Smooth_G
Expert Class
Posts: 228
|
posted April 20, 2008 09:37 PM
i think most people think dichotomously ,,the problem is all this or all that,,,i think there is more then one problem,,,u might be right about the sensor,,but i also think there is not enough airflow going through the radiator,,,period. thats why u hear comments about how the zx10r fender helps alot,,,,this bike needs 2 fans period,,,the zx12r,,the hayabusa, the zx14 concours,,,all have to fans,,,this was pure negligence, adding a fan is a small problem,,,,compared to some of the shit i dealt with on ducatis,,,and triumphs,,,CHECK THIS OUT,, i have a fjr 1300 also,, at a dead stop,,in 103 degree weather,,,the 2 fans will kick on,,,then it will cool enough for the fans to turn off, it continue till it runs out of gas,,,but my zx14 wont do that,,,at a stop the fan goes on at 3 bars , but never turns off while stopped or going slow,,,it will get up to the last bar and continue to get hotter,,this tells me the fan doesnt draw enough air though the radiator,,so my solution is 2 fans,,,brocks ceramic street meg,,,engine ice,,,and water wetter,,if i still have problems,,,a zx10r fender and remove parts of the lower fairing,,,the RC51 is another overheater,,i have a friend who has one,,,
  
|
kaw now
Expert Class
Posts: 446
|
posted April 21, 2008 09:56 AM
I've given it some more thought the problem is this. The bike was made for hauling ass going fast, quit posing at stop lights and get out of town and put the hammer down problem solved. If you want to go up and down the boulevards then buy another fan and wire it in.
|
zx14_busakilla
Expert Class
Posts: 165
|
posted April 21, 2008 10:05 AM
Mr.New guy it's an 06 with 18,126 miles on . thats alot of posing at stop lights.and please read all of the threads im rideing it to Deals Gap 23-25 this will be my scond trip made one in 06
|
Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
|
posted April 21, 2008 10:32 AM
Go figure the guy with "kaw" in his name would try to bail out of the conversation where a legitimate concern was found with his favorite bike.
Though you better be forewarned, calling guys "posers" so flagrantly could leave you with major egg on your face when one of the said "posers" rides circles around you at a later date.
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
|
kaw now
Expert Class
Posts: 446
|
posted April 21, 2008 10:32 AM
Okay Busakilla I will say this I may be new guy here but I wasn't born yesterday if you are looking for answers on this forum some of the suggestions are good. Flush the system with radiator flush and replace the coolant make sure to bleed according the manual. If that doesn't fix it remove the thermostat and put in water with a thermometer and see if it is opening all the way and at the proper temp. Its a cooling system like any vehicle so check all the likely suspects. Run the bike without a thermometer and see if there is enough flow through the system and it still runs hot. inspect the radiator for clogging externally like debris. Remove the radiator and take it a radiator shop for testing. Make sure none of the hoses have deteriorated internally. There are many steps to take with that many miles a flush couldn't hurt.
|
zx14_busakilla
Expert Class
Posts: 165
|
posted April 21, 2008 10:43 AM
Thanks for the info Kaw now. Good lookin out Sticks
|
kaw now
Expert Class
Posts: 446
|
posted April 21, 2008 10:52 AM
No problem Busakilla let us know what you find.
|
macattack
Parking Attendant
Posts: 11
|
posted April 21, 2008 10:54 AM
I don't know guys, I have an 08' just turned 600 miles and although I have not got the falshing LCD the temp gauge is just below the "H" while in traffic and it was only 72 degress outside when I was riding. I would not think that a sensor or thermostat is malfunctioning since it's brand new. I realize it should get better after the break in but it does run hot...i don't care what the gauges are showing my "ass-o-meter" is telling me it's running frickin hot.
I changed out my stock thermostat on my car to a 180 and that seemed to help it run cooler in the summer, i am curious to see if a similar themostat exists for the 14. Just ordered the water wetter and hopefully losing the stock cans will help with the above "heat" issue.
|
FIFTH
Expert Class
The Magnificent Bastard
Posts: 303
|
posted April 21, 2008 11:05 AM
Maybe I am ignorant of the whole layout of the bike, but aren't we all looking at the wrong fix for the bike?? Isn't their a way we could put an oil cooler on the bike??? I am waiting until 5k miles to put synthetic oil in my bike, and was going to look at adding an oil cooler to the bike.
It might not be possible without major mods, but just thought I would throw it out there..... you guys tell me.......
|
LeoVinceZX14
Expert Class
Thankfully...its paid for...
Posts: 386
|
posted April 21, 2008 11:17 AM
Late to the party but a question..
ZX14_Busakiller:
Are you running synthetic oil, aftermarket exhaust, engine ice, etc? While I have never had a problem, I have read about so many of you guys experiencing heat issues so its a major problem with at least some of the bikes so just throwing out a few thoughts. I wish we all had a accurate digital readout versus the LCD B.S. to help with this issue. Good luck getting it handled.
Ride safe....
____________
'12 14R SE
PC V
Custom map
BMC filter
Leo Vince 4-2-1 w/ carbon can
Sato frame sliders
Supersprox 42T
Cox radiator guard
DID 530 X-ring chain.
|
Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
|
posted April 21, 2008 11:28 AM
As Bill Eason wrote, it's a bad sensor that is causing it. The fan sensor, and/or the gauge sensor. He changed sensors with a bad bike and its gauge worked correctly. The fan sensors seem to also have issues, in the other direction, by not registering high enough readings to turn the fan on appropriately.
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
|
kaw now
Expert Class
Posts: 446
|
posted April 21, 2008 11:42 AM
FIFTH the bike already has an oil cooler its that coffee can on the lower front of the engine its a water to oil cooler.
|
Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
|
posted April 21, 2008 11:44 AM
damn kaw now, I didnt know that either. Thanks for the info
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
|
FIFTH
Expert Class
The Magnificent Bastard
Posts: 303
|
posted April 21, 2008 12:48 PM
quote:
FIFTH the bike already has an oil cooler its that coffee can on the lower front of the engine its a water to oil cooler.
cool. so can an air oil cooler be mounted??? kind of like an external transmission cooler on my truck???
I was just looking at that canister yesterday while I had the fairings off...didn't know what it was.
|
fury
Expert Class
Posts: 427
|
posted April 21, 2008 01:52 PM
quote:
quote:
FIFTH the bike already has an oil cooler its that coffee can on the lower front of the engine its a water to oil cooler.
cool. so can an air oil cooler be mounted??? kind of like an external transmission cooler on my truck???
I was just looking at that canister yesterday while I had the fairings off...didn't know what it was.
Over Kill... Change your Anti-freeze
Drop your stock exhaust system.
Temps drop really nice unless you have bad a sensor...
Esbestos chaps anyone? 
|
zx14_busakilla
Expert Class
Posts: 165
|
posted April 21, 2008 03:18 PM
Brock smeg ,pc3,flies out and kaw oil. would like to run synthetic oil but have no idea which brand to use
|
FasterThanStink
Pro
Posts: 1218
|
posted April 21, 2008 04:25 PM
quote:
Brock smeg ,pc3,flies out and kaw oil. would like to run synthetic oil but have no idea which brand to use
Motul 300V. Spendy but one of the the best!
____________
Speed has never killed anyone,
suddenly becoming stationary...
That's what gets you.
|
ninja14
Pro
Posts: 1136
|
posted April 21, 2008 05:04 PM
quote:
I don't know guys, I have an 08' just turned 600 miles .....
There is some extra heat........new engine.
____________
2006 Turbo ZX-14.
2005 V-max 20th Anniv.
|
zx14_busakilla
Expert Class
Posts: 165
|
posted April 21, 2008 05:26 PM
How often do you change the oil useing full synthetic
|
man00
Novice Class
Posts: 93
|
posted April 21, 2008 10:29 PM
It just isn't the ZX14 almost all high perfomance bikes will heat up while at stop or cruising at slow speeds. IMO you can add all the fans you want and it may help a tiny bit. The Problem is at these low RPMs the coolant isn't moving fast enough to get cooled down in the radiator. Next time while at stop light twist the throttle a little see if the temp drops ..that will move some coolant around
|
Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
|
posted April 22, 2008 05:36 AM
quote:
It just isn't the ZX14 almost all high perfomance bikes will heat up while at stop or cruising at slow speeds. IMO you can add all the fans you want and it may help a tiny bit. The Problem is at these low RPMs the coolant isn't moving fast enough to get cooled down in the radiator. Next time while at stop light twist the throttle a little see if the temp drops ..that will move some coolant around
Not an issue. The reduced flow of coolant through the radiator simply means the coolant has a longer time to shed its heat, and revving the gas is simply burning more fuel, heating the engine unnecessarily.
However, if you are dealing with a sticking thermostat, revving the engine can cause pressure fluctuations that might help unstick it. Also, if you happen to have any air trapped under the thermostat (usually happens when you have drained and filled your coolant, or if you have ran low enough on coolant for air to have entered the engine coolant passageways), anyways that air pocket doesn't transfer heat very well and can allow the engine to get really hot before opening. Once it has opened, the air is flushed into the radiator and is no longer an issue. A one time deal unless your coolant level is low...
PS: Some high dollar automotive thermostats (meant for older no-overflow-tank cars and cars whose thermostats are mounted higher than there radiator) have small holes drilled into them to let the air bleed out. If you suspect an air pocket, "sloshing" the water at the bottom of that air pocket either physically or by revving the engine (causing the coolant to splash around from the pressure fluctuations) can get it to open before it gets too hot.
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
|
Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
|
posted April 22, 2008 06:25 AM
Oil: probably the most argued about issue, with the most divergent opinions, in the motorcycling and automotive world. Hell, the manufacturers cant even agree!
Here's what Wikipedia says (there description is the simplest, though the web is full of divergent views):
""The technical advantages of synthetic motor oils include:
Measurably better low and high temperature viscosity performance
Better chemical & shear stability
Decreased evaporative loss
Resistance to oxidation, thermal breakdown and oil sludge problems
Extended drain intervals with the environmental benefit of less oil waste.
Improved fuel economy in certain engine configurations.
Disadvantages
The disadvantages of synthetic motor oils include:
Initial costs are usually four times greater than petroleum-based oils, though at one time, man-made oils cost ten times more than petroleum[citation needed]. Initial costs are often mitigated by extended change intervals, which individuals may confirm through used oil analysis (UOA).
The lower friction may make them unsuitable for break-in (i.e. the initial run-in period of the vehicle) where friction is desirable to cause wear. As many vehicles now use synthetic oils as factory fill, this is less of an issue than it once was.
Potential decomposition problems in certain chemical environments (industrial use dominantly)
Potential stress cracking of plastic components like POM (polyoxymethylene) in the presence of PAOs (polyalphaolefins).
Potential on some older pushrod race engines with roller lifters for the roller itself not to spin with camshaft movement, but rather slide while the roller itself remains either stationary or at a lower circumferential speed than that of the camshaft lobe.
In July 1996, Consumer Reports published the results of a two year motor oil test involving a fleet of 75 New York taxi cabs and found no noticeable advantage of synthetic oil over regular oil. In their article, they noted that "Big-city cabs don't see many cold start-ups or long periods of high speed driving in extreme heat. But our test results relate to the most common type of severe service - stop-and-go city driving." According to their study, synthetic oil is "worth considering for extreme driving conditions: high ambient temperatures and high engine load, or very cold temperatures." This research was criticized by some because most engine damage appears to be caused by cold starts, and their research method may not have included enough cold starts to be representative of personal vehicle use.
Semi-synthetic oil
Semi-synthetic oils (also called 'synthetic blends') are blends of mineral oil with no more than 30% synthetic oil. Designed to have many of the benefits of synthetic oil without matching the cost of pure oil. MOTUL introduced the first semi-synthetic motor oil in 1966.""
_______________________________________________________________________
The benefits to you and I are: lower viscosity. Period. Unless you actually plan on changing your oil at twice the recommended miles ( I can see you all cringing now). The lower viscosity without sacrificing the superior shear strength of a higher viscosity conventional oil means you are freeing up horsepower robbed through frictional losses. It can make a very noticeable difference, on the dyno, track, and even seat of the pants.
Unlike a standard conventional low viscosity oil, synthetic oil also has the unique ability to maintain is viscosity longer. Hence the extended oil change intervals. That is due to the long strings of hydrocarbons that synthetic oil is made up of. Those 'long strings' are responcible for the superior lubricating abilities of synthetic, and as the oil degrades those strings are eventually broken up into smaller and smaller pieces, reducing viscosity and eventually increasing friction. Friction is bad.  Regular petroleum based oils have those same strings of hydrocarbons, but there lengths are not uniform in length at all. Which means an undue amount of pressure is being exerted on the limited amount of long strings causing its viscosity to break down prematurely compared to synthetics.
Synthetics also have complete control of all elements, where petroleum based lubricants, no matter how well made, still contain some contaminants such as sulfur and reactive hydrocarbons that are responsible for sludge buildup and other oxidation issues. The strides oil companies have made in the last 20 years, however, is truly amazing and that issue of contaminants is no longer a viable argument against them, however. The old timers will tell you there horror stories about sludge and varnish, but even the cheap ass oil of now is better than the best oil from the early nineties! And the highest quality oils of today are equal to or better than synthetics of the same era.
______________________________________________________________________
Here is a excerpt from NASCAR:
"Ever wonder about synthetic oil and how it compares to petroleum based oil? Well, the word "synthetic" means it's made with a combination of chemicals, so synthetic oil is "designed" while crude oil is "refined."
Synthetic oil contains a uniform molecular construction that's created to perform consistently under the harshest circumstances. It also starts out contaminant free, which is impossible for traditional petroleum based oils.
Starting the engine is tough on all of the internal parts, which is why many people appreciate synthetic oil's adhering quality. Even after the car stops, there is a film left to coat the engine parts, protecting them during the next start up.
Finally, because synthetic oil doesn't break down, it doesn't have to be changed as often. Certain manufacturers claim oil change intervals as high as 25,000 miles, justifying synthetic oil's high price for some motorists.
______________________________________________________________________
One last thought: Some oil companies consider the term "Synthetic" to apply to regular oil that has simply been through a different or more complex refining process. Since it is completely up to the oil manufacturer to decide what is "Synthetic" and what isn't, dont rely on the label. A good indication of mislabeling is when the back of the bottle of oil says to follow the manufacturers oil change interval, or simply says "3 months or 3000 miles".
Pennzoil and Castrol are the two worst offenders of misslabeling I've seen or read about on this subject. Stear clear of there synthetics IMO!
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
|
MJ
Zone Head
Posts: 560
|
posted April 22, 2008 07:23 PM
quote:
quote:
......most of the 14's heat "problem" is imagined.
If I hear one more idiot stating that it's "imagined" I'm gonna trade them bikes! Just because your own bike, or bikes sold in Florida, don't have the issue doesnt mean its not an issue with other bikes! It could be as simple as a faulty gauge or sending unit, or thermostat not opening all the way, but I'm not friggin imagining it, nor are all the others who have experienced it!
My fan comes on when the gauge hits the middle bar, which I believe is where its supposed to. What we need is to have someone on a bike that doesnt register as running hot (like you) to use a infrared heat thermometer to register the heat in the center of the radiator when the fan comes on and/or JUST when it reaches the middle bar while idling. Then we can compare it to a "hot" 14 at the same time. I bet those stats would be in the same heat range. It's only AFTER those happen that the temp just seems to keep climbing as if nothing is attempting to coolit down. If we can deduce the problem, we can fix the problem.
Hell, I'll go friggin buy a damn infrared gun if one of you guys can post up your numbers for me to compare it too! i got a sneaking suspicion that its the thermostat, had numerous issues with cars thermostats not opening all the way in the past...
Any takers? Give me your numbers!!!
Actually some guys have already checked actual temp readings on 14's with separate gauges of several kinds to compare to the 14's onboard gauge...and other bikes...and they found the 14 runs the same temps as the other bikes/brands they tested, the 14's gauge is just calibrated differently...its more sensitive and uses the full gauge range more
If you really want to test your bike let it run in the garage/yard for 45 minutes (hell idle a tank through it..it won't matter) and watch the gauge/track the fan. If it starts puking coolant its overheating...but it won't, it'll go to the 4th bar up then fan comes on and it'll drop back down to 3...then up to 4, down to 3 ect. I'v'e done it to mine, middle of summer in my garage for 45 minutes and thats what it did..same thing it does in hour long waits in summer traffic. So what if it gets near the top of the gauge...so does my wifes 3 year old 60,000 mile pontiac, and ac on in Phoenix heat its NEVER come CLOSE to overheating...gauge stops where it always does in any other temps when the fans come on, then drops back down like its supposed to...just like every bike I've ever owned. And it In every forum I've ever been to with every brand, covering all types of vehicles, atv's, street/dirt bikes ect, everybodies always freaking out because after , what?, a hundred years of motors existing folks think that these huge companies can't design a machine that won't overheat??? Manufacturers don't do any R & D? My machines running hot, its gonna cook, the gauge is too high, my legs are hot blah blah blah. Lets stick as many fans as we can find room for so the gauge never moves off the cold mark..its gotta run the best there right? These machines have to run fairly warm to meet the ever tightening emmissions...plus they need the proper heat range for best combustion with they're set-ups. They're DESIGNED to run this way. If you cool them down to much just to make you feel all warm and fuzzy when you look at the gauge, you can actually HURT performance...and fuel mileage, and possibly in extreme cases even the engine. People need to quit obsessing over they're temp guages and enjoy their bikes...if you maintain them properly you'll be fine. Riding beats chasing ghosts anyday imo
|
man00
Novice Class
Posts: 93
|
posted April 22, 2008 07:42 PM
Well one of you guys with the heat problem how about making me a deal, I may take it off your hands
|
Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
|
posted April 23, 2008 09:38 AM
 Edited By: Sticks_n_Stones on 23 Apr 2008 10:40
I let my bike sit and idle last summer MJ. It kept getting hotter and hotter, until the dash started flashing and I had to mist the radiator to cool it down.
So much for your long winded theory, huh?
edit- it only took about 10 minutes from cold, in about 90 degree heat.
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
|
|
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC