psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted July 24, 2007 06:23 AM
Definately looks like Detonation!! Piston melted right between the valve relief cut outs. Probably pinched the rings in the collapsed grooves.
Inside cylinder probably runs a bit hotter.
What type of combo. are you running?!? Fuel / advance / mapping / pipe w/o mapping?!?!
@180 mph, on ram, If your LEAN...YOU WILL BURN A PISTON!
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
  
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reckless
Novice Class
Posts: 60
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posted July 24, 2007 08:00 AM
Hello Flyboy,
sorry I didn't have time to address every comment personally I was just making a general observation about the tone of the responses to jpcan's post of a problem.
I guess my comments were in a general way directed to the "old guard" as you put it.
Saying that someone has to qualify themselves first before you will listen to them seems a little elitist to me.
Whether or not I was a member of any of the ZX14 sites the first thing I would do if there was a problem with my bike would be to get as much input from as many fellow owners as possible. (definitely needed if the dealer says it is not covered under warranty)
Being told by those members that I was not being truthful would not be a welcome I would like. I think that smokinzx14's comment and questions were reasonable given that he didn't know jpcan.
Most of the comments after that were not even close to addressing the topic of the post.
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jpcan
Parking Attendant
Posts: 19
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posted July 24, 2007 08:10 AM
brock gen3 ,pc3usb,no advance,maped by a dynojet tuning center,will go back to brock maping as soon as engine 's back in frame,was way much richer with brock map but was pulling 179 rwh vs 181rwh with the dyno jet custum map.
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flyboy
Pro
Posts: 1536
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posted July 24, 2007 12:02 PM
Jpcan- thank you for the pictures and now we have trouble shooting to do. I would first check your maintenace records and map and please keep us abreast of your findings.
Reckless-- Your comments are well taken but go back and read Jpcan first post. I will paraphase- "My motor blew and now I'm gonna buy a Busa". The guy obviously did something wrong to his bike. Engines don't fail on their own.
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted July 24, 2007 01:05 PM
Engines don't fail on their own.
lmao...thats some funny stuff there....thanks flyboy...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted July 24, 2007 01:41 PM
why didn't you run the brocks map? he tunes for the ram air and adds gas accordingly.
your dyno guy gave you a dyno map and you leaned out on the big end with all the air and not enough fuel. with the lean condition you burned a piston.
if i use brocks pipe, i would damn sure use his map ,too.
just my 2 cents
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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smokinzx14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted July 24, 2007 01:48 PM
 Edited By: smokinzx14 on 24 Jul 2007 14:53
Looks like it was lean and seeing that you had it custom mapped by someone else.... The damage is not Mother Kawis falt.. I think i would be a little pissed at the tuner ....
Years ago i had a kz1000 with a turbo and it leaned out once or twice  and my pistons looked like yours .. Sucks but it can be fixed. By the way a Busa motor would have welded just like that if it were lean ..Good luck and let us know how it turns out ...Smokin...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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smokinzx14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted July 24, 2007 01:50 PM
OH P/S if you are going to be doing long top end runs i would use Brocks Maxton map , it's way richer on the top end than the Race map... Just to be safe 
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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shawnski
Pro
Posts: 1809
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posted July 24, 2007 02:05 PM
quote:
why didn't you run the brocks map? he tunes for the ram air and adds gas accordingly.
your dyno guy gave you a dyno map and you leaned out on the big end with all the air and not enough fuel. with the lean condition you burned a piston.
if i use brocks pipe, i would damn sure use his map ,too.
just my 2 cents
that was not the case with mine, i had to remap mine last week because the midrange bike ran very rich and after remap it runs alot stronger in mid rpm. the original map came from brocks with no flies map.
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smokinzx14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted July 24, 2007 02:19 PM
quote:
quote:
why didn't you run the brocks map? he tunes for the ram air and adds gas accordingly.
your dyno guy gave you a dyno map and you leaned out on the big end with all the air and not enough fuel. with the lean condition you burned a piston.
if i use brocks pipe, i would damn sure use his map ,too.
just my 2 cents
that was not the case with mine, i had to remap mine last week because the midrange bike ran very rich and after remap it runs alot stronger in mid rpm. the original map came from brocks with no flies map.
shawnski being on the edge of Lean will make HP and make for a snappy throttle....Problem is you leaned out the mid range and it will work fine at lower speeds where ram air is not coming into play......But lets say for some reason you were running 150 MPH for a long time ( none of us would do that ) At 150 you would not be at 100% throttle, you would be running on the mid range of your map ....That could cause just what we see in the pictures posted ( Burn piston ) .....Smokin..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted July 24, 2007 02:23 PM
quote:
Looks like it was lean and seeing that you had it custom mapped by someone else.... The damage is not Mother Kawis falt.. I think i would be a little pissed at the tuner ....
Years ago i had a kz1000 with a turbo and it leaned out once or twice and my pistons looked like yours .. Sucks but it can be fixed. By the way a Busa motor would have welded just like that if it were lean ..Good luck and let us know how it turns out ...Smokin...
Smokey you dumping on this guy for not useing "GODalmighty Brocks map"..but why just not use the stock map cuz Brocks map takes fuel off the top of it just like everybody's map except maybe Ivan's ... I got a look at alot of maps also....
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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smokinzx14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted July 24, 2007 02:33 PM
Edited By: smokinzx14 on 24 Jul 2007 15:36
quote:
quote:
Looks like it was lean and seeing that you had it custom mapped by someone else.... The damage is not Mother Kawis falt.. I think i would be a little pissed at the tuner ....
Years ago i had a kz1000 with a turbo and it leaned out once or twice and my pistons looked like yours .. Sucks but it can be fixed. By the way a Busa motor would have welded just like that if it were lean ..Good luck and let us know how it turns out ...Smokin...
Smokey you dumping on this guy for not useing "GODalmighty Brocks map"..but why just not use the stock map cuz Brocks map takes fuel off the top of it just like everybody's map except maybe Ivan's ... I got a look at alot of maps also....
No at not all ...I just want him to be safe and we know from Brock making many passes at Maxton that his Maxtom map is safe...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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thekaz
Needs a job
spell chequer is bustimicated
Posts: 2909
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posted July 24, 2007 02:33 PM
Edited By: thekaz on 24 Jul 2007 15:34
So Somikin ? Are you saying you should have the right map for the correct riding type ?
LOL I am just buggin ya :P
A good tuner will ask what the bike is being used for then tune accordingly....
This engine ran lean and suffered for it  Sad but a fact
Just be thankful that modern tuning is so easy
No more voodoo chants about which shim to use on the needle LOL
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smokinzx14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted July 24, 2007 02:35 PM
quote:
So Somikin ? Are you saying you should have the right map for the correct riding type ?
LOL I am just buggin ya :P
A good tuner will ask what the bike is being used for then tune accordingly....
This engine ran lean and suffered for it Sad but a fact
Just be thankful that modern tuning is so easy
No more voodoo chants about which shim to use on the needle LOL
lol
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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shawnski
Pro
Posts: 1809
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posted July 24, 2007 02:56 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
why didn't you run the brocks map? he tunes for the ram air and adds gas accordingly.
your dyno guy gave you a dyno map and you leaned out on the big end with all the air and not enough fuel. with the lean condition you burned a piston.
if i use brocks pipe, i would damn sure use his map ,too.
just my 2 cents
that was not the case with mine, i had to remap mine last week because the midrange bike ran very rich and after remap it runs alot stronger in mid rpm. the original map came from brocks with no flies map.
shawnski being on the edge of Lean will make HP and make for a snappy throttle....Problem is you leaned out the mid range and it will work fine at lower speeds where ram air is not coming into play......But lets say for some reason you were running 150 MPH for a long time ( none of us would do that ) At 150 you would not be at 100% throttle, you would be running on the mid range of your map ....That could cause just what we see in the pictures posted ( Burn piston ) .....Smokin..
i guess different map works for different style riding, what i got now works for me, still not happy with low rpm take off in first gear up to 3000 rpm, it is kinda spotty but i can live with it. it idles fine runs strong in mid range in first ,second and third and have not got to fourth yet:d
one thing else i noticed after the map change, it accelerate alot harder in 5th and 6th in 60, 70 miles roll ons.
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted July 24, 2007 04:30 PM
run it hard lean and find out big boy, i like my wide open performance and will always err on the rich side. i don't care which friggin map you run. i hope you don't run brocks so i can smoke you. and if you have some squid tune your bike and it blows up don't bitch. my low rpm take off is great and i am ecstatic about the midrange and top end as well. the brocks mapping is flawless. i live in florida near sea level and its hot and humid, his maps work great here, and even better when it gets cooler. also richer runs cooler, go figure, i never had an overheating problem either.
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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shawnski
Pro
Posts: 1809
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posted July 24, 2007 05:01 PM
the squid did a great job mapping it and bike feels alot stronger and i don't have to prove anything to u bigdtd. brocks is not the only one know what he is doing. there are alot of well qualified people out there that they can do as good as job. what are you spokeman for brocks or what?
i like the brock product and that is why i bought it , i love the sound of it and look, not happy with map and fixed it.
believe me this zx14 is not my first bike i have been riding since i was 8 years old and i am 50 years old and had about 17 sports bike with different modifications and none blown yet so why don't go ride your supper power zx14 and smoke everyone in florida. 
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted July 24, 2007 05:22 PM
"brocks is not the only one know what he is doing. there are alot of well qualified people out there that they can do as good as job. what are you spokeman for brocks or what?"
disagree that there are a lot out there that could do as well. go to the drag strip (like a semdra race) and see what the fast bikes are running. performance is the spokesman for brocks. i know a lot of folks in the racing business that have nothing but respect for the guy. if you ever have an issue you get a personal e-mail promptly. the guy cares and it shows in his products and service. no one did more homework as quickly as he did for the benefit of the 14 rider. muzzy also knows his stuff also but is more concentrated on his pro efforts. no i don't get paid by brock but i know how hard it used to be to get your bike right after mods. the work he did on the 14 was and is groundbreaking. also check the record books see if your tuner is there.
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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jpcan
Parking Attendant
Posts: 19
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posted July 25, 2007 04:09 AM
thanks anyway guys,i am going back to brock map cause never had troubles before with his maps and when i call him he is always helpfull.have learn it the hard way but have learned.by the way did not get it pay by kawy so it costed me 3000.bucks.thank you guys....your informations tell me what i was thingking.not enough fuel,=too much heat.
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nightmare
Pro
ACP Racing
Posts: 1797
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posted July 25, 2007 04:40 AM
So i take it that you are not mad at kawi anymore?
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2006 ZX14 Ninja "SWINE FLU"
60ft 1.23
8th Mile 5.16
ACP Racing
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jpcan
Parking Attendant
Posts: 19
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posted July 25, 2007 06:09 AM
i am a kawasaki man since i have motorcycle so i m just sad that i have a brand new bike stock in the garage and riding with my hold 02 zx12r with 174rwhp and 50000km on it but it still make the job.allmost done fixing the 14 engine .took long time cause crankcase was b/o at kawa ,got it monday so working on it every evening after work.
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sands
Expert Class
Posts: 151
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posted July 25, 2007 01:53 PM
jpcan, what was the a/F ratio like with the map that you were running ? Do you have a pic of it ?
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www.nonationalid.com
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted July 25, 2007 02:03 PM
quote:
i the 14 engine .took long time cause crankcase was b/o at kawa ,.
THATS SHOULD SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THE KAWA
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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Kawi Only
Parking Attendant
Posts: 19
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posted July 25, 2007 02:14 PM
YOU GUYS ARE BRUTAL!
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dutchzx14
Expert Class
Posts: 213
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posted July 25, 2007 11:26 PM
I know fure sure its a overheating seized... don't howl about it, nice moment to put a big bore kit in it....!
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