smokinzx14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted January 18, 2008 12:39 PM
Very nice Rob ....That's what we needed to see ....Looks like a well done and well thought out turbo kit ... Thanks Smokin ...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
  
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted January 21, 2008 04:24 PM
Never thought I would want one, but now I do. thanks you guys! It would have to be like Star Trek when they hit warp drive....
That kit looks very complete.
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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davej
Expert Class
Posts: 451
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posted January 21, 2008 05:36 PM
It puts 43 lbs fore of cg and takes 40 lbs from aft. (Losing the mufflers), Makes a big difference in the way it handles. I'm running a sport touring tire which breaks loose rather than going skyward. You can shift your weight to control traction. A longer swing arm, bigger tire would optimize performance but losing the short wheelbase might not be right for you......... 57" short?!
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Triumph guy
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1badvespa1400cc
Zone Head
power junkie
Posts: 691
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posted January 21, 2008 05:46 PM
Thats what I need!!!
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Just another foeteen!!!!!
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Craig Ishigo
Parking Attendant
Posts: 6
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posted January 21, 2008 08:48 PM
 Edited By: Craig Ishigo on 21 Jan 2008 21:10
Rob, If you could have a Stroked Billet Crankshaft what would it be? Stock, Decreased, or Increased for Turbo application. Also what size for All out Drag Racing.
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kspz3
Expert Class
Posts: 334
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posted January 21, 2008 08:54 PM
I have a couple questions for Rob on this kit. First - what do the turbo piston do - are they wstronger or do they decrease compression. Second - can this kit be used for land speed - i.e. sustained full throttle - Bonneville 1.5 min WOT or Maxton .5 minutes. Would it require an intercooler for such an application. I understand that the 14 has fairly weak valve springs - should they be upgraded. Also what is the risk of an oil starvation related problem - especially in a racing application - land speed or the strip - For example spinning the bearing?
Thanks,
Kevin
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted January 22, 2008 08:14 AM
every turbo piston i have ever heard of is wayy stronger (forged and thicker) and lowers the compression ratio to allow more boost/power
water/alc injection might be easier to use vs an intercooler do to limited space(put a small tank in the tail)
there was a turbo 14 at the TX Mile that ran 230ish without being maxed out. im pretty sure it didnt have either an intercooler or water/alc injection, but dont quote me on that.
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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smokinzx14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted January 22, 2008 12:15 PM
Edited By: smokinzx14 on 22 Jan 2008 12:16
quote:
I have a couple questions for Rob on this kit. First - what do the turbo piston do - are they wstronger or do they decrease compression. Second - can this kit be used for land speed - i.e. sustained full throttle - Bonneville 1.5 min WOT or Maxton .5 minutes. Would it require an intercooler for such an application. I understand that the 14 has fairly weak valve springs - should they be upgraded. Also what is the risk of an oil starvation related problem - especially in a racing application - land speed or the strip - For example spinning the bearing?
Thanks,
Kevin
Turbo pistons will have a thicker dome but the real trick is to lower upper ring land ...The factory while a very good piston it has the ring land to close to the valve pocket cut and that will cause problem with a turbo or spray .. Intercooling is great idea if you can find a place to put it ...Water alky injection would be easier ( takes less room ) to set up on our zx14 than an intercooler ... But you can do this without them , the trick is to use fuel to cool the incoming charge ....A/F ratio ramping up to 11.8 to 11.2 at full boost will cool the intake charge and in turn cool the head and pistons ....With a A/F ratio 12 and up you will boil the water in the head real fast and that's when the problems start .... With the proper fuel grade ( C16 ) and A/F ratio you could run for miles at WOT with no problems ...
OK on to the oil , Yes you need more oil .... A larger pan that would hold an extra Qt would be the place to start ...The reason for more oil is the engine will speed up ( time wise ) and so will the oil from the pump ...Here is the bad part , the oil will still drain back to the pan at the same speed it did without the turbo ..You are pumping the same amount of oil but with a turbo you are doing it in half the time but your drain back time remains the same ... Look at it this way ...You have 1 1/2 QTs in the head and cams , you have a QT caught up in the crank windage , you have a QT caught up in the Trans ....That's 3 1/2+ QTs of oil that are not in the pan and with only a half QT left in the pan and guess what happens next ...
Inlarging the pan and cutting some of the oil supply to the head will be needed for one mile plus runs at WOT ... Smokin ..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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duncan
Expert Class
Posts: 341
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posted January 22, 2008 12:32 PM
I would also suggest a swing pickup because of the oil being slung to the rear of the pan violently. I'm doing this for sure on my build now.
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hotrod360
Novice Class
Posts: 63
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posted January 23, 2008 02:11 AM
quote:
quote:
I have a couple questions for Rob on this kit. First - what do the turbo piston do - are they wstronger or do they decrease compression. Second - can this kit be used for land speed - i.e. sustained full throttle - Bonneville 1.5 min WOT or Maxton .5 minutes. Would it require an intercooler for such an application. I understand that the 14 has fairly weak valve springs - should they be upgraded. Also what is the risk of an oil starvation related problem - especially in a racing application - land speed or the strip - For example spinning the bearing?
Thanks,
Kevin
Turbo pistons will have a thicker dome but the real trick is to lower upper ring land ...The factory while a very good piston it has the ring land to close to the valve pocket cut and that will cause problem with a turbo or spray .. Intercooling is great idea if you can find a place to put it ...Water alky injection would be easier ( takes less room ) to set up on our zx14 than an intercooler ... But you can do this without them , the trick is to use fuel to cool the incoming charge ....A/F ratio ramping up to 11.8 to 11.2 at full boost will cool the intake charge and in turn cool the head and pistons ....With a A/F ratio 12 and up you will boil the water in the head real fast and that's when the problems start .... With the proper fuel grade ( C16 ) and A/F ratio you could run for miles at WOT with no problems ...
OK on to the oil , Yes you need more oil .... A larger pan that would hold an extra Qt would be the place to start ...The reason for more oil is the engine will speed up ( time wise ) and so will the oil from the pump ...Here is the bad part , the oil will still drain back to the pan at the same speed it did without the turbo ..You are pumping the same amount of oil but with a turbo you are doing it in half the time but your drain back time remains the same ... Look at it this way ...You have 1 1/2 QTs in the head and cams , you have a QT caught up in the crank windage , you have a QT caught up in the Trans ....That's 3 1/2+ QTs of oil that are not in the pan and with only a half QT left in the pan and guess what happens next ...
Inlarging the pan and cutting some of the oil supply to the head will be needed for one mile plus runs at WOT ... Smokin ..
he hit it on the head!!!
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R Muzzy
Parking Attendant
Posts: 22
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posted January 23, 2008 11:00 AM
The MUZZY Turbo pistons have less compression and much thicker dome.
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R Muzzy
Parking Attendant
Posts: 22
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posted January 23, 2008 11:15 AM
The Turbo bikes we have run at Bonneville have had stock oil systems including the pan. No problems.
I would not waste the money on a billet crank, the stock crank is plenty strong.
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted January 23, 2008 11:24 AM
Im curious as to why one would restrict oil to the head instead of just letting it come back down easier? wouldnt it be nice to have the same amount of oil going to the head instead of less? if the problem is the oil hanging out up in the head, just add a return line or 2. (most of you guys must have seen top end oiler kits on the old school bikes. just use the same type of lines/fittings) stick it on the back of the head somewhere, and run it right to the oil pick up area. just let gravity do its thing.
i have been thinking about doing something like this to my 12
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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smokinzx14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted January 23, 2008 12:10 PM
quote:
The Turbo bikes we have run at Bonneville have had stock oil systems including the pan. No problems.
I would not waste the money on a billet crank, the stock crank is plenty strong.
What zx14 have you run at Bonneville ???
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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smokinzx14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted January 23, 2008 12:34 PM
quote:
Im curious as to why one would restrict oil to the head instead of just letting it come back down easier? wouldnt it be nice to have the same amount of oil going to the head instead of less? if the problem is the oil hanging out up in the head, just add a return line or 2. (most of you guys must have seen top end oiler kits on the old school bikes. just use the same type of lines/fittings) stick it on the back of the head somewhere, and run it right to the oil pick up area. just let gravity do its thing.
i have been thinking about doing something like this to my 12
Well that will work IF you can find a way to make it drain back faster. Best bet would be a dry sump system..Kawi over oils the top end so a little less oil up top is not going to hurt anything ...I'd rather have the extra oil going to the crank ....Two biggest problems on any turbo bike are burnt pistons and spun rod bearing ... With a turbo bike things happen real fast like a spun rod bearing will in just a few seconds over heat the rod to a point where it breaks and goes out the cases ... So extra oil acting as coolant is a big help ..If you were just going to race 1/4 i would worry a little less ...But 3 miles or 5 miles WOT i want extra oil ...
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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1badvespa1400cc
Zone Head
power junkie
Posts: 691
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posted January 25, 2008 06:47 AM
In the last picture what are the lines that are running under the bike for?Fuel and oil lines?
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Just another foeteen!!!!!
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davej
Expert Class
Posts: 451
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posted January 25, 2008 11:01 AM
Those are the oil feed to the turbo from the sending unit to check valve to turbo.( small lines.) Large lines are the oil return from the turbo back into the crankcase at the oil fill. Scavenge pump is in the middle of the big lines.
Three ZX-14's were at the Salt flats including mine. Oil return is a new issue and not one we experienced or even knew was a problem. 4.8 liters is alot for any motorcycle.
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Triumph guy
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1badvespa1400cc
Zone Head
power junkie
Posts: 691
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posted January 25, 2008 11:07 AM
Can you get more detailed pics of how you ran the lines and where they are connected,thanks.
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Just another foeteen!!!!!
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davej
Expert Class
Posts: 451
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posted January 25, 2008 12:13 PM
I would have to bring the bike back to the machine shop remove the lower fairing and raise it with the crane. Contact Muzzy and they can e-mail whatever you need. We just got through with a snow storm and the roads are messy. I haven't rode the bike yet in temperature over 33 degrees which has been a cold 300+ miles since New Years.
This brings up a question as to why motorcycles are still using 10-40. General Motors found that the polymer content was way to high. Three times more than 10-30. GM discontinued 10-40 back in the early 80's. Any oil engineers out there?
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Triumph guy
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duncan
Expert Class
Posts: 341
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posted January 25, 2008 02:08 PM
I'm no engineer but 10-40 will have bettor oil pressure than 10-30.
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davej
Expert Class
Posts: 451
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posted January 25, 2008 05:13 PM
The relief spring controls the oil pressure in you oil pump system. From experience with Grand National Buicks,20-50 it's almost instant rod bearing lunch. One fellow in Tooele, Utah, our former programmer, runs 0-30 and puts out over 700hp.Just thick enough to maintain idle oil pressure. Another buddy built up his Trans Am and ran 20-50 with the same results, lunchy bye rod bearing. I'll check with our engineers on this subject. This is the first time in years that I've delt with modern motorcycles and 10-40 scares me.
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Triumph guy
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davej
Expert Class
Posts: 451
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posted January 31, 2008 07:01 PM
Checked around with alot of people, . Going to run 0-30 full syn Motul and run a series of oil tests at different parameters.
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Triumph guy
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bigbore4
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted February 01, 2008 01:15 AM
Just a clarification on Oil Pressure.
The relief valve does NOT control the oil pressure in the system. The Relief valve controls the Maximum oil pressure that the system is allowed to have. Prevents oil filters and such from being blown off.
The pump and system specs / clearances are what will determine the operating pressure of the system.
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ninja14
Pro
Posts: 1136
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posted February 06, 2008 11:27 PM
Is there any advantage to boosting the whole airbox vs. a plenum?
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2006 Turbo ZX-14.
2005 V-max 20th Anniv.
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davej
Expert Class
Posts: 451
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posted February 07, 2008 06:55 AM
Uniform pressure.
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Triumph guy
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