Phytrax
Zone Head
Posts: 526
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posted November 11, 2006 08:05 AM
Changing Tires
I have an ATV jack that works great on my KLR650, but what do I need to lift up my ZX-14 to change the tires. I don't have a centerstand, I read somewhere you have to make some modifications to use a centerstand with Brock's Gen3. I've never changed a tubeless tire, or steel radial either. Is this something I can do with a regular tire tool or 2?
   
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lizard
Pro
Modulator
Posts: 1483
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posted November 11, 2006 08:50 AM
quote:
I have an ATV jack that works great on my KLR650, but what do I need to lift up my ZX-14 to change the tires. I don't have a centerstand, I read somewhere you have to make some modifications to use a centerstand with Brock's Gen3. I've never changed a tubeless tire, or steel radial either. Is this something I can do with a regular tire tool or 2?
You can do it yourself but why risk damage to the finish on your wheel. We put a new skin on my 10 and what a mess it made. I leave my tire installs to the pros. Just bring them the rim and they can have it done about 15 min.
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zerMATT
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted November 11, 2006 10:12 AM
I use my pit bull rear stand to lift the back, then I lift the front with a floor jack on the header collector. Once I pull the front tire, I lower the fork tubes down onto a pair of 2x4's to support the weight while I work on the tires.
To change the tires themselves, I split the cost with some friends a few years ago to buy a Coats rim-clamp manual tire changer (about $600). That machine makes the job a WHOLE bunch easier. We also bought a super-fine ball-bearing motorcycle wheel balancing jig (about $150). With a little practice, balancing only takes a few minutes. 4 of us bought that rig about 5 years ago and it's paid for itself many times over. Each of us goes through 3-4 sets of tires/year.
We used to change the tires by hand, but breaking the bead on those things can be a bitch, and it's MUCH easier to damage the rim using tire irons. Whatever you do, pick up some of those plastic clip-on rim protectors. They work well with tire irons or a rim-clamp setup... they really do help to save the finish on your rims.
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14 | Black D&D Slip-ons | Speedo Healer | V1 | zumo 550 | Heli-Risers | PhantomX
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MasterBlaster
Expert Class
Posts: 297
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posted November 11, 2006 10:28 AM
Sport bike rims are easy to damage with tire tools because of their lightweight construction. Not only the finish, but you can bend the rim. I take mine to a shop that has a good rim clamp tire machine that wont damage or scratch the wheel. This is an independent auto/tire shop. I balance them myself on a rig I made using inline skate wheels to support the axle. Between the bike wheel bearings and the skateboard wheel bearings, the tire rotates very easy and static balance is a snap. Total cost for both wheels is about 30 bux, and it is well worth it.....TB
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MasterBlaster
Expert Class
Posts: 297
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posted November 11, 2006 10:29 AM
Forgot to add I just put the bike on front and rear stands to R&R the wheels....TB
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Phytrax
Zone Head
Posts: 526
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posted November 11, 2006 01:24 PM
Front and rear stands looks like what I need. I found some dirt cheap ones for $49.99. They even come in fast red like my bike.
Do most shops change tires faster and cheaper if you bring in just the wheel? The owner of the shop by me is a crook. Seriously, he got arrested for price gouging after hurricane Katrina, but he was a crook way before that. Also, can most auto shops change and balance bike tires?
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Concourse14- Corbin Seat, Candy Apple Red Paint, Area P Slip-On
RIP+ZX-14- Brock's Gen3, Heli Risers, Corbin Bags, Corbin Seat and Oval Backrest (Burgandy Snakeskin and black alligator), Muzzys Frame Sliders, flies out, 18t front sprocket, PC3, Puig Double Bubble, Pirelli Diablo Strada's
KX450F - kickstand
>>> MySpace --CLICK-- <<<
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BlueLIGHTning
Expert Class
Posts: 227
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posted November 11, 2006 01:26 PM
I need to change my tires over the winter months as well. Does anyone have the torque specs for the axles etc?? I know I should go out and buy a manual.
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MasterBlaster
Expert Class
Posts: 297
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posted November 11, 2006 01:43 PM
quote:
Front and rear stands looks like what I need. I found some dirt cheap ones for $49.99. They even come in fast red like my bike.
Do most shops change tires faster and cheaper if you bring in just the wheel? The owner of the shop by me is a crook. Seriously, he got arrested for price gouging after hurricane Katrina, but he was a crook way before that. Also, can most auto shops change and balance bike tires?
The cheap stands may or may not be adequate, its a crap shoot with the cheapies.
You need to remove the wheels yourself and take them in. I also romove the brake rotors, rear sprocket and cush. It only takes a few minutes for the shop to mount the new tires, but most arent capable of balanceing the motorcycle stuff. I think standard rate is about 15 bux per wheel. Static balance them yourself, its easy, and they will be everybit as smooth as a machine balance. Ive been to 175+ on ones I have balanced. One other thing, the stands arent just for wheel removal, they are handy for other maintenance, and cleaning.......TB
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zerMATT
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted November 11, 2006 01:58 PM
 Edited By: zerMATT on 11 Nov 2006 14:03
M/C dealers around here charge $25 per wheel minimum, some charge upwards of $50, and some (the snobby euro stuff mainly) won't even touch wheels that aren't their brand. Sure, there are a few smaller motorcycle repair places, but they still charge $25 and you have a much larger chance of them damaging your wheel.
Combine that with the fact that most m/c dealers don't balance the wheels when they install (around here anyway), and the choice was easy for us to decide to buy a tire changer.
Find a few friends in your area and go in together on an inexpensive rim-clamp style tire changer. You won't be sorry if you go through tires on a fairly regular basis.
This is the changer we bought, a Coats 220:
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14 | Black D&D Slip-ons | Speedo Healer | V1 | zumo 550 | Heli-Risers | PhantomX
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INTIMIDA2OR
Needs a life
RED rider!
Posts: 13081
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posted November 12, 2006 04:10 PM
I have my belly pan thing that covers the lower part of the rear shock removed and this allows me the option of using a floor jack to lift the rear of the bike via the lower shock mount.
For the front i use the floor jack with 3/4 " 12" x 12" piece of ply wood betewwn the oil pan and the header collector .
For me It's just a few minutes to get the wheels off , then i spoon the old ones off and the new ones on and be done in an hour.
Didn't scratch or hurt my wheels this round !
New wheels are very easy to work a tire on and off , brand new smooth surfaces Rock! 
And if my wheels fail the static balance check then i just run 'em over to the cycle shop.
Geez sometimes i take for granted i'm my own M/C mechanic 
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted November 12, 2006 09:17 PM
I pay a couple of dollars at Velocity Cycles of Tampa. While there I watch DVD Motorcycle racing on the widescreens, listen to folks around the shop exagerating and telling riding lies, and its a good time. About the time it starts getting boring they complete the tire job and my bike is equipped with new Michelin Pilot Powers.
And just to think i could bust my own *ss putting tires on those wheels- c'mon man are you serious!? 
Here are my most recently purchased PP's!
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2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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INTIMIDA2OR
Needs a life
RED rider!
Posts: 13081
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posted November 12, 2006 10:13 PM
quote:
And just to think i could bust my own *ss putting tires on those wheels- c'mon man are you serious!?
Agreed it's not for the average grease monkey but i for one would go insane if i didn't do my own work intrusting another to do the work particularly something as easy as spooning tires for pete's sake lol!
I have 7 bikes 4 that are mine ,and 2 classic hotrod's to maintain and upgrade plus my lucky friends who benefit from my services too, so yes i've got to be serious about my stuff .
Now stuff like boring cylinders , frame straightening, bodywork and paint, that is where my skill and equipment end and will farm out for that kind of stuff.
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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Phytrax
Zone Head
Posts: 526
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posted November 13, 2006 01:51 AM
Edited By: Phytrax on 13 Nov 2006 01:52
So now I need a Pit Bull rear lift, spoons, spoon protectors, and a 12x12 piece of plywood. Sounds like a plan. Thanks for the tips. This can't be much harder than fighting with the tube on my KLR650, I hope.
I got some nice foam weightlifting mats I can put the wheel on while I'm breaking the bead. You can get them very cheap at Sam's if anyone is interested.
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Concourse14- Corbin Seat, Candy Apple Red Paint, Area P Slip-On
RIP+ZX-14- Brock's Gen3, Heli Risers, Corbin Bags, Corbin Seat and Oval Backrest (Burgandy Snakeskin and black alligator), Muzzys Frame Sliders, flies out, 18t front sprocket, PC3, Puig Double Bubble, Pirelli Diablo Strada's
KX450F - kickstand
>>> MySpace --CLICK-- <<<
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zerMATT
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted November 13, 2006 07:21 PM
I'd also suggest a c-clamp style rim breaker to help with that task (relatively inexpensive) and some good bead-lube. You can get by with really soapy water or even WD-40, but the real thing like the pro's use really makes the job a lot easier.
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14 | Black D&D Slip-ons | Speedo Healer | V1 | zumo 550 | Heli-Risers | PhantomX
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Bently
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2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
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posted November 13, 2006 07:24 PM
Just get a part time job at a local shop where you have access to the tire machine LOL.
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted November 13, 2006 07:57 PM
Edited By: INTIMIDA2OR on 13 Nov 2006 20:01
quote:
I'd also suggest a c-clamp style rim breaker to help with that task (relatively inexpensive) and some good bead-lube. You can get by with really soapy water or even WD-40, but the real thing like the pro's use really makes the job a lot easier.
Now be careful with petroleum based stuff on tires!
Tire mounting lube is not soapy water. It is a vegetable based water-soluble oil mixed with water. Never is it a good idea to put any petroleum-based products on a tire. This includes ATF & even Armor All. Many soapy water mixtures are detergent based as opposed to soap based. Detergent is a petroleum product too. Petroleum products attack & break down the rubber in a tire.
You can go to any tire store & purchase a gallon container of Tire Mounting Lube for around $15 a gallon if you are going to use any thing on a tire to mount it.
Unless you have my luck where 9 times out of 10 the tires go off and on without a hitch
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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lietoome
Needs a job
Posts: 2033
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posted November 14, 2006 06:21 AM
save one of your rear tires, they come in handy when working on the sprockets, setting your rim down, and other stuff.
The used front tire works well around rose bushes 
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Phytrax
Zone Head
Posts: 526
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posted November 14, 2006 03:14 PM
Used tires in the garden, lololololol, my wife's going to love this. Can't wait to get home to tell her.
I don't think Armor All has anything petroleum based in it, it's silicone based, which is ok as far as damage goes. You put it on your vinyl dashboard after all, which is very sensitive to petroleum products. The problem is with petroleum products AND armor all is they leave a slick residue and can cause the tire to slip on the rim. Most soaps should work fine really. They are not going to be agressive enough to actually damage the rubber, an when they dry out there is no slip. I used to work for an automotive paint company where solubility and solvent resistance were something we dealt with on a daily experience, so I do have some experience with this. I believe most soaps are vegatable oil based, also, not petroleum, though I'm not certain.
Soap, by the way, is an oil of some type with an alcohol group attached to it such that the alcohol end of the molecule is attracted to water and the oily end is attracted to dirt. That's how it disolves dirt, just in case anyone was wondering. A vegetable soap should be less aggressive on tires than a petroleum soap though.
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Concourse14- Corbin Seat, Candy Apple Red Paint, Area P Slip-On
RIP+ZX-14- Brock's Gen3, Heli Risers, Corbin Bags, Corbin Seat and Oval Backrest (Burgandy Snakeskin and black alligator), Muzzys Frame Sliders, flies out, 18t front sprocket, PC3, Puig Double Bubble, Pirelli Diablo Strada's
KX450F - kickstand
>>> MySpace --CLICK-- <<<
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blitzkrieg
Needs a job
Road kill = Free lunch.
Posts: 2044
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posted November 14, 2006 03:38 PM
As far as stands go don't even waste your time with the cheap shit. They aren't worth it.
For under $300 you can get (what is the best money can buy IMO) a Pit-Bull Rear Stand, Pit-Bull New-Front Stand and a pin for your bike,
Buy another bike with a different pin size and $10 will buy the new pin.
I've used cheaper stands before and they aren't worth the cost of shipping. Have your bike wobble or fall off one time and you'll be regretting trying to save $75. 
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"BTW....You need to get a girlfriend who's last name isn't .jpg"
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zerMATT
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted November 14, 2006 03:48 PM
Edited By: zerMATT on 14 Nov 2006 15:49
quote:
[Petroleum products attack & break down the rubber in a tire.
I'm sure that WD-40 would break down the rubber bead of a tire if you kept it wet for a month or so, then let the tire sit around for years to rot. On the other hand a quick spray for a little lube applied to a tire that is going to have it's tread worn out in about 6 months isn't going to hurt anything. I've done it several times in years past with absolutely NO ill effects. WD-40 simply doesn't have THAT much power that it's going to dissolve a modern tire.
quote:
You can go to any tire store & purchase a gallon container of Tire Mounting Lube for around $15 a gallon if you are going to use any thing on a tire to mount it.
Definitely the way to go - works much better than any other alternatives.
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14 | Black D&D Slip-ons | Speedo Healer | V1 | zumo 550 | Heli-Risers | PhantomX
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Phytrax
Zone Head
Posts: 526
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posted November 14, 2006 04:10 PM
Edited By: Phytrax on 14 Nov 2006 16:10
Again with WD40 I'd be worried about tire slip more than anything, but if it works for you, go for it. It's quite possible that it just soaks into the tire and is therefore not a problem.
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Concourse14- Corbin Seat, Candy Apple Red Paint, Area P Slip-On
RIP+ZX-14- Brock's Gen3, Heli Risers, Corbin Bags, Corbin Seat and Oval Backrest (Burgandy Snakeskin and black alligator), Muzzys Frame Sliders, flies out, 18t front sprocket, PC3, Puig Double Bubble, Pirelli Diablo Strada's
KX450F - kickstand
>>> MySpace --CLICK-- <<<
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted November 14, 2006 07:19 PM
wd40 sprayed on the bead of the tires for install 
You guys are killin me 
Just take the rims of the bike and bring it to your local shop to change the tires...The $40 cost is well worth changing tires yourself by hand, then bringing them to the shop anyway because you cant do it !!!
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted November 14, 2006 07:27 PM
quote:
wd40 sprayed on the bead of the tires for install
You guys are killin me
Just take the rims of the bike and bring it to your local shop to change the tires...The $40 cost is well worth changing tires yourself by hand, then bringing them to the shop anyway because you cant do it !!!
+1
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2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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zerMATT
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted November 14, 2006 07:29 PM
yeah... the super lubricant that WD-40 is... I'm sure there is a HUGE risk of spinning the rim inside of the tire. 
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14 | Black D&D Slip-ons | Speedo Healer | V1 | zumo 550 | Heli-Risers | PhantomX
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INTIMIDA2OR
Needs a life
RED rider!
Posts: 13081
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posted November 14, 2006 08:52 PM
quote:
yeah... the super lubricant that WD-40 is... I'm sure there is a HUGE risk of spinning the rim inside of the tire.
Actually the opposite , from what i've noticed WD-40 on the tire beads has the tendancy to "glue" the tire to the rim making it hard to move or break the bead after it dries.
Strange 
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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