posted December 01, 2006 06:07 PM
A ZX14 Story of THINGS that can go wrong! A good Friend of mine has a ZRX1200. We put ZX11 Cams in and the Bike ran great but when you are tipping the scales at 300 you need a lot of Power! He told me he wanted to get a ZX14 and I first told him that if he just had to have a ZX14 and wanted to make all of the power the factory had removed, that the only place he should get a Pipe and Mapping from would be Brock specially since he was planning on removing the Front Throttle Plates.
I told him that "Yes on the _*Surface*_ it "Looks" like his equipment cost more but in the end you are getting a LOT More than you can ever Pay for". I tried to explain to him that he was getting much more than a PIPE but Years of experience and tuning that was given directly to him and any problems are addressed by the Man himself! I tried to explain to him that Brock had already Mapped to perfection his pipe and the ZX14 AND with the front Butterflies already removed. My Friend said that he wanted to go with Muzzy and I stepped back and let him have at it! He first got a Muzzy exhaust and then the NOS / Shift system.
He took it to a place where they "Speak Muzzy" and had everything installed. He got his first call saying that everything was done. He took the Bike out and had serious problems getting the Bike in Neutral and to shift correctly. After Several Calls to Muzzy they installed a resister in line and the bike shifted OK. Then they decided to tune the Bike on the Dyno and spent all day doing it and called him to tell him that the bike was ready.
He came in and started the Bike up and all he saw was white smoke coming out of the pipe. They looked in the Airbox and saw a LOT of oil. They felt that they had blown up the engine and they would look into it. They took the engine out of the bike and replaced the Rings and then ran into other problems when they started it up and heard engine noises. I spoke to the guy who said that "Kawasaki had mis-marked the cams and the valves had hit the pistons when the rpm was raised. I called Brock who he said he knew and Brock explained how to install the cams and told the guy what to do. After a leak down and compression test the bike seemed to have survived and with the help of Brock made 4 HP "MORE" than before this all started.
It has now been over 3 weeks (Read all of the good riding weather is gone) and after MANY Calls to Brock and Brock back to them the Bike is now running good again!
What is wrong with this picture?? If he had just bought the Brock *"System"* like we talked about to begin with, he would have been TOTALLY Mapped with for the Butterflies "out" and *"NONE of this would have ever happened"!* His first statement to me after he got his Bike back is
"I am Selling ALL of this Muzzy -Stuff - and I am going to get everything Brock has for my bike! Here is a man that owed me less than nothing, who spent Hours of his time on the phone to get my bike right and I am not even a Customer! Imagine what he would have done IF I had been one of his customers to begin with??
I forgot to mention that I had also told him to take the bike Originally to Kevin Cadby in Jacksonville over 100 miles away but he got impatient and went to place locally that has a good reputation but are not a Kawasaki Dealer and went through this Hell0. There is Just no way he nor I can thank Brock for the HOURS he spent to get this guys bike right. He is riding the bike to Jacksonville and everywhere else this weekend to get some miles on it before he takes it to Kevin Cadby to check over again. His pipe is for sale on this board with no more than 1000 miles on it in Mint condition and cheap $450.00
Last, people take your time when making decisions on what you are going to buy and how you are going to use it and where you are going to take it. He was as close to Murder as I have seen a human and NO one should ever have to go through this ever!!
posted December 01, 2006 06:31 PM
So when u gonna get a 14 vincent? U should try 1. I had a 12 b4 this as you know, and had clutch issues from day 1. But i loved the rest of the bike. But these 14s are great no problems so far. By the way i love brocks parts also, im already going faster on engine with the 14 than i did on my nos 12. Same mods both bikes.
posted December 01, 2006 06:58 PM
Sorry that that happened to him but that is why I went all Brocked out from the get go. I've had several personal e-mail conversations and some phone conversations with Brock and the products are working great. You can't go wrong with it.
____________
Black '06 ZX-14
posted December 01, 2006 07:07 PM
Vincent is not going to get a zx14, it's clear that he feels Kawi missed the mark on the zx14...It's really to bad that he will not get one because he would be much faster than he is now...
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
quote:Sorry that that happened to him but that is why I went all Brocked out from the get go. I've had several personal e-mail conversations and some phone conversations with Brock and the products are working great. You can't go wrong with it.
+1
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
posted December 01, 2006 07:10 PM
Vincent come on over to the Dark Side.... ____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
posted December 01, 2006 07:23 PM
Vincent, How is this my fault. You are really in left field on this one. Every time I read one of your posts putting us down I cant help but wonder what I did to upset you in the 25 years that I have known you.
quote:Vincent, How is this my fault. You are really in left field on this one. Every time I read one of your posts putting us down I cant help but wonder what I did to upset you in the 25 years that I have known you.
Vincent, please answer Rob's question directly to the point. You seem to be skirting the real issue.
1. In the other thread, you argued that the "high" oil level was the cause of the issue.
2. Brock said that "inexperienced dyno operator created a situation...."
3. Now you say it's Muzzy's fault. The pipe? The nittous kit?
I don't even know what "it" is. Oil in the air box that caused smoke that fooled everyone when there really was no issue???
I'm still trying to determine what to avoid...........................
____________
You only need two tools: WD-40 and Duct Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the duct tape.
posted December 01, 2006 08:40 PM
I agree Vincent. It is not clear as to what Rob's part is here.I have both met him and used his products in the past and have had no issue with him or his companys products.
Rob is a stand up guy with a reason to be concerned. His products carry his name and i am sure there is a lot of pride in that. Can anyone else say that here?
Did the pipe or NOS kit malfunction? or was it installed wrong? or was it the operator of the dyno?
____________
The banks are failing..
The banks are failing...
Invest in Ammo
posted December 01, 2006 08:42 PM
This is certainly a strange post.How is Muzzy somewhat responsible?That the read I get off of this.Vince you shouldn't have dragged Muzzy into this,not their fault in my opinion.
posted December 01, 2006 10:31 PM
Vincent is pretty much taking any opportunity that is available to him to talk down, de-bunk or otherwise talk bad about the ZX-14. Not real kewl in my opinion. As far as the problems with the Muzzy set up sounds like set-up problems to me and not a equipment problem. A number of people have the Muzzy exhaust on the ZX-14 and have had NOTHING like the problems your friend has.
It seems to me Vince that lately you have an agenda against anything you don't like.
Lucky I would avoid reading Vincent's posts as they seem to be negative anymore when it comes to the ZX-14
posted December 02, 2006 03:06 AM
Edited By: VincentHill on 2 Dec 2006 04:11
Rob, It is not an easy answer to give but I will try. First, I have nothing but respect for you and have NEVER Had ANY DIrect issues with you and think you are a great person Personally.
First, I do not know if I would call it a "Fault" but the High Pressure NOS Shifter as far as I can tell was installed correctly but because of some "Feed Back" through the electrical system on "Some" 14's it seems that the bike will not shift correctly. They called you guys and you went to work on it and came up with a Fix for it and it now works correctly. Nothing done WRONG, Just Something that was not completely worked out (Yes I know it is a New Bike and a New Product and you guys went to work IMMEDIATELY to get it corrected but it still caused several days of delay to get it to work).
Second, Again not something I would call a "Fault" but when he bought the Exhaust system, he had every intention of removing the Outter Throttle Plates which I knew. As Far as I know, Brock spent a lot of time to work out the mapping with these plates in and out and the Muzzy system only has maps for the Plates "IN". (Again, I know it is a New Bike and New Product and you have not worked out every possible combination and mapped for it but if the Muzzy pipe had the mapping for the Butterflies out on the 14, a LOT of Heart Ache would not have happened)
SO it is more like "Omission" than Commission. That is why I would not call ANY of this the Fault of Rob Muzzy, but more like him being ahead of the profile for the Muzzy parts and within the profile of the Brock parts. That is why I carefully stated at the end of my post [quote
Last, people take your time when making decisions on what you are going to buy and how you are going to use it and where you are going to take it.
Now to Mr Tony, You are correct in the fact that I do not like the ZX14. Smoking ZX14 you hit the nail on the Head exactly! Osti, You also hit the Nail squarely on the head! Brooklyn ZX12, like I am asking Lucky 14 to "Show me the MONEY"!! Please use quotes from my statement above to show me where I "Dragged" his name through the MUD? Are you saying that I Lied about the Shifter problem that Muzzy came up with a fix for? Are you saying that the mapping supplied by Muzzy was correct for the Throttle plates removed? None of you would have said anything In "this" direction if Rob Muzzy had not posted! I have said and will say that no where have I spoken against Muzzy! Is everyone so short sighted that you are now not allowed to speak good about anyone and not have it taken as BAD against someone else?? SO now if I like my ZX12R and do not like the ZX14 I have to HATE the ZX14 and the people that ride it? I HAVE Spoken about what my "friend" (Who ownes a ZX14) just went through and about the help he got from someone he has never met and does not know "Brock Davidson"
Lucky 14 please show "ME" Anywhere where I said that this was Rob Muzzy's or Muzzy fault or blamed him directly for this other than the NOS Shifter problem? Now since the NOS / Shifter had a problem and it was installed correclty, and Muzzy had to come up with a "FIX" for this, how can this part of these problems "NOT" be placed at Muzzy door step? Unfortunately this was just another bump in the road for this ordeal which by itself would not have been a BIG DEAL but you cannot ride a bike that you cannot take out of neutral manually or override manually to shift! Please use quotes from above and get right back to me! Yes, the High Oil level caused the oil in the airbox from the long and stressful time on the dyno. SO please tell me how saying that if he had used the Brock System that was fully mapped and would not have been on the Dyno all day long is saying that MUZZY made something that was either defective or his fault? What I did and I am saying is that if he had taken my advice which he called and asked me for Over and Over again spending HOURS on the Phone, that none of this would have happened! He knew that Kevin Cadby had installed the Muzzy Nos / Shifter and was an excellent Dyno operator and speaks Kawasaki. SO yes it was the Owner's fault for taking it where he took it and having too much oil in the engine, the Dyno Operators fault for what they did on the Dyno and the shops fault for not getting more advice before they tore into the engine. Again I say that NONE of this would have happened if he had taken my advice because none of this would have been becessary! I cannot say it more plain than that! SO take your time and get back to me as I have done for you. I do not know you but as you can see I use my real name and have owned, Ridden, Raced and Loved Kawasaki's since the late 60's. I have even raced against Rob Muzzy's guy Eddie Lawson and finished 3rd behind him in my heat race. Muzzy has allowed me to go through their trash bin to get some of their throw away parts that allowed me to race at Daytona! SO when I say that I have nothing but respect for Rob Muzzy, this is not blowing smoke. See for yourself
yes, that is me in the lower right of the top picture at the start of the Road Atlanta race so I am not being lapped I take everything very seriously so if you question me and mis-quote me be prepared to bring your lunch!
SOme People think that if you do not like something you are then Against it. I have ridden a ZX14 and the looks, Feel and "Refinement" are just not a turn on To Me. If Kawasaki was going to make Fugly, then they should have done it first! They had this bike on the Drawing board (as seen in the silver book that the original ZX12R owners received) but did not produce the bike until AFTER they saw how well the very Fugly Busa did in sales. SO in the case be first or be last and they were not first!
Mechanically I have always done ALL of my own work to my good and detriment. To those of you that do not do your own work and take your bikes to the "Shop" for all of your service work, mechanically there is no problem with a ZX14 that I know of.
BUT to people that do all of their own work, then maybe you can understand it when I say that I would not enjoy pulling the entire engine out of the bike and splitting the cases just to put in a Set of rings?? I would not enjoy buying a set of cases with the Cylinder if I gouged a cylinder wall or just plain wore out the cylinder from High Mileage and had to replace the entire set of cases?? Also if you are a perfection Freek like I am, you also want the engine case numbers and Frame case numbers to be the same ones the bike came with. SO for me, the "Ease of Maintance" is a HUGE issue with me.
I hope I have answered all of the question to everyone satisfaction and "ALL" I wanted to do here is let every ZX14 owner know that "A", Taking your ZX14 to a place that knows Nothing about ZX14 can be a Total Nightmare. Even if you are at a place that knows Kawasaki's, problems can happen! "B" do not be in a Rush to correct problems by Mechanical Surgery, get a Second Opinion!
quote:A good Friend of mine has a ZRX1200. We put ZX11 Cams in and the Bike ran great but...
Vincent, just curious: I thought ZX11 cams could only be fitted in ZRX1100 engine and that you needed ZZ-R1200 cams to install in a ZRX1200 engine. Could you confirm please? Thanks!
quote:A good Friend of mine has a ZRX1200. We put ZX11 Cams in and the Bike ran great but...
Vincent, just curious: I thought ZX11 cams could only be fitted in ZRX1100 engine and that you needed ZZ-R1200 cams to install in a ZRX1200 engine. Could you confirm please? Thanks!
Correct on the surface but you can make spacers that move the sprockets out (Somethimers desease I cannot remember the exact amount) I think about 4 MM and you can use the ZX11 Cams. In this case it was Actually the ZZR1200 cams that have the same profile of the ZX11 cams that I actually used in my ZRX1100
posted December 02, 2006 06:25 AM
The riding season is done for the winter Vince what do you think everyone is going to do now that we're unable to ride???
quote:The riding season is done for the winter Vince what do you think everyone is going to do now that we're unable to ride???
WOW Good Point!! maybe I should have called "you" for advice before I posted this. BTW, you do a Lot of your own work on your bike did you understand what I was getting at?
posted December 02, 2006 08:36 AM
I had a nice experience with the shop I took my bike to. We yanked the butterflies and retuned it,stretched it lowered it. The guy runs a 6 second bike and has for a long time. My bike was purchased with a muzzy pipe and power commander used and untuned.nIt had 1300 miles on it when I got it. Smitherscustoms of Olathe KS did mine. Mine was the first to yank the butterflies and he retuned it from the bottom up and the bike has rane exactly as expected. I knew from the websites about the 3500rpm backfire and yes mine still does it occaisonally. It's always about being choosey and not being cheap with anything this fast. Let those in the know do what they do best. If someone is trained to work a dyno from dyno jet results should follow
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeShEeglQ6E
posted December 02, 2006 09:21 AM
Vincent after reading 1000s of your posts about your zx12 and the money you have spent in repairs and mods you could have bought 3 spare zx14 motors off ebay and still had money left over to buy a zx14 ....Your worried about not having a matching number bike ??? lol it's not like anyone would buy the bike from you anyway and if they did i'm sure they would careless if it was matcting number bike ...It's not like it's a low mile matching number Hemi Cuda...It's just a 3500.00 dollar worn out zx12 .....Sorry if that sounds hard , i'm sure your zx12 means everything to you just as my 70 Roadrunner is to me....But other people don't feel about your bike as you do.....It's not like your bike is a cure for cancer, it's just a motorcycle..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
. SO for me, the "Ease of Maintance" is a HUGE issue with me, vincent thought to himself as he watched the rapidly accelerating zx-14 disappear over the horizon....
I!
fixed...
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posted December 01, 2006 06:07 PM
Edited By: 
I take everything very seriously so if you question me and mis-quote me be prepared to bring your lunch!
The people here just want to Abuse me 
Vince what do you think everyone is going to do now that we're unable to ride???
