dbeadling
Zone Head
Posts: 699
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posted December 25, 2006 07:53 PM
those pesty flies again
  
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Smiffy
Parking Attendant
Posts: 26
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posted December 25, 2006 11:55 PM
I'm loathe to do this mod as I personally prefer the feel of the fuel injection and it's tractability around town as it is.
For a swift overtake I just get up behind whatever I want to pass, snick it down a couple to get myself in the rev band and wind it on.
I'm just concerned about things like riding in the wet (which I try to avoid at the best of times) or doing a track day when you are on the pace and cane it out of a corner. I've seen the results of guys high siding their brand new gsxr's and blades by getting on the gas too early. It's not something I fancy doing on my bike. Also, do you not find that the power coming in that low down now spoils the ride for the pillion? As it is, I find my wife has at least a little warning to "hang on" because at the moment she can tell from what I am doing that I am setting myself up for a swift pass.....just my opinion of course.
Rob
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phytrax
Zone Head
Posts: 526
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posted December 26, 2006 05:03 AM
**ATTENTION SKEPTICS**
You will not at any point regret pulling your flies!!
I've driven mine in the rain while taking 360 on-ramps and THERE ARE NO DRIVEABILITY ISSUES WITHOUT FLIES. Accelerating out of curves is very smooth and predictable. You can't just whack the throttle like you would with the flies, but if you know how to ride at all it's quite easy to get however much power you want. The first time you take off from a red light you will never have another doubt. Instead of revving the heck out of the engine to 8,000 rpm or more to get a quick jump off the line, you just rev up to about 3,000 and launch as hard as you care too. My wife was afraid of me pulling the flies and giving her whiplash, but she has not complained ONCE about the torquiness with the flies out.
If you have a little respect for your "NEW" bike once you take the flies out, you'll simply love it. I rarely down shift on the interstate anymore, or just down shift to 5th instead of 4th, unless I feel like ripping past 150. I'm running an 18t sprocket now, but I ran it with stock sprocket, exhaust and PC3 with no flies for a week or so also, and it ran great, same overall opinion.
I also have a GSX-R1000 that is bone stock other than remapped engine and front sprocket lowered 2t and it is MUCH harder to drive than my 14 with flies out, PC3, and Brock's Gen3. The wife won't even ride the 1000 after experiencing a 15 min ride with the excessively snappy torque. I've almost had the 1000 throw me off the back a few times but have never come close to doing so with my 14 and no flies, even though the 14 has a more upright seating position.
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Concourse14- Corbin Seat, Candy Apple Red Paint, Area P Slip-On
RIP+ZX-14- Brock's Gen3, Heli Risers, Corbin Bags, Corbin Seat and Oval Backrest (Burgandy Snakeskin and black alligator), Muzzys Frame Sliders, flies out, 18t front sprocket, PC3, Puig Double Bubble, Pirelli Diablo Strada's
KX450F - kickstand
>>> MySpace --CLICK-- <<<
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phytrax
Zone Head
Posts: 526
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posted December 26, 2006 05:08 AM
quote:
quote:
Several have hypothesized that you might burn a hole in your piston, but others have responded with a reality check that the engine doesn't spend enough time under load at the lean RPM's involved to do any damage.
I strongly disagree. I spend a LOT of time in the low RPM range when I'm cruising on the highways, whether it's the interstate or 2-lane highways. Anytime I'm not looking for a handful of power and speed I run in 5th or 6th and that tends to put me undre 4,000 rpm.
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Concourse14- Corbin Seat, Candy Apple Red Paint, Area P Slip-On
RIP+ZX-14- Brock's Gen3, Heli Risers, Corbin Bags, Corbin Seat and Oval Backrest (Burgandy Snakeskin and black alligator), Muzzys Frame Sliders, flies out, 18t front sprocket, PC3, Puig Double Bubble, Pirelli Diablo Strada's
KX450F - kickstand
>>> MySpace --CLICK-- <<<
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02zx12rbob
Expert Class
Posts: 496
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posted December 26, 2006 07:41 AM
Remove flies...enjoy. 
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted December 26, 2006 09:10 AM
quote:
I'm loathe to do this mod as I personally prefer the feel of the fuel injection and it's tractability around town as it is.
For a swift overtake I just get up behind whatever I want to pass, snick it down a couple to get myself in the rev band and wind it on.
I'm just concerned about things like riding in the wet (which I try to avoid at the best of times) or doing a track day when you are on the pace and cane it out of a corner. I've seen the results of guys high siding their brand new gsxr's and blades by getting on the gas too early. It's not something I fancy doing on my bike. Also, do you not find that the power coming in that low down now spoils the ride for the pillion? As it is, I find my wife has at least a little warning to "hang on" because at the moment she can tell from what I am doing that I am setting myself up for a swift pass.....just my opinion of course.
Rob
It's all in the wrist................
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted December 26, 2006 10:01 AM
Here is what i have to say on the flys out thingy.........Just pull the damn things out, it's not like a 100 shot of N2O....It a nice bump in low end power with no draw backs.........If you have owned a Busa or even a Gixxer or other fast bikes you can handle the little extra bump in power without any problems...Now if all you have ever owned is a 250cc bike and jumped right to a zx14 leave the damn things in till you get some riding skills ....
Some of you guys act like pullin the flys is like adding a friggin turbo and you will not be able to handle the power ...Damn the stock zx14 with flys in place will get you killed real fast !!! Another 10 hp and 20 foot pounds of torq at 3500 rpms is not going to make it into some kind of beast that you can't ride...... Smokin..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted December 26, 2006 10:15 AM
 Edited By: fastestbusaaround on 26 Dec 2006 10:17
Phytrax...did you know that you can also remove the flies on 05+ Gixxers too? It's not as dramatic a difference, but there is a difference. I did my buddy's 05...was very easy to do as well.
Anyone who thinks they're gonna kill themselves by removing the flies is just dead wrong, unless they can't ride a bike...just takes a lot of respect for the bike as opposed to only a little. As Lee says..."it's all in the wrist"
Anyone who has ever owned a Busa knows exactly what a "flyless" ZX14 is all about...not much difference. Fact is, that bikes like the FJR have even more power down low...and we don't see the FJR riders bitching about that. The way I see it, the 14 is a bike that shouldn't be ridden by those who are afraid to remove the flies. If you want a docile machine, buy a cruiser. The ZX14 is the fastest 2-wheel production machine on the planet...so if you wanted a lawnmower, you should have gone to sears, not to Kawasaki. The bike runs like shit with the flies in there...it runs just like it should with them removed. If you didn't want the power that comes with the displacement, why did you buy this bike? Was it for comfort? I don't think so...there are many other bikes way more comfortable than a ZX14...so why did you buy this bike?
EDIT: Lee -- no one could have said that better than you just did...stock will get you killed faster, yes indeed.
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FYYFF!!!
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zerMATT
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted December 26, 2006 10:36 AM
Ok, ok, ok, ok! 
I'm one of those guys who's still on the fence regarding the flies. I have been dissapointed from day-1 with the low-end power of the 14, having come from a ZZ-R1200 that had *plenty* of power down low. I just want to make sure that I don't go out and do something stupid on the first day with no flies... our roads down here can get very greasy, add some cold rubber (it's averaging in the 40's and 50's here lately), and maybe a little moisture in the shade of a tree, and all of a sudden those flies just might be a big help. I know I can control the throttle just fine, I just have to convince myself that I'm ready to "unleash the beast".
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14 | Black D&D Slip-ons | Speedo Healer | V1 | zumo 550 | Heli-Risers | PhantomX
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blackbullet76
Pro
Posts: 1134
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posted December 26, 2006 11:07 AM
quote:
Another 10 hp and 20 foot pounds of torq at 3500 rpms is not going to make it into some kind of beast that you can't ride
Is that all it gives? I mean that's a noticable jump, but I thought it gave more than that. Why even put them in there if that's all it restricts?
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zerMATT
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted December 26, 2006 11:48 AM
quote:
Is that all it gives? I mean that's a noticable jump, but I thought it gave more than that. Why even put them in there if that's all it restricts?
I don't think that Kawi installed the secondary flies to restrict power specifically, I think they did it to avoid the typical FI jumpiness or sensativity (to your wrist) that so many other FI bikes suffer from. Luckily, they only ended up neutering the 14's power by 10-20 ft-lbs in the process, and even then it's only in the low rpm's below 5,000 or so.
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14 | Black D&D Slip-ons | Speedo Healer | V1 | zumo 550 | Heli-Risers | PhantomX
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blackbullet76
Pro
Posts: 1134
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posted December 26, 2006 11:57 AM
Ok, what about the different fuel maps for the first 4 gears? I read that our bikes are really detuned until you get to 5th gear, then it's full power. 1st being the most restricted and a little added as you go up in gears. Did I read wrong?
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BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
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posted December 26, 2006 12:02 PM
I think it is more like 16hp and 29 ft/lbs at 3500 according to brock not sure I wll glance back at the diary later
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zerMATT
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted December 26, 2006 12:46 PM
quote:
Ok, what about the different fuel maps for the first 4 gears? I read that our bikes are really detuned until you get to 5th gear, then it's full power. 1st being the most restricted and a little added as you go up in gears. Did I read wrong?
That sounds right, but if you trick your bike into thinking that you are in 5th gear all the time, you'll lose use of the gear indicator gauge. I believe that's how Ivan's TRE works... it just fools the computer into thinking you're in 5th all the time via a little resistor/capacitor or something. A few people here are using that and can confirm...
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14 | Black D&D Slip-ons | Speedo Healer | V1 | zumo 550 | Heli-Risers | PhantomX
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12r1
Expert Class
Posts: 390
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posted December 26, 2006 02:10 PM
quote:
quote:
Another 10 hp and 20 foot pounds of torq at 3500 rpms is not going to make it into some kind of beast that you can't ride
Is that all it gives? I mean that's a noticable jump, but I thought it gave more than that. Why even put them in there if that's all it restricts?
20 torque is a huge difference. It's got +/- 110 torque stock, so your talkin' 25% (!!!) more torque down low!
Hell, 600's are in the 40's for torque....
I'm watchin' a red 14 at the dealer, it ain't movin..........he he he
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted December 26, 2006 08:57 PM
more like 25-28 lbs TQ...and the difference is astonishing...not the same bike. There isn't one mod that yields anything close to that kind of power, except T/C or NOS. CAMS won't even make up that power gain down low...
"Another 10 hp and 20 foot pounds of torq at 3500 rpms is not going to make it into some kind of beast that you can't ride"...true dat, but it make it into a BEAST 4 SURE...and it's always ride-able.
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FYYFF!!!
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dcm 21
Novice Class
Posts: 39
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posted December 26, 2006 09:56 PM
..Take 'em out..they were never meant to be..buy a pc3 and turn the low and mid range up manually to full gas and enjoy while you wonder why you don't just pipe it as well..stock throttle sucks...flies out is free fix then add gas.....hello and good bye..a whole new bike. 18000 k coming up and I'm still in the honeymoon stage..
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Smiffy
Parking Attendant
Posts: 26
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posted December 26, 2006 10:40 PM
Guess I'm going to have to do it then.........lol!!
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blackbullet76
Pro
Posts: 1134
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posted December 27, 2006 02:54 AM
Hell, me too! Is there a walk-through on here on how to do it?
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted December 27, 2006 09:38 AM
There are a number of topics with pictures of the plates...I remember something about a full step by step and thought it was here, but I could be wrong. If you don't see it here, there may be a step by step on ZX14ninja.com, where it's still an active topic daily 
In any case, it's quite easy...but do a search here and you'll probably find what you need. Once you have that info, it's only about 45-60 minutes or so from start to finish. Make sure you have a good, long Phillips screwdriver (#2 I think) and a magnetic screw pickup. It's easy if you know how to use a screwdriver...not rocket science. Most people who've done it here, did it themselves. Don't use a medium or short driver, because you'll end up stripping the screws on the outside intakes that hold the flies to the servo motor shaft and then you'll be really pissed. Once you remove the screws, make sure to clean out any filings or threadlocker so it doesn't get sucked into the intake. If you drop a screw, it will land on the primary throttle plates at the worst case, unless they are open...so make sure not to touch the throttle during this procedure. You don't need to heat the screws...just need a long, solid screwdriver and good, steady pressure to remove them. Good luck...there are plenty here who will help if you run into problems. 
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FYYFF!!!
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Mano 2
Expert Class
Posts: 360
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posted December 27, 2006 03:00 PM
I don't know, 5 minutes w/good screwdriver, to double hp/torque up to 6k, run smoother, and get better mileage, is alot of work. And off idle no clutch wheelies.
Maybe not worth it.
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INTIMIDA2OR
Needs a life
RED rider!
Posts: 13081
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posted December 27, 2006 03:39 PM
quote:
I don't know, 5 minutes w/good screwdriver, to double hp/torque up to 6k, run smoother, and get better mileage, is alot of work. And off idle no clutch wheelies.
Maybe not worth it.
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted December 27, 2006 09:12 PM
ROFLMAO
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FYYFF!!!
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted December 27, 2006 09:20 PM
i don't doubt the positive performance with the flies out , but how is it going to help me keep the front end down if i'm having wheelie problems now
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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INTIMIDA2OR
Needs a life
RED rider!
Posts: 13081
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posted December 27, 2006 09:41 PM
quote:
i don't doubt the positive performance with the flies out , but how is it going to help me keep the front end down if i'm having wheelie problems now
Perhaps because *You'll* have complete throttle control vs. servo actuated flies dropping power suddenly? .....
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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