action of the powder, forming a very visible black spot or line in the powder. This capillary action could take a minute or two to work, so keep an eye on it and be patient. The area can usually be wiped and re-powdered a time or two if needed, results will vary... This inspection should find any crack on aluminum that is visible with a 10x magnifying glass on aluminum. Steel or titanium you will most likely need a Fluerescent Dye Penetrant Kit from Magnaflux or equivelant.
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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drewzx-14
Zone Head
Andrew
Posts: 553
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posted June 10, 2008 07:53 AM
Edited By: drewzx-14 on 10 Jun 2008 08:55
Just came back from my inspection. I was allowed to wait with the motorcycle as they inspected. They informed me that they were going to check 4 bolts underneath the motorcycle and look for any visible cracks. It took them about an hour and half to complete the inspection. I am glad to hear that my bike was not affected. I get to now enjoy the rest of my summer with my machine in my hands. Beautiful weather calls for a nice ride. Plus I have all of these goodies that I ordered coming in. Including the New Muzzy M14 stainless system. I cant wait to get that and pull my secondaries. Im going to have a blast. I cant wait to experience the awakening of a dragon..... to be continued on that one. I will most definitely write something up about the exhaust and post pics. Once again I am happy to have my bike back....
____________
2009 Yamaha R1-SOLD!
2013 Zx-14R Green ABS
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07zx14blk
Expert Class
ZX6R, ZX9R,ZX12R,ZX14
Posts: 252
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posted June 10, 2008 07:56 AM
Thanks a ton to all of you that have posted so much good info on this subject, as it stands I called my dealership yesterday and I have an appointment to bring my bike in on the Jun 25th. . The one area that I am still a little unclear on is what tests are they supposed to perform at the dealership… Like so many others I am a little concerned that my “back woods” dealership while great guy’s may not have the expertise to pull the inspection off let alone a frame replacement if one is deemed required.
At this point in time I am reasonably certain that my bike is A-OK, and am continuing to drive it.. (The shop manager had a good laugh when I told them the recall said I should hold off riding it until I received the inspection).
So my question is does anyone know what exactly the mechanic is to do when performing the various inspections?
Cheers,
____________
ZX14 - Flies out,Full Yosh CF,PCIII,Dark Smoke, Thottlemister, Fender Eliminator, CF Hugger, BMC Race Fillter
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted June 10, 2008 09:51 AM
Exactly? No besides the torque check. I would assume it entails a thorough inspection of the weld areas that are cracking, though. And I would make it CRYSTAL CLEAR that they WILL look that area over like there lives depended on it!!! I personally will be standing there with them, and will want to get a good look at the area in question (just to make double sure I was looking at the correct area myself). Then I'm going to Eddy Current inspect that area later.
Anybody in the Seattle area want theres Eddy Current inspected (used in aviation mainly to find surface and subsurface cracks invisible to the naked eye. Very quick inspection, only take a minute or two- painted or not).
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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87gtNOS
Zone Head
Posts: 620
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posted June 10, 2008 10:13 AM
ummm...I thought it was NOT the welds that cracked??
____________
01 ZX12R
07 ZX14 - YEAH BABY!
03 ZX9R-traded in for the 14!!! June 07!
05 636-traded in for the 9 Sept 05
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blackbullet76
Pro
Posts: 1134
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posted June 10, 2008 10:14 AM
My friend that works at a dealership said they will check the torque on the bolts. If they're too tight, they will remove the engine and inspect the frame for cracks. If any are found, they will replace the frame. I'm dropping mine off tomorrow to get this taken care of.
____________
2007 ZX-14 black
Brocks s-meg exhaust
PCIII w/track map
BMC race filter
Flies removed
16 tooth front sprocket
Speedohealer
APE cam chain tensioner
Vortex rearsets
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slates
Expert Class
Posts: 377
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posted June 10, 2008 10:23 AM
quote:
My friend that works at a dealership said they will check the torque on the bolts. If they're too tight, they will remove the engine and inspect the frame for cracks. If any are found, they will replace the frame. I'm dropping mine off tomorrow to get this taken care of.
...this is what has me confused. It seems that some dealers are re-torquing the bolts to the correct level and looking at the frame. If the frame looks good they are sending people on their merry way. What your dealer is doing is what I thought the recall recommended; if the bolts are over torqued they have to pull the motor to inspect further.
If my motor needs to be pulled, I'm going to trade it in for an 08.
Will someone who knows what the correct steps are for the dealer please clarify before I drop my bike off tomorrow evening?
Thank you.
____________
black zx14 - Brock's Gen3 Carbon, PCIII, no secondaries, Carrozzeria wheels, Sato rearsets, Pazzo levers, GPR V4 steering damper, Puig windscreen, Tiger Racing chain guard
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87gtNOS
Zone Head
Posts: 620
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posted June 10, 2008 10:45 AM
Again....and for slates...how do they tell if a bolt is overtightened? loosen it with a torque wrench? That's not gonna tell them squat.
____________
01 ZX12R
07 ZX14 - YEAH BABY!
03 ZX9R-traded in for the 14!!! June 07!
05 636-traded in for the 9 Sept 05
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drewzx-14
Zone Head
Andrew
Posts: 553
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posted June 10, 2008 11:07 AM
I believe the inspection entails checking the 4 bolts for too much torque. Otherwise if the bolts are not torqued properly and can see visible cracks in the welds or frame, then they go ahead and do a thorough inspection by removing the engine. Im not too sure but that is how I was told by the mechanic. Not sure if he is bs'n me
____________
2009 Yamaha R1-SOLD!
2013 Zx-14R Green ABS
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87gtNOS
Zone Head
Posts: 620
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posted June 10, 2008 11:12 AM
So Drew...(I am not trying to be difficult) but it's already been argued on here as to the method of checking a 'too tight bolt'!!!!!
Imagine there is some corrosion on the bolt and nut...it'll take more torque to loosen it!! etc!
____________
01 ZX12R
07 ZX14 - YEAH BABY!
03 ZX9R-traded in for the 14!!! June 07!
05 636-traded in for the 9 Sept 05
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ccrider43
Parking Attendant
Posts: 1
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posted June 10, 2008 11:17 AM
My Dealer is 80 miles away I called the dealer and Kawski - No one wants to pay for the tow to the dealer, the letter states not to ride the bike. I should not have to pay to get my bike shiped 80 miles - Time for a lawyer.
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drewzx-14
Zone Head
Andrew
Posts: 553
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posted June 10, 2008 11:23 AM
Most definitely, I agree with you about the methods of fixing the problem. I am just taking there word for it because there is not much more us owners can do. I am a hard working man and I cant afford to trade the bike because it is just now finally been paid off. Worst of all is that even if I sold the thing I would probably be offered pennies for it. So I am trying to be as positive as I can be about the situation. This actually does have me worried but I am not the type to be in and out of bikes every two or three years. Unfortunately I am going to have to deal with kawasakis bullshit for now. I am sure word has gotten around to everyone about it and I wont receive much of anything for it. But hey look at the bright side we still have motorcycles i guess.
____________
2009 Yamaha R1-SOLD!
2013 Zx-14R Green ABS
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87gtNOS
Zone Head
Posts: 620
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posted June 10, 2008 11:27 AM
Yes, Drew, I am too in a similar situation....paying for bike monthly. If I try to trade it in, I am out $5000 I bet (CDN!!).
I will inspect my own bike carefully, talk with my shops mechanic, and then ride it till October and have them look at it then maybe!
I still need some convincing about the checking procedures!!!
I may even be at my dealer tonight...I will ask my salesman if he would buy it!!
____________
01 ZX12R
07 ZX14 - YEAH BABY!
03 ZX9R-traded in for the 14!!! June 07!
05 636-traded in for the 9 Sept 05
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