HiMile14
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posted May 18, 2007 07:00 PM
Goldwing ZX-14 Part 2
Well it's been 2 months since I started my new job traveling 160 miles a day and I wanted to update everyone on the 14's progress (and the VFR's as well). Sorry for starting a new thread but I did not want to re-hash that whole tire thing again.
OK speaking of tires I went ahead and replaced all tires on all bikes in the last 2 weeks mainly because of rainy season here in Florida. I went with the Dunlop Qualifier, I really did not have a choice due to a nail pushing into and out of the rear tire. I've ridden 10K on a plug but never had the nail made it to the side wall, just too dangerous. The 14 is very very stable with a flat tire, I was traveling 80-85 mph (per speedo) it was only on the curves did I know something was not right. My Stop and Go plug kit did an excellent job patching things up but in the 25 miles I had to ride to get a new tire a neat bubble formed where the nail had been.
Last week my VFR's M3 started working into the wear bars so I went with a dunlop 220.
On Monday while riding the VFR to work I noted a click, click, click while stopping. The more I rode the more vibes were noted through the front end. At first I thought it was the steering bearings but the vibes were present even on a silky smooth straight-a-ways, which to me left only the wheel bearings. Pulling off the front tire I rolled my finger through both sides of the axial and sure enough one of the bearings was gone. A while back I talked to a rider in the middle of Idaho waiting for a bearing because he lost one during a cross country trip. Anyway ever since I carry a set of bearings with me. I took the tire to the shop and had them install the new set of bearings and tire....Guess I should order a set for the ZX huh.
About a month ago my VFR's RK Gold W-Ring Chain gave up the ghost. Here's a nice topic, and my history. A traditional O-ring chain will last between 8-14K. X-ring between 12-15K and finally the W-ring chain lasted 20K. I always replace the front sprocket but leave the rear...in fact puss-boy here still has the stock rear sprocket on the VFR. My point the W-ring chain is in fact a better chain than anything else out there I just don't know if you all can justify the cost. Forgive me if some of these prices are dated but O-ring chain cost about 85, Gold X-ring about 115 and Gold W-Ring 180 dollars.
Finally as I close in on 5000 miles on the ZX's Oil the bike is having a neat stalling problem. I fire her up in the morning and during it's first min. warm up as the idle slows she will just stop. This is not the first time, right before I tuned her up at 14K she was doing the same thing. This bike just really appreciates clean oil, after I change out the oil if she still stalls I will report back, but I'm pretty sure it's the oil. Thats all for now
Rob
ZX-14 24,648 miles
VFR 91,167 miles
  
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stevewfl
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posted May 18, 2007 07:25 PM
Rob, Great post!
"I've ridden 10K on a plug " <-----don't let that guy screen name "D" in the other thread see this!
I've had my ZX oil changed at 3K so far.
I
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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dubious
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posted May 18, 2007 07:52 PM
I change my wheel brgs every spring needed or not....
Mine sees the speed limiter quite frequently.... like almost every time I ride it, and usually its not just once during a ride, sometimes several times ina day, and i have averaged 140 mph, over the course of 2 consecuitive tanks of fuel.
bad bearings can be a killer....
I couldn't believe the plug in my pirelli stayed in through the last day of its life, burnouts to the steel belts and all!
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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stevewfl
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posted May 18, 2007 07:55 PM
quote:
I couldn't believe the plug in my pirelli stayed in through the last day of its life, burnouts to the steel belts and all!
+1
I couldn't either 
It has to be because of the brand of tires being so "hard" !
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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HiMile14
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posted May 19, 2007 07:27 AM
Steve,
I got a nail in a rear tire with about 800 miles on it. I plugged it then checked every week psi. It held perfect 42 psi. I just kept riding it until I got a second nail over 10K later, two nails on one tire sort of speak.
Dubious,
No kidding about the bearings, this is the first time I have ever changed out a bearing. Another lesson learned I guess.
Rob
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dubious
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posted May 19, 2007 08:07 AM
I was surprised to find the seals and brg for both wheels and the sprocket hub totalled to LESS than $75
Cheap insurance for sure.
Imagine what a locked wheel would do to you at speed..... scary!
Just thought I'd raise awareness for those unaware.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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HiMile14
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posted May 19, 2007 05:27 PM
Cheap insurance for sure.
Imagine what a locked wheel would do to you at speed..... scary!
D,
This is true but to some defense to the riders, the bearings do throw you clues that they are going bad. But also keep in mind once they start going, there may not be a hell of a lot of time between the clue and failure.
Rob
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ninja12
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posted May 19, 2007 06:11 PM
quote:
Steve,
I got a nail in a rear tire with about 800 miles on it. I plugged it then checked every week psi. It held perfect 42 psi. I just kept riding it until I got a second nail over 10K later, two nails on one tire sort of speak.
Rob
Cut a new dunlop 207gp once, hole took 2 plug at the same time to fill the hole so i could get home. I rode to the store a few times then a little more , ...... until one day I forgot about the plug and found myself on the track. Not the smartest thing I've ever done but it held until tire wore completely out. I've never spit a plug from any type tire.
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phytrax
Zone Head
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posted May 19, 2007 10:41 PM
i'm getting close to 9k miles on my 14. What do you guys recommend as critical maintenance? I guess I'm due for plugs but what else? Bearings and chain? I approach the limiter about once/week I guess. I think I am due for a tune up since my last top speed run was only about 178, but maybe it was just because I had the backrest on.
____________
Concourse14- Corbin Seat, Candy Apple Red Paint, Area P Slip-On
RIP+ZX-14- Brock's Gen3, Heli Risers, Corbin Bags, Corbin Seat and Oval Backrest (Burgandy Snakeskin and black alligator), Muzzys Frame Sliders, flies out, 18t front sprocket, PC3, Puig Double Bubble, Pirelli Diablo Strada's
KX450F - kickstand
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NinjaNick
Needs a job
'08 ZX14 (Blue)
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posted May 19, 2007 11:18 PM
I grease my bearings every tire change. They should last for a LONG time if you keep them greased. I use Bel-Ray Grease. Changing bearings every season is kind of a waste. Just my $.02. 
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himile14
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posted May 20, 2007 05:09 AM
phytrax,
At 9,000 miles your really right in the middle of any major tune. I understand you run you bike harder than I run mine but provided you stay on top of your maintenance I'm thinking your chain and bearings will be fine. Never hurts to throw a little grease (bearings) in there every time you replace the front wheel but outside of that I think your fine.
You are just about due for fork oil, something that if you have done before is no big deal, but if you have not plan about 4-5 hours. I can do mine in about 2-3 hours but I tend to want to replace the brake/clutch fluid at the same time, I hate looking at dirty fluid (OK maybe I'm a bit anal) and with changing the fluid bleeding the brakes. This is also a good time to check your brake pads, I suspect they are fine but you do use yours a bit more than I use mine. If nothing else it will give you piece of mind.
I think at 9k that should about cover it, I will replace my plugs at 30K or every 15K. Even at 15k my plugs did not look that bad but again you do ride harder than me so go with your thinking.
Ninja Nick, the VFR's bearing had all of 91,000 miles on them, yep they do last a long time. They do go down-hill fast once they start failing but you will have clues of the failure. In my case I had a irritating vibration coming through the front suspension. A heads up, most shops do not carry bearings so there may be a long lead time (week or so) getting your bearings. I'm going to order a set for both the VFR and ZX.
Rob
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phytrax
Zone Head
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posted May 21, 2007 03:15 AM
I did grease mine when I changed the tires recently. I didn't remove them to grease them though, I guess that's ok. I used some synthetic grease. When I first got the bike the front wheel was squeaking at low speed. WD40 fixed it for a few hundred miles at a time until I got some grease on them. My sprockets look fine so I'm guessing my chain is ok for now. I didn't realize fork and hydraulic oil needed to be changed regularly. I figured that kind of stuff would last at least 50,000 miles.
____________
Concourse14- Corbin Seat, Candy Apple Red Paint, Area P Slip-On
RIP+ZX-14- Brock's Gen3, Heli Risers, Corbin Bags, Corbin Seat and Oval Backrest (Burgandy Snakeskin and black alligator), Muzzys Frame Sliders, flies out, 18t front sprocket, PC3, Puig Double Bubble, Pirelli Diablo Strada's
KX450F - kickstand
>>> MySpace --CLICK-- <<<
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HiMile14
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posted May 21, 2007 01:36 PM
 Edited By: HiMile14 on 21 May 2007 15:35
Phytrax,
Yes fork oil I promise will bring back the sharpness in the handling department. If I find it I'll bring it to the front of the ZX-14 page. If I can't bring it to the top of the page, look up an earlier post. I'm pretty sure fork oil will be in the title. I have a quick walk through on the difficultly, along with pictures.
Hope this helps.
Rob
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Xtremespeed
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posted May 21, 2007 03:44 PM
I am missing something. What is everyone greasing? The wheel bearings are sealed.
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HiMile14
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posted May 21, 2007 05:05 PM
When I pull the front wheel off I will force some grease into the gap (granted small gaps) around the bearing and on the axial as well. To be fair I have not greased the ZX only the VFR but there is a small gap between the bearing and seal with the wheel off axial out.
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dubious
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posted May 21, 2007 05:20 PM
Edited By: dubious on 21 May 2007 18:23
quote:
I am missing something. What is everyone greasing? The wheel bearings are sealed.
yup, all are sealed but the sproket hub brg.......
so i don't know how they imagine they're greasing them.
I should keep my opinion to myself and do my own thing.
LOL.... 
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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dubious
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posted May 21, 2007 05:23 PM
Edited By: dubious on 21 May 2007 18:25
the only proper way to grease bearing is with a bearing grease compressor, it fills ALL voids between ALL bearings...
you guys do what you want,
my bearings will not be taking me out at 300 km/hr...
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Xtremespeed
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posted May 21, 2007 06:33 PM
Thanks for clarifying. I thought I was missing something.
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HiMile14
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posted May 22, 2007 12:43 AM
With the ZX at 24.8K it's just a matter of time before I have to replace the fork oil. I will take a couple of picks of what I've been greasing and confirm if it is possible to grease the ZX as I have in the past on the Honda. Bearings are a sealed unit, but the exposed areas that can be seen (when the axial is removed) I Like to block dirt and dust with grease.
D, I prefer if no one here holds back, we will never learn anything if we keep our opinions to ourself, plus I need people to keep me straight when I go off on tangents. If I'm doing something that's worthless hey I want to know.
Rob
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dubious
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posted May 22, 2007 10:09 AM
Rob,
I would not say worthless.
Its a good effort. just not totally correct.
I hate being the critic cause alot of ppl take offense.
In any event, the brgs are sealed, your lubing the axle, innercollar, and outer spacers is all.
Thats a good thing, keep the water out and prevent galling/ corrosion.
I have seen axles gall aginst the inner brg race, and damage occurs to the bearing, as it is not desingned to be side loaded, when the axle is pounded out.
the important thing to remember is to inspect and lube the lip of the seals after you clean them, dry seals will burn in no time, then they will not keep the water and crud out.
The bearings are sealed though, so they are non servicable replacement items.
Only the bearing in the rear sproket hub is open bearing and can be greased, the front and rear wheel hub bearings are sealed.
Open Bearings such as the steering races, or automotive wheel brgs should be greased with a bearing grease tool, its a mechanism which compresses the grease into every space between the balls and races, doing them by hand is very inneffective, as some of the voids are not filled, and can allow water in , then corrosion begins, and then failure.
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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HiMile14
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posted May 22, 2007 02:15 PM
D,
One final question, seems the race (I think that's what it's called) outside the bearing seems to have been installed a bit cock-eyed. Does not seem to affect the performance but should I be worried?
Thanks Rob
VFR 91,364 miles
ZX-14 24,824 miles
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dubious
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posted May 22, 2007 09:18 PM
I am not sure what part you are referring to.
The bearings need to be seated fully into the hub, the inner collar in the center of the hub, between the bearing races on each side of the wheel should fit snug, not too tight because the inner races( the axle rides inside of) will side load the balls, and wear them out, or damage the brg assembly.
Bearings should never be installed by pressing the inner race, pressure should allways be applied to the outer race, when pressing them into the hub, this way the bearings are not side loaded. Side loading can distort, or damage the bearing cage, as well as distort or push the bearing seal out, as immediate results, and the micro indents in the races from the balls create hot spots at speed, and premature failure.
The outer seals should also be seated as square as possible, otherwise lateral axial wear will prematurely wear out the seal, same as the brgs. The outer seals kawi uses, the ones the axle spacers ride in, are added insurance, as the bearings are already sealed, not critical, but beneficial and increase bearing longevity, and prevent axle assembly corrosion.
The critical seal is the one on the sproket hub, as this bearing assembly is not sealed.
Many people will think I am too anal about this topic, but then they may wonder why their bearings wear out prematurley, and on my dirt bikes i was never as critical as i am with the zx14,
The velocities encountered on the zx14 are a lot more critical...... I ride alot of high speed miles.
Also....
Pressure washers aimed at bearing and axle assemblies are one of the worst things you can do, the high pressure water gets in there and breaks down the grease, or dispalces it, even on sealed bearings, so be careful wher you aim the washer nozzle guys!
keep it off your chains too!
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
|
NinjaNick
Needs a job
'08 ZX14 (Blue)
Posts: 4558
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posted May 22, 2007 09:26 PM
Service manual will tell you how to do it.
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dubious
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posted May 22, 2007 09:57 PM
quote:
Service manual will tell you how to do it.
LOL... who woulda figured...
thanks for the wonderful insight
some don't have the service manual...
fortunatley i do...
It tells you to buy kawi's brg driver, and use it.
Not how to improvise.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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HiMile14
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posted May 23, 2007 12:34 AM
The outer seals should also be seated as square as possible, otherwise lateral axial wear will prematurely wear out the seal, same as the brgs. The outer seals kawi uses, the ones the axle spacers ride in, are added insurance, as the bearings are already sealed, not critical, but beneficial and increase bearing longevity, and prevent axle assembly corrosion.
D, I'm thinking the outer seal is what is not as square as it should be. Were talking maybe 1/8 th of an inch. I suspect it will do the job and if I'm not mistaken the shop says that they are destroyed when removed. I don't feel as if it would pose a problem at least short term but suspect doing anything (ie straightening them might cause more damage than just living with it). Thanks for the information, you've done an excellent job explaining to this novice.
Rob
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