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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX-14.com > Thread: PCIII vs Techlusion TFI NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
ghostman


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posted December 14, 2007 05:44 AM        
PCIII vs Techlusion TFI

Has anyone had any experience with the Techlusion unit?

Is it applicable for the 14?

How does TFI compare to the PCIII for the 14.
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rquinn


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posted December 14, 2007 07:56 AM        
I had great success with it on a ZX12R 1/8 mile stock motor 210lbs rider 121 mph @ the 1/8 is great and I let someone talk me into putting a PC111 on and it went to shit mph @ the 1/8 fell off to 115 and 116 mph. It took sometime to get it set but when I did it was on.
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RON QUINN

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ghostman


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posted December 14, 2007 08:17 AM        
Cool Ron, trying to figure out my best option. Ordering TiForce High Mount Full System this winter and trying to find the best and most linear way to connect to ECU and enhance fuel management without too many issues.

Just wondering how true it is; It's said that the PCIII lies to the ECU and the TFI supposedly works with the ECU.

Any more insight?



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Sticks_n_Stones


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posted December 14, 2007 09:25 AM        
Sounds like my first wife versus my second wife! Is there a option "C"???
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...

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port_angeles_ninja


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posted December 14, 2007 09:42 AM        
Neither one lies to, or works with, the ecu. Both sit between the ECU fuel injector outputs and the injectors.

The ECU determines how much fuel to inject into each cylinder based on RPM and throttle position (RPM and Throttle Vacuum at idle) and turns on a voltage to fire the injector. The length of time this voltage is on determines how long the injector will be fired, and therefore the quantity of fuel delivered.

When you install a PC or TFI the voltage that used to go to the injector goes to the PC or TFI instead. The PC or TFI then sends it's own voltage pulse to the injector to fire it.

The PC III can send either Longer or Shorter pulses to the injector than the ECU's pulse (depending on if you put a positive or negative number in the map). The TFI can ONLY send a longer pulse (it can only richen the mixture compared to the factory map, not lean it out).

With the PC III you can select between multiple maps for different situations (with or without nitrous for example). With the TFI you have to turn pots on the unit to change settings.

Bottom line is the the PCIII is more expensive, and much more versatile. The only advantage the TFI seems to have is price and simplicity.

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Sticks_n_Stones


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posted December 14, 2007 10:57 AM        
Thought the PCIII could tweak timing settings, too. When are bikes going to get real computers like cars have had for, oh about 20 + years?!?!
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...

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port_angeles_ninja


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posted December 14, 2007 11:33 AM        
i think if you buy an extra module for the PC III you can adjust timing with it.
What do you mean by "Real Computers"? The ECU on a modern bike is just like the ecu on a car. The 14 ecu is actually OBD-II compliant and uses CANbus, the newest physical layer that cars are using for their OBD communication. Problem is there is not enough of a market for companies to build cheap hardware interfaces to the vehicle network like the ones you buy at shucks for a car. A regular OBD-II scan tool SHOULD work if you built a custom cable to plug into the bike and the scan tool, i haven't gotten around to trying it yet.
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stan55


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Posts: 112
posted December 14, 2007 12:25 PM        
I have the FASTCARD Gen III (TFI) on my 07 R1.... It make more power that the PCIII... I did a head To head on it. Here's the link. I just order one for my ZX-14.





http://www.dcsportbikes.net/forum/showthread.php?t=29460


Stan

quote:
Has anyone had any experience with the Techlusion unit?

Is it applicable for the 14?

How does TFI compare to the PCIII for the 14.

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ghostman


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posted December 14, 2007 12:59 PM        
Good info Fellas.
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Sticks_n_Stones


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posted December 14, 2007 02:52 PM        
Look, that little POS they call a computer for bikes IS NOT a computer! You cannot program it. It does not adjust itself to all the parameters (like an O2 sensor) that cars do.
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...

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BlackMagic14


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posted December 14, 2007 03:31 PM        
SnS it is not the computer you are talking about I dont thiink. What I think you are talking about is a closed loop system like most automobile fuel injection systems that adjust A/F ratio depending on weather factors and other things most bikes use a open loop system the biggest reason is price a closed loop system is much more expensive then an open loop. And as far as the TFI I dont know if it is the one I am thinking about but there is one coming out soon that is supposed to be head and tails better then the PCIII I am waiting untill some poeple get one and try it out first though. The biggest advantage that the PCIII has of now is it is the BUSA of Fuel modulation devices "everyone has one and everyone knows how to tune one" it may not be the best but it is definately the most common and with the the tuning link software that dynojet has now a retarded monkey could make a perfect map for a PCIII
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Sticks_n_Stones


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posted December 17, 2007 07:18 AM        
quote:
... and with the the tuning link software that dynojet has now a retarded monkey could make a perfect map for a PCIII

OK so where do I get the software since its now Sticks friendly??
Sooner or later they will have to make a real, modern, programmable closed loop bike computer because, like cars, sooner or later the emissions will require it.



Too bad those same emissions will kill any high HP bikes at the same time...
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...

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port_angeles_ninja


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posted December 17, 2007 07:50 AM        
Cars use closd loop fuel injection at low to mid engine loading (cruising), they switch to open loop under hard acceleration or mid-large throttle opening. The time spent running in closed loop is for one reason and one reason only, to pass emissions laws. When the engine needs to produce horsepower (throttle opening above about 20%, RPM above 50%-60%) it does so in open loop operation. Price and weight of the closed loop system would be slightly more, and that may be part of the reason it is not used on bikes. Another part of the reason may be that the only time the system would be in closed loop would be at stop lights (thats the only time i an ever at < 5000 RPM). Whatever the reason, the longer EPA mandated closed loop fuel injection stays on cars and off bikes the better off we are.

As for programming, the difference between cars and bikes is not the ECU itself, it is a matter of a mass market for programming hardware/software.
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Sticks_n_Stones


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posted December 17, 2007 08:55 AM        
No, its a price issue only ninja. I've made my own fuel/timing maps for cars before, I actually am familiar with them, and I tell you I could make a car computer work with a EFI bike if I really wanted to. Waste of alot of time, though. But it only costs, say GM, a few hundred dollars for each computer, regardless of what car it goes on.

It would be fairly easy, though, to take an aftermarket "Race Use Only" ECU and make it work on a bike, but I will not spend $2000 + just to get that programmability. My bikes are for pleasure, not race, I'm done with all that (at least I keep telling myself that...). Also, the open loop setting you are referring to is WOT, which is in general (all are a bit different) at 80%+ throttle; gear, speed, and RPM dependant and also if you have the right software all of that is adjustable with a stock ECU.

My experience with "other peoples money" is a wideband sensor for each bank, running closed loop 100% on a Big Stuff 3 computer, laptop in car and a 200 mile mixed driving road trip to map it properly at lower rpm's and part throttle settings. Frustration is: everyone who hears "Fuel Injection" and assumes that said engine will perform flawlessly on the street and strip by just 'throwing it on'...

____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...

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