Kawabonzai
Zone Head
Leader of the Back.
Posts: 537
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posted June 19, 2008 08:31 AM
Does this effect 08's at all?
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PC-III w/USB, Muzzys M14 + Carbon Oval + M10, BMC Race Filter, Flies Out, Buell Pegs, Heli Risers
www.TucsonSportRiders.com - Tucson's Premier SportRider Community
   
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slates
Expert Class
Posts: 377
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posted June 19, 2008 08:42 AM
Sticks,
The weld quality was one of the things I'd questioned in the recall thread because one "dealer" members had reported the bolts were at spec torque numbers, but there was a crack in the weld. I haven't seen any long standing members report this type of issue. It also doesn't seem like the torque numbers are high enough to cause a failure unless the weld was weak.
Thanks, keep us posted.
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black zx14 - Brock's Gen3 Carbon, PCIII, no secondaries, Carrozzeria wheels, Sato rearsets, Pazzo levers, GPR V4 steering damper, Puig windscreen, Tiger Racing chain guard
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shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted June 19, 2008 08:44 AM
I have seen, at my local shop, one 2006 that was cracked on the right side. The crack extended up the side of the lower casting about 2 inches. It was visible from 3 feet away. The owner had been riding the bike and did not know it was cracked. The bike was stock with 800 miles on it.
If there is any bright side, it seems that even with a crack running up the frame or the full circumference of the weld, the crossmembers are not collapsing immediately.
Shane
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted June 19, 2008 09:06 AM
Only if they fired there crappy assed welders, or "retrained" them.
For future reference, can you guys only post pictures and direct info related to cracks on here? And keep the banter in general to the "Recall" thread.
I meant for this thread to be a reference for all to use to see for themselves where the frames are cracking so they know where to look themselves.
Here is a few other photos already posted on Bikeland:
 
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted June 19, 2008 09:25 AM
 Edited By: fish_antlers on 19 Jun 2008 10:31
STICKS... Your post and topic have been removed.
ALL FRAME ISSUES STAY IN THIS TOPIC
REMOVING OTHER THREADS AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO.
AGAIN - ALL FRAME ISSUES STAY IN THIS TOPIC
For those wanting to post pictures and do not know how, please READ the sticky post at the top of the forum entitled "How to post pictures for dummies"
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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slates
Expert Class
Posts: 377
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posted June 19, 2008 09:49 AM
fish,
Can you move the posts from Sticks thread into this one since it had good information?
Thank you.
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black zx14 - Brock's Gen3 Carbon, PCIII, no secondaries, Carrozzeria wheels, Sato rearsets, Pazzo levers, GPR V4 steering damper, Puig windscreen, Tiger Racing chain guard
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted June 19, 2008 09:54 AM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 19 Jun 2008 11:13
quote:
fish,
Can you move the posts from Sticks thread into this one since it had good information?
Thank you.
done.
need to keep all frame discussion in one topic. Do not want dozens of frame topics.
Thanks
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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Boss69
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted June 19, 2008 10:45 AM
Edited By: Boss69 on 19 Jun 2008 12:00
I had gotten myself pretty cranked up about this recall, seriousness, time of the year (ridin time!). I have a nice bike jack and had my bike up and checked as thorough as I could with good light and mirror. I couldn't see any cracks.
I called a Dealer @ 10 miles from me (not where I bought my bike, but they didn't know that) and asked about getting in to get my bike inspected. They immediately informed me that the bike would have to be left and "the engine would have to be removed for inspection". I have seen the mechanics Tech on inspection. I said I would get back to them NOT!!!
I figured I would use Murphy's Law to my advantage and trailered my bike to the dealership. ( If I ride it there they will need to keep and I will be stuck) Dealership is in CT, CHAPLIN Kawasaki!, about 70 miles, 1.5 Hrs w/traffic each way and IS where I bought my bike. They had told me to just drop in and they would take care of the inspection ASAP.
They took the bike right in and I wasn't there an hour. Mechanic brought the bike out and explained how and what was checked. All set! A-OK!!!!!. Whew...........
He told me that they had checked 6 or 7 bikes and had found no problems yet.
I will likely just make it a practice to check these areas as a routine, just to be safe.
PS. Service Manager: "What's the tether kill switch for?" ;>)
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'07 Blue ZX-14 Turbo (FOR SALE)
'07 Victory Jackpot Ness Edition (FOR SALE)
'04 EX500, for son and wife to learn on.(sold)
'78 Z1-R (sold)
'75 Z1 900 (sold)
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted June 19, 2008 11:11 AM
alright Fish, why did you delete my post? Had to be you or Freak, right?
Why would you take down a post that could help ALOT of people keep an eye on the critical area.
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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RACNRAY
Expert Class
FAST OLD GUY
Posts: 178
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posted June 19, 2008 11:27 AM
Funny but terrible story...a customer of mine brought his 14 in 1 hour ago after picking it up from the dealer for the bolt/frame inspect. Anyhow, he wanted me to recheck things as we have servuced his skoots for years.
So, i get down there to check it out, low and behold there is an official looking red mark on the right side lower bolt head,prolly to make it look like it was checked...maybe,maybe not.
Anyhow, i take my flashlight and look at the frame and low and behold it's CRACKED!! Even with my poor eyesight the crack was so apparent it's just unbelievable!!
I got out of dealerships in 1982 cuz of the sh#t that was goin on back then and it has done nothing bot gotten worse!!
As a favor to him i called Kawasaki cunsumer dept., introduced myself and explained what i just found and then handed the phone over to the owner. What followed was an intense interogation by the rep as to how many wheelies/stoppies/heffer passengers he had!! This on a skoot with 1306 miles driven by a 63 yo guy!
Just pisses me off that in the biz i have earned my living in for 32 years come September of this year there is so much incompetency and arrogance!!
Sad
RACNRAY
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no chicken strips on this south florida boy's skoots!!
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted June 19, 2008 11:34 AM
quote:
alright Fish, why did you delete my post? Had to be you or Freak, right?
Why would you take down a post that could help ALOT of people keep an eye on the critical area.
you need to READ. I've already stated why.
Your posts have been merged into this topic.
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted June 19, 2008 11:44 AM
Oh, didnt catch that. Figured for future reference it would be better to have a single site for just the actual frame break photos. Instead of some poor SOB 6 months from now having to dig through 32 pages of posts trying to find the photos he's looking for.
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted June 19, 2008 11:47 AM
RACNRAY: photos? was it the right side at the welds again or???
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted June 19, 2008 11:52 AM
I would not be surprised it a lot of cracks are missed (or created, for that matter). The kawasaki procedure skips to the tightening process if the collars were not beyond 36.9 ft. lbs. to break loose.
I would recommend that everyone request a visual inspection, regardless of what torque is required to back the collars off. In my opinion it's better to be on the safe side.
Shane
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted June 19, 2008 12:00 PM
As mentioned earlier, and repeatedly, ALL FRAME ISSUES STAY IN THIS TOPIC
Thanks!
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted June 19, 2008 12:02 PM
You do realize that you are a pain in the a$$, right Fish?
Just wanted to make sure.
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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RACNRAY
Expert Class
FAST OLD GUY
Posts: 178
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posted June 19, 2008 12:22 PM
The frame was not cracked so much "at" the weld, the crack ran in both the weld AND the frame spar on the right side.
My thoughts...In the olden days the motor mount systems used were a combination of steel plates and loose fitting bolts. An easy way to compensate for manufacturing tolerances in motor mount dimensions on both frames and engines.
With aluminum frames came "adjustable" motor mounts...that is threaded collars in either the frame or engine that were adjusted to allow the engine to fit into the frame regardless of dimensional differences in the motor mount areas.
Over-torquing or under-torquing of these collars can put stresses into these areas that can cause metal fatigue and subsequent failure.
Case in point...the Busa's adjustable collars are torqued to 7.3 pnd/ft torque while Kawi's specs are 18 pnd/ft. Since Kawi's recall bulletin says there is the possibility of "overtightened engine mount adjusting collars", what i suspect is either a factory torque figure too high which would have a tendancy to try and "spread" the frame in that area causing more stress than necessary, OR they in fact were assembled at the factory with that "excessive" torque (higher than the specified 18 pnds/ft.) which of course would do the same thing.
I don't believe this is necessarily a "weld" failure. Someone would have to have the welds x-rayed for proper penetration, the material used in the frame iself analyzed for proper
properties, etc.etc.
I'm sure..more will be revealed.
RACNRAY
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no chicken strips on this south florida boy's skoots!!
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted June 19, 2008 01:17 PM
Edited By: Sticks_n_Stones on 19 Jun 2008 14:18
I'm going to ID the frame material tomorrow, but I cant ID the welding rod material. I also will be checking for lack of penetration of the weld.
Do any of you, or any of your friends with 14's, live in the Seattle area? For a proper identification of the problem I will need multiple 14's inspected to be sure about the weld quality. Any takers? It's the only sure way to know if your bike has any cracks, because these buggers apparently start on the hollow inside of the frame and work there way out (engineer friend of mine verified that).
Looks like the ultrasonic inspection of the R/H mount lug is a no-go, I cant inspect enough of it while its still together to be sure if its cracked or not in the bore. But apparently its not the lug so much as the area on the frame where it's attached that failing.
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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butta4hc
Expert Class
Posts: 313
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posted June 19, 2008 06:29 PM
Just reposting my pics of my cracked frame in this thread.
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Butta
Hot Commodities MC
Paterson, NJ
2006 Black ZX-14 - Recall Frame Swap, Full Muzzy GP Exhaust, PCIII, BMC Race Filter, Flies Out, Braided Front Brake & Cutch Lines, Muzzy's Radiator Fan, Engine Ice Coolant, Frame Sliders, SubFrame Sliders, Puig Dark Smoke Windscreen, Powerbronze Hugger, Cox Radiator Guard, Unswitched Powerlet Outlet under seat, Switched Powerlet Outlet On Right Duct Panel, Intergrated Tail Light, HID lights high and low beam, Blue corner marker lights, Eclipse License Plate Blackout Kit, Black Pazzo Levers, Scorpio Alarm, Lojack Theft Recovery System, Rapid Transit Triple Tree Bag, Cortech Tank, Tail & Saddle Bags and the bragging rights for being "The Fastest 14 In The Country" for a few weeks when the 14 made it's debut here in the states.
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted June 19, 2008 07:27 PM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 19 Jun 2008 20:29
Stopped by local dealer today ... in the service area they had a row of 14's waiting to be worked on... told me that the turn around was only 2 days to get the replacement bolts and that kawi was being really fast getting parts to them.
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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northmedic
Expert Class
Posts: 384
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posted June 19, 2008 08:17 PM
Edited By: northmedic on 19 Jun 2008 21:28
looking at the above pic i count 6 threads on the collar visible i went and looked at mine and there are only 4 showing just possible a pointless finding but that would mean on mine its threaded in more and would allow for the bolt to suck the frame tighter ? or in the above pic is it forcing the the frame apart , you can look at my pic on page 7 of this topic
just to add my friend just showed up on his 08 zx14 and the collar only has 3.5 almost 4 threads showing. i Guess what i am getting at on the other cracked frames is the collar screwed out further like what i see in the above pics . is the fact the collar is further out a contributing factor ??
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I,ll be right back
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MJ
Zone Head
Posts: 560
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posted June 20, 2008 02:05 AM
quote:
looking at the above pic i count 6 threads on the collar visible i went and looked at mine and there are only 4 showing just possible a pointless finding but that would mean on mine its threaded in more and would allow for the bolt to suck the frame tighter ? or in the above pic is it forcing the the frame apart , you can look at my pic on page 7 of this topic
just to add my friend just showed up on his 08 zx14 and the collar only has 3.5 almost 4 threads showing. i Guess what i am getting at on the other cracked frames is the collar screwed out further like what i see in the above pics . is the fact the collar is further out a contributing factor ??
Nice observation  Thats pretty much showing that at least with the frame above, there was some serious overtorquing going on. With the low torque numbers required for that area, 2 complete turns of the collar (2 threads difference) would make a HUGE difference in torque values. I think your on to something. I've already checked/re-torqued mine, but I'm gonna check the threads showing on my lower collar just to compare. I'll post back my results 
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slates
Expert Class
Posts: 377
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posted June 20, 2008 01:23 PM
quote:
quote:
looking at the above pic i count 6 threads on the collar visible i went and looked at mine and there are only 4 showing just possible a pointless finding but that would mean on mine its threaded in more and would allow for the bolt to suck the frame tighter ? or in the above pic is it forcing the the frame apart , you can look at my pic on page 7 of this topic
just to add my friend just showed up on his 08 zx14 and the collar only has 3.5 almost 4 threads showing. i Guess what i am getting at on the other cracked frames is the collar screwed out further like what i see in the above pics . is the fact the collar is further out a contributing factor ??
Nice observation Thats pretty much showing that at least with the frame above, there was some serious overtorquing going on. With the low torque numbers required for that area, 2 complete turns of the collar (2 threads difference) would make a HUGE difference in torque values. I think your on to something. I've already checked/re-torqued mine, but I'm gonna check the threads showing on my lower collar just to compare. I'll post back my results
My torque specs checked out and i just looked at the threads on my lower "collar' and I count between 3 & 4.
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black zx14 - Brock's Gen3 Carbon, PCIII, no secondaries, Carrozzeria wheels, Sato rearsets, Pazzo levers, GPR V4 steering damper, Puig windscreen, Tiger Racing chain guard
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BlueLightning
Expert Class
Posts: 227
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posted June 20, 2008 04:34 PM
UPDATE: Finally the shop received the bolt kit from Kawasuki Canada, engine removed and the frame was okay no cracks. They sent picks to kawasaki with engine out etc and waiting for word to put bike back together. The shop manager told me, they should have the bike ready for pickup tuesday. Lets hope for the best!!
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jeff martin
Pro (closed)
jamming
Posts: 1168
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posted June 20, 2008 07:31 PM
Sweating bullets today. But my bike checked out with no problems as far as torque specs and cracking. The dealer has had 9 bikes and no cracks from all. Mine is a 07 with 1355miles no mods. But pipes Etc.
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i play with boats my wife plays with my dingy.
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