bishopzx12
Zone Head
Posts: 517
|
posted August 22, 2007 06:59 AM
VP oxgenated/nonoxgenated race fuels that you can spray
Hey guys i am not new to nitrous but i am a little new to oxgenated fuels. I read somewhere that you can utilize the extra hp given to you by oxgenated fuels along with nitrous to get a little edge at the track. However i hear there are only two that you can use which are U4 and MRX01. I am currently geting my bike tuned for pump gas but in the future i may want to try a race fuel. With my 12 i have use NO2 fuel which was a 120 ocatane in which it probably was a little over kill, C12,C16 and vp110. Havent had a problem out of any of them. I just want to know what do you guys reccomend for a 50 shot on the 14. I have the muzzy airshifter/nitrous kit.
____________
1996 ZX7R
1999 ZX9R
1999 ZX11
2000 ZX12R 1270
2002 GSXR 1000 "I was Drunk"
2003 ZX12R 1375
2006 ZX14
2012 ZX14R
  
|
Pat Dietrich
Expert Class
Posts: 148
|
posted August 22, 2007 07:32 AM
Make sure your map is set-up for the fuel then just bump up your high bars all the way to be safe. Also while on the dyno try the nitrous-bars up and see where your A/F is. On my old busa it was 12:6 so I was plenty safe. Personally, I wouldn't go over a 40 shot dry. My 40 gave me 47 on the dyno.
|
kspz3
Expert Class
Posts: 334
|
posted August 22, 2007 09:19 AM
Why would you use oxygenated fuel with Nitrous - as I thought the whole point of nitrous OXIDE was to add denser oxygen content..... do a 55 HP shot instead with lots of octane in the gasoline not oxygen - IMHO...... BTW - I am using MR9 and MR 10 for land speed racing because I do not want to use N2O...... (and other things that make the engine go pop!) - KSP
|
tslewisz
Expert Class
Posts: 328
|
posted August 22, 2007 09:28 AM
There's a chart of race fuels and recommended applications on the following page, about half-way down.
http://www.schnitzracing.com/technical_corner.htm
|
Pat Dietrich
Expert Class
Posts: 148
|
posted August 22, 2007 09:33 AM
kspz3- My reason is because I like to run on motor and nitrous on the same day. WIth that being said, I don't want to have to change fuels just to make a couple passes on nitrous.
|
bishopzx12
Zone Head
Posts: 517
|
posted August 22, 2007 11:05 AM
tslewisz saw that cahrt on the vp web site but just like anything in life i wanted to hear from peole who had actually tried it. appreciate the info though bro.
____________
1996 ZX7R
1999 ZX9R
1999 ZX11
2000 ZX12R 1270
2002 GSXR 1000 "I was Drunk"
2003 ZX12R 1375
2006 ZX14
2012 ZX14R
|
kspz3
Expert Class
Posts: 334
|
posted August 22, 2007 06:03 PM
My experience = MR0X same as pump gas - wallet is much lighter......
MR( is good and MR 10 is better = probably 6 and 8 HP - All VP fuels seem to produce about 50% of the claimed gains .
All of the oxygenated require you to drain tank - that would be a pain - $150 per bucket of MR10.... $115 for MR9 - - HAven't used U4.2 - but it may be a reasonable race fuel = it is $60 or $65 per bucket as I recall.
KSP
|
smokinzx14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
|
posted August 22, 2007 08:16 PM
I used u4 with spray on my zx14 and had no problems with 30 shot ...P/C was set to 12% rich on the top 1/3 of the p/c .Smokin..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
|
BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
|
posted August 23, 2007 12:11 AM
I talked to Brock about this same subject he reccomended MRX01 he said it works extremly well on motor and spray unfortunately I havnt found any yet...
|
bishopzx12
Zone Head
Posts: 517
|
posted August 23, 2007 04:05 AM
Hey blackmagic i hope that you meant unfortunately you have been un able to locate some MRX01. And you meant that brock said iw works great i guess it was a straight sentence and i am a little unclear what you were saying. Anywho if that is the case can yo ask him about U4 also. i have acces to bothe and both are oxygenated the only thing is U4 is $70 bucks and MRX01 is $100. I know the higher octane rating for MRX01 is 98 and would be good for the nitrous but i also think the 92 octane rating for U4 should be good as well considering most of us only use 93 when spraying anything from a 30-50 shot.what do you think and if you could get brock to opinion it would be well appreciated
____________
1996 ZX7R
1999 ZX9R
1999 ZX11
2000 ZX12R 1270
2002 GSXR 1000 "I was Drunk"
2003 ZX12R 1375
2006 ZX14
2012 ZX14R
|
salsa1
Needs a life
Posts: 5971
|
posted August 23, 2007 06:21 AM
Just an idea here ;
I have perfected siphoning out what fuel I can and running the tank dry when I switch back and forth from U4 to pump gas and vise versa...
I just fill up a quart of fuel and take it out with me.. usually run dry in less than 5 minuites...then pour quart of fuel and go back to my garage or race whatever the application...
beats draining the tank by taking it off the main line...at least this works well for me when racing my ZX-10R..or ready for garage time again..
Efficient and painless...except for tasting fuel...  .
____________
Salsa1
|
bayou boy
Expert Class
Posts: 147
|
posted August 23, 2007 06:34 AM
i run c-16 , cause i have a high compression 13-5-1, on 65 shot, but that 65shot turns into something like 38-40hp for real,so stock pistions can take a 40 shot reg, c-16 works real well nos.
i also like c-12 also
|
bishopzx12
Zone Head
Posts: 517
|
posted August 23, 2007 07:35 AM
I agree with you bayou boy that i swhat i ran with my zx-12. I just wanted to try something new so i can get some good passes on motor alone
____________
1996 ZX7R
1999 ZX9R
1999 ZX11
2000 ZX12R 1270
2002 GSXR 1000 "I was Drunk"
2003 ZX12R 1375
2006 ZX14
2012 ZX14R
|
smokinzx14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
|
posted August 23, 2007 08:09 AM
That's why i hate running spray ...Changing maps and fuel from run to run is just to much work ......Thats why we tried U4 and it worked for us with no problems ...I'm not saying it will work as it did for us on your bike......With u4 i can run motor and go fast then switch on the spray, Just bump up the map and spray ...You still have to change the map but that's easier than changing Map and the fuel...Brock told me the same thing to use MRX01 with spray and not use U4 .... I have not tried MRX01 yet to see if the motor likes it without spray, but at 100 bucks i'm not likely going to try it anytime soon ....Smokin..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
|
Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
|
posted August 23, 2007 09:24 AM
how about avgas? anyone here dyno or drag it versus pump gas? I've ran it quite a bit on my TL1000R and my buddy runs it nonstop in his 636. we both go for a 50/50 mix since it has drying agents in it to keep the moisture out, the drying agent supposedly makes your exhaust a bit hotter, but I never noticed even when i ran it 100%. its 102 octane I believe, last time I bought it was $5.10 a gallon and all you gotta do is take a couple gas cans up to the pump and filler up at your local airfield. I've never been asked, but if someone does just say its for your ultralite plane you fly outta your backyard. I've had airfield guys pull up to me before, but they just wanted to make sure the can was grounded. It smells exactly like the race gas my friends run, just leaves a brite white residue on your outlets. My buddies 636 hanges with my TL1000R when he runs it, I pull him a bit when he doesnt if that helps. good luck!
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
|
bishopzx12
Zone Head
Posts: 517
|
posted August 23, 2007 10:17 AM
Might want to look into it. Hey smoking to clarify that was 100 for 5 gallon pail along with 70 for a 5 gallon pail of U4
____________
1996 ZX7R
1999 ZX9R
1999 ZX11
2000 ZX12R 1270
2002 GSXR 1000 "I was Drunk"
2003 ZX12R 1375
2006 ZX14
2012 ZX14R
|
ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
|
posted August 24, 2007 10:13 AM
Yeap, been that price for a while, might go up soon. 
|
Pat Dietrich
Expert Class
Posts: 148
|
posted August 24, 2007 06:41 PM
quote:
how about avgas? anyone here dyno or drag it versus pump gas? I've ran it quite a bit on my TL1000R and my buddy runs it nonstop in his 636. we both go for a 50/50 mix since it has drying agents in it to keep the moisture out, the drying agent supposedly makes your exhaust a bit hotter, but I never noticed even when i ran it 100%. its 102 octane I believe, last time I bought it was $5.10 a gallon and all you gotta do is take a couple gas cans up to the pump and filler up at your local airfield. I've never been asked, but if someone does just say its for your ultralite plane you fly outta your backyard. I've had airfield guys pull up to me before, but they just wanted to make sure the can was grounded. It smells exactly like the race gas my friends run, just leaves a brite white residue on your outlets. My buddies 636 hanges with my TL1000R when he runs it, I pull him a bit when he doesnt if that helps. good luck!
That stuff ain't doing you any good on stock bikes. Your wasting your $$ and probably slowing your bike down.
|
BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
|
posted August 24, 2007 11:26 PM
Yesw bishop I menat I cant find anyone around here that stocks MRX01 I can get MR9 fairly easily and I can probably get u4 as well... Next time I talk to Brock I will ask him abou tthe U4 ?
|
Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
|
posted August 25, 2007 12:12 PM
quote:
That stuff ain't doing you any good on stock bikes. Your wasting your $$ and probably slowing your bike down.
What part of I've seen the difference did you not see? seriously, it makes a difference for sure on my friends 636, though I can't feel any seat of the pants difference myself. I'm sure of course with a ignition advancer or higher compression than 91 octane could handle the potential of 102 octane could be better realized, but it does make a difference. I live in Washington state which has most if not all the gas stations running the oxygenated crap gasoline. The power gain experienced could be due to that (avgas is not oxygenated, the HP loss would actually matter to a planes safety versus a car/bike). The point is, if you got boost or higher than stock compression its a cheaper alternative. I know the specially designed oxygenated race fuels ARE NOT the same thing as oxygenated pump gas. complete opposites, actually. pump gas is 'oxygenated' by adding alcohol and MTBE's, up to a 20% of each gallon of gas. which equals a 10-15% loss of power/mileage I must assume is do to crappier base petroleum because of the octane boost from alcohol.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/oxygenate.htm
Oxygenated race gas, however, is oxygenated AND uses a high quality petroleum base, which must explain the numerous dyno charts showing an improvement over pump gas. I have yet to find a reliable explanation for why there is such a huge descrepency between oxygenated pump gas and oxygenated race gas but I'll keep looking. Oh yeah, avgas USED to be highly leaded gas, but (at least in Washington) they have had to go to a low-lead content, so combined 50/50 with pump gas it's supposed to be fine for catalyctic converters and O2 sensors. My brother uses it alot in his built IROC, with a wideband sensor, and after 10,000 hard miles his sensor is just fine. FYI
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
|
nox
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
|
posted August 26, 2007 11:08 AM
You dont have to drain U4, unless you just want to........., I only drain mine over the winter........
No loss of performance, no pump, seals, or anything else with issues........
zx12
been using it for like 4 years now
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
|
Nukedog
Expert Class
Posts: 449
|
posted August 26, 2007 11:43 AM
quote:
You dont have to drain U4, unless you just want to........., I only drain mine over the winter........
No loss of performance, no pump, seals, or anything else with issues........
zx12
been using it for like 4 years now
Good info...
____________
02 Busa...Turbo...
09 YZF-R6S...
|
nox
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
|
posted August 26, 2007 01:47 PM
When I do drain it, I run it on pump gas, and start it a few times a month over the winter and warm it up, and all.......
No probs yet.
I ran my bike last night with U 4. Taking it back in two weeks. All i will do is clean the bike, and make adjustments to the lockup............, Fuel will stay.
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
|
Pat Dietrich
Expert Class
Posts: 148
|
posted August 27, 2007 05:12 AM
quote:
quote:
That stuff ain't doing you any good on stock bikes. Your wasting your $$ and probably slowing your bike down.
What part of I've seen the difference did you not see? seriously, it makes a difference for sure on my friends 636, though I can't feel any seat of the pants difference myself. I'm sure of course with a ignition advancer or higher compression than 91 octane could handle the potential of 102 octane could be better realized, but it does make a difference. I live in Washington state which has most if not all the gas stations running the oxygenated crap gasoline. The power gain experienced could be due to that (avgas is not oxygenated, the HP loss would actually matter to a planes safety versus a car/bike). The point is, if you got boost or higher than stock compression its a cheaper alternative. I know the specially designed oxygenated race fuels ARE NOT the same thing as oxygenated pump gas. complete opposites, actually. pump gas is 'oxygenated' by adding alcohol and MTBE's, up to a 20% of each gallon of gas. which equals a 10-15% loss of power/mileage I must assume is do to crappier base petroleum because of the octane boost from alcohol.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/oxygenate.htm
Oxygenated race gas, however, is oxygenated AND uses a high quality petroleum base, which must explain the numerous dyno charts showing an improvement over pump gas. I have yet to find a reliable explanation for why there is such a huge descrepency between oxygenated pump gas and oxygenated race gas but I'll keep looking. Oh yeah, avgas USED to be highly leaded gas, but (at least in Washington) they have had to go to a low-lead content, so combined 50/50 with pump gas it's supposed to be fine for catalyctic converters and O2 sensors. My brother uses it alot in his built IROC, with a wideband sensor, and after 10,000 hard miles his sensor is just fine. FYI
Put it on a dyno or run it down the track and show me the difference. Running your mouth don't prove a thing. You can type a story book for all i care and keep quoting readings that you have read ( like the oil thread) but thats not proving anything. Synthetic oils will wear out your clutch faster and a stock bike will slow down with high octane fuel period.
|
nox
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
|
posted August 27, 2007 05:26 AM
Ditto that............
Pat, did not know you were on here......
Oh, now I see, you switched tribes............LOL
Welcome
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC