Ojref
Expert Class
Posts: 336
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posted October 01, 2006 10:20 PM
 Edited By: Ojref on 1 Oct 2006 23:23
Rolled out with the 600s and 1K's today for the twisties...
And believe it or not, the ZX-14 was able to keep up!
If any of you are from Houston, we rode up from Spring into Montgomery, and did all the backroads around 1486, and popped out around Navasota. Quite a medley of tight sections with switchbacks, 90 degrees, hairpin and elevation change, and oh yes - Texas negative camber sweepers, because the State likes to dump you out of the turn if you go 1 MPH over the speed limit.
This is the MotoHouston website and the thread. Communication isn't the strong suite over there. 
http://www.motohouston.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18420
I rode the 14 near it's limits today and I'm happy to report that the chassis was able to hold it's own against the sportbikes with skilled riders. Stock pipe clearance in a lean is a huge issue, not to mention that this bike is best led into a corner via countersteering, with body lean assist at the most extreme of pitches. I wasn't able to drag knee pucks as it seemed that I was going to scrape the pipes first. I'm sure with a aftermarket pipe this will change. As far as tires go, the Michelin Pilot powers at 36psi I fitted a week ago had more than enough grip on both aspuhalt and concrete, tracked well and supported a quicker turn-in as opposed to the stock Battleaxes.
Had a lot of fun today, and the 14 astonished all of the riders there. I had a tough crowd on my hands at first, however as the day progressed it seemed that the 14 earned much respect. So, it would appear that outside of the straight line, the 14 is still just as fast.
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2006 Kawasaki ZX-14 Ninja, Red now with mo' Brock's in my lyfe
1991 Yamaha Vmax - Because I need a mule to carry the manhood
2002 Ford Lightning - Ford GT Aluminum block engined, 802HP 911TQ now WhippleCharged
  
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ninja14
Pro
Posts: 1136
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posted October 01, 2006 11:06 PM
It does good......peg and fairing down here...........damn.
Had a ZX10 crash yesterday....don't know if he was trying to hang with me or what..........
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Otis
Needs a job
Captain Kickstand
Posts: 3028
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posted October 02, 2006 07:58 AM
Too much pressure for the Pilot Powers, should be at 30-32 front and rear.
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ninja14
Pro
Posts: 1136
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posted October 02, 2006 08:41 AM
I've used from 32 to stock pressure 42 front and rear on the Bstones and no problems ever.
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GUNNER
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted October 02, 2006 09:14 AM
Edited By: GUNNER on 2 Oct 2006 10:15
quote:
Too much pressure for the Pilot Powers, should be at 30-32 front and rear.
I run 34/34 in my 014s but as the weather cools down I'm thinking that maybe I should run more.. What do you guys think?
OH! that's on my 10R and 12R both NOT a 14
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ninja14
Pro
Posts: 1136
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posted October 02, 2006 03:48 PM
I still find it hard to stray a lot from the book settings. They spent a pile of cash and time and they gotta something about it :-)
Sticking with about 40 myself..........014's
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stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted October 02, 2006 07:14 PM
quote:
I still find it hard to stray a lot from the book settings. They spent a pile of cash and time and they gotta something about it :-)
Sticking with about 40 myself..........014's
Oh they can't know anything, surely we know better right!?
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2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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blitzkrieg
Needs a job
Road kill = Free lunch.
Posts: 2044
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posted October 02, 2006 09:59 PM
Maybe rider skill (yours) had more to do with it than you are giving yourself credit for?
Let me explain.
A friend of mine that is heavily into photography and more experienced with high-end digital cameras took some shots at an AMA race at PPIR a few years back.
He burned a CD and we started looking at the shots at work the following Monday.
My first reaction was "Damn, thats a nice camera Steve".
He chuckled and said "Don't you think the photographer had anything to with it?".
We got a good laugh out of that one. 
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"BTW....You need to get a girlfriend who's last name isn't .jpg"
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ninja14
Pro
Posts: 1136
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posted October 02, 2006 10:42 PM
Canyons I can do, but NO exp drag racing I was barely able to stay beside a (looked stock) R1. I KNOW that the bike can smoke 'em, but I can't yet..........yet......
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blitzkrieg
Needs a job
Road kill = Free lunch.
Posts: 2044
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posted October 02, 2006 11:09 PM
Ninja14:
I'm going to let you in on a secret.
Ninety percent of the people that ride liter bikes can't hustle them through the curves and ninety five percent of them won't beat you in a straight line drag race on a 14.
I'd say the ratio is the same for hyperbikes (zx-12/14) from experience.
It's the 10 percenters you gotta worry about and to be honest, I know guys that could smoke the average Joe in the curves riding an SV-650 no matter what you are mounted on.
Them be the cold, hard facts.
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"BTW....You need to get a girlfriend who's last name isn't .jpg"
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted October 02, 2006 11:49 PM
That's true...my riding instructor scrapes the aluminum bags on his GS in the turns...
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FYYFF!!!
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HiMile14
Expert Class
Posts: 424
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posted October 03, 2006 03:48 AM
quote:
Ninja14:
I'm going to let you in on a secret.
Ninety percent of the people that ride liter bikes can't hustle them through the curves and ninety five percent of them won't beat you in a straight line drag race on a 14.
I'd say the ratio is the same for hyperbikes (zx-12/14) from experience.
It's the 10 percenters you gotta worry about and to be honest, I know guys that could smoke the average Joe in the curves riding an SV-650 no matter what you are mounted on.
Them be the cold, hard facts.
Great Post and oh so true. One of the best riders I know once told me that he would go out with guys on GSXR-750's and 1000's. He would pass them in the twistys then they would race by in the straights,then he would pass them again in the next curve. He told me only 2 guys ever put him away. What did he ride a GS500. He loved doing it too.
Today he has a FJR1300 and I've never see a person ride with so much confidence. Stoppies, Wheelies just about anything one can do on a bike he can do and very well.
What does he do for a living...Harley Cop....You just never know who's behind the glasses.
Rob
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ninja14
Pro
Posts: 1136
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posted October 03, 2006 03:20 PM
My thinking is that you practice within your own limits and ride GOOD...........if you ride GOOD a lot you will end up FAST and GOOD. The fast comes by itself as you learn control and confidence. My first bike purchase was the summer of 04..........then got a sportsbike that winter. After a year and a half I feel I do ok. To me it takes a lot of practice and a lot of turning to ride well - to have control. I have not practiced launching or any high speed stuff as I felt it was not a true skill needed for good and safe street riding. If you can do a mile long wheelie it don't mean shit to me unless you can beat me with that litre bike in the canyons on a big 14. I have gotten to where I can wheelie the bike up out of a corner - usually not on purpose - and that is the best kind of wheelie :-)
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k bryant
Needs a job
Sponsor
Posts: 2911
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posted October 03, 2006 05:01 PM
quote:
Ninja14:
I'm going to let you in on a secret.
Ninety percent of the people that ride liter bikes can't hustle them through the curves and ninety five percent of them won't beat you in a straight line drag race on a 14.
I'd say the ratio is the same for hyperbikes (zx-12/14) from experience.
It's the 10 percenters you gotta worry about and to be honest, I know guys that could smoke the average Joe in the curves riding an SV-650 no matter what you are mounted on.
Them be the cold, hard facts.
So true... I have a friend with a "well" set-up sportster that can hand 95% of the sportbike guys their butts on a tight road off of Cooks Corner. Really fun to watch.
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted October 04, 2006 05:35 PM
No doubt....
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FYYFF!!!
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nightmare
Pro
ACP Racing
Posts: 1797
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posted October 04, 2006 06:45 PM
Man I am glad to hear this. I know last week on the ride to Charleston, We hit a couple of back roads in beaufort and the bike got a little playful in certain areas with the battlemax 014. Thinking about the Michelin PP but maybe it was because i was really puching the girl. We had one 636 with us and he was handling the curves so I wanted to stay with him. he could not get away for nothing but at times the bike felt a litlle unstable. And i ripped a pair of jeans. OH YES! kind if hurt my knee though. I'll wear full leathers next time.
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2006 ZX14 Ninja "SWINE FLU"
60ft 1.23
8th Mile 5.16
ACP Racing
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zx12adam
Member
Posts: 878
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posted October 04, 2006 08:34 PM
quote:
Ninja14:
I'm going to let you in on a secret.
Ninety percent of the people that ride liter bikes can't hustle them through the curves and ninety five percent of them won't beat you in a straight line drag race on a 14.
I'd say the ratio is the same for hyperbikes (zx-12/14) from experience.
It's the 10 percenters you gotta worry about and to be honest, I know guys that could smoke the average Joe in the curves riding an SV-650 no matter what you are mounted on.
Them be the cold, hard facts.
Been preaching it for years.
Go to a trackday and take a look at the begginer group and you will see cherry street riders on brand new latest and greatest 600/750/1000 sportbikes, some with chicken strips.
Expert will have some old clapped-out Superhawk/F4i/FZ1 types that lay it in and burn-up the track. Humble pie for newbies on the new equiptment that bit off more than they could chew thinking a fast bike makes for a fast rider.
A Brit bike mag did a test with and avg level skill rider at the track, he rode a CBR125, CBR600, stock CBR1000RR, and a 200hp HM Plant CBR1000RR. If I remember correctly he went slowest on the 125, with the stock 600, stock 1000, and 200hp1000 were only about a second apart from each other in lap times. It's really up to the rider.
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CBR1000RR
Best Literbike: Performance Bikes, Superbike, BIKE, MCN, Road Racing World, and Motorcycle USA
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ninja14
Pro
Posts: 1136
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posted October 04, 2006 08:56 PM
I understand that getting a knee down may seem cool, but I have run the bike over far enough to eat away any signs of chickenstrips as well as hit the peg and fairing on the ground w/o a need to do more than move my ass on the seat a few inches. I could see it on my R1, but this big/wide bike just doesn't have that kind of clearance...........not flaming, but why do it if not KNEEDED?
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blitzkrieg
Needs a job
Road kill = Free lunch.
Posts: 2044
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posted October 04, 2006 09:37 PM
Let me give you my opinion FWIW:
I ride with three guys that are true kneedraggers.
Any one of the three can put a puck down on the street if you ask them. At > 60 mph not shopping center lot crap.
And every one of them will tell you it's very rare that happens under normal street conditions.
Don't focus on that. Get your lines right and don't worry about dragging a knee.
The rest comes naturally.
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"BTW....You need to get a girlfriend who's last name isn't .jpg"
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zx12adam
Member
Posts: 878
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posted October 04, 2006 10:18 PM
I know of several fast riders that don't get a knee on the deck; it's not required. Only reason I do it at the track is to use it as a guage so I know my pegs are about to drag beforehand. I've really slowed my pace to "well within my limits" riding on the street though, track can do that to people.
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CBR1000RR
Best Literbike: Performance Bikes, Superbike, BIKE, MCN, Road Racing World, and Motorcycle USA
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ninja14
Pro
Posts: 1136
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posted October 05, 2006 08:57 AM
On the track - yes........makes sense. It came about back when the bikes got to be so good and the riders better during races. They NEEDED to do it, but I feel that smoothness is crucial and jumping halfway off the bike on a sweper while streetriding is not smooth..........
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big al
Novice Class
Posts: 52
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posted October 05, 2006 10:57 AM
I agree no sense in dragging a knee on the street, but if your dragging parts hanging off will definetly get you around a corner faster on the street or track. And will possibly stop you from unloading your suspension and crashing if your dragging hard parts. With that being said we normally try to ride within THE PACE.
Read it, Learn it, Live it!
THE PACE
BY NICK IENATSCH
.... Racing involves speed, concentration and commitment; the results of a mistake are usually catastrophic because there's little room for error riding at 100 percent. Performance street riding is less intense and further from the absolute limit, but because circumstances are less controlled, mistakes and over aggressiveness can be equally catastrophic. Plenty of roadracers have sworn off street riding. "Too dangerous, too many variables and too easy to get carried away with too much speed," track specialists claim. Adrenaline-addled racers find themselves treating the street like the track, and not surprisingly, they get burned by the police, the laws of physics and the cold, harsh realities of an environment not groomed for ten-tenths riding.
.... But as many of us know, a swift ride down a favorite road may be the finest way to spend a few free hours with a bike we love. And these few hours are best enjoyed riding at The Pace.
.... A year after I joined Motorcyclist staff in 1984, Mitch Boehm was hired. Six months later, The Pace came into being, and we perfected it during the next few months of road testing and weekend fun rides. Now The Pace is part of my life - and a part of the Sunday morning riding group I frequent. The Pace is a street riding technique that not only keeps street riders alive, but thoroughly entertained as well.
THE PACE
.... The Pace focuses on bike control and de-emphasizes outright speed. Full-throttle acceleration and last minute braking aren't part of the program, effectively eliminating the two most common single-bike accident scenarios in sport riding. Cornering momentum is the name of the game, stressing strong, forceful inputs at the handlebar to place the bike correctly at the entrance of the turn and get it flicked in with little wasted time and distance. Since the throttle wasn't slammed open at the exit of the last corner, the next corner doesn't require much, if any, braking. It isn't uncommon to ride with our group and not see a brake light flash all morning.
.... If the brakes are required, the front lever gets squeezed smoothly, quickly and with a good deal of force to set entrance speed in minimum time. Running in on the brakes is tantamount to running off the road, a confession that you're pushing too hard and not getting your entrance speed set early enough because you stayed on the gas too long. Running The Pace decreases your reliance on the throttle and brakes, the two easiest controls to abuse, and hones your ability to judge cornering speed, which is the most thrilling aspect of performance street riding.
YOUR LANE IS YOUR LIMIT
.... Crossing the centerline at any time except during a passing maneuver is intolerable, another sign that you're pushing too hard to keep up. Even when you have a clean line of sight through a left-hand kink, stay to the right of the centerline. Staying on the right side of the centerline is much more challenging than simply straightening every slight corner, and when the whole group is committed to this intelligent practice, the temptation to cheat is eliminated through peer pressure and logic. Though street riding shouldn't be described in racing terms, you can think of your lane as the race track. Leaving your lane is tantamount to a crash.
.... Exact bike control has you using every inch of your lane if the circumstances permit it. In corners with a clear line of sight and no oncoming traffic, enter at the far outside of the corner, turn the bike relatively late in the corner to get a late apex at the far inside of your lane and accelerate out, just brushing the far outside of your lane as your bike stands up. Steer your bike forcefully but smoothly to minimize the transition time. Don't hammer it down because the chassis will bobble slightly as it settles, possibly carrying you off line. Since you haven't charged in on the brakes, you can get the throttle on early, before the apex, which balances and settles your bike for the drive out.
.... More often than not, circumstances do not permit the full use of your lane from yellow line to white line and back again. Blind corners, oncoming traffic and gravel on the road are a few criteria that dictate a more conservative approach, so leave yourself a three or four foot margin for error, especially at the left side of the lane where errant oncoming traffic could prove fatal. Simply narrow your entrance on a blind right-harder and move your apex into your lane three feet on blind left turns in order to stay free of unseen oncoming traffic hogging the centerline. Because you're running at The Pace and not flat out, your controlled entrances offer additional time to deal with unexpected gravel or other debris in your lane; the outside wheel track is usually the cleanest through a dirty corner since a car weights its outside tires most, scrubbing more dirt off the pavement in the process, so aim for that line.
A GOOD LEADER, WILLING FOLLOWERS
.... The street is not a racing environment, and it takes humility, self assurance and self control to keep it that way. The leader sets the pace and monitors his mirrors for signs of raggedness in the ranks that follow, such as tucking in on straights, crossing over the yellow line and hanging off the motorcycle in the corners, If the leader pulls away, he simply slows his straight way speed slightly but continues to enjoy the corners, thus closing the ranks but missing none of the fun. The small group of three or four riders I ride with is so harmonious that the pace is identical no matter who's leading. The lead shifts occasionally with a quick hand sign, but there's never a pass for the lead with an ego on the sleeve. Make no mistake, the riding is spirited and quick in the corners. Anyone with a right arm can hammer down the straights; it's proficiency in the corners that makes The Pace come alive.
.... Following distances are relatively lengthy, with the straightaways taken at more moderate speeds, providing the perfect opportunity to adjust the gaps. Keeping a good distance serves several purposes, besides being safer. Rock chips are minimized, and the police or highway patrol won't suspect a race is in progress. The Pace's style of not hanging off in corners also reduces the appearance of pushing too hard and adds a degree of maturity and sensibility in the eyes of the public and the law. There's a definite challenge to cornering quickly while sitting sedately on your bike.
.... New rider indoctrination takes some time because The Pace develops very high cornering speeds and newcomers want to hammer the throttle on the exits to make up for what they lose at the entrances. Our group slows drastically when a new rider joins the ranks because our technique of moderate straightaway speed and no brakes can suck the unaware into a corner too fast, creating the most common single bike accident. With a new rider learning The Pace behind you, tap your brake lightly well before the turn to alert him and make sure he understands there's no pressure to stay with the group.
.... There's plenty of ongoing communication during The Pace. A foot off the peg indicates debris in the road, and all slowing or turning intentions are signaled in advance with the left hand and arm. Turn signals are used for direction changes and passing, with a wave of the left hand to thank the cars that move right and make it easy for motorcyclists to get past. Since you don't have a death grip on the handlebar, your left hand is also free to wave to oncoming riders, a fading courtesy that we'd like to see return. If you're getting the idea The Pace is a relaxing, noncompetitive way to ride with a group, you are right.
RELAX AND FLICK IT
.... I'd rather spend a Sunday in the mountains riding at The Pace than a Sunday at the racetrack, it's that enjoyable. Countersteering is the name of the game; smooth, forceful steering input at the handlebar relayed to the tires' contact patches through a rigid sport bike frame. Riding at The Pace is certainly what bike manufacturers had in mind when sport bikes evolved to the street.
.... But the machine isn't the most important aspect of running The Pace because you can do it on anything capable of getting through a corner. Attitude is The Pace's most important aspect: realizing the friend ahead of you isn't a competitor, respecting his right to lead the group occasionally and giving him credit for his riding skills. You must have the maturity to limit your straightaway speeds to allow the group to stay in touch and the sense to realize that racetrack tactics such as late braking and full throttle runs to redline will alienate the public and police and possibly introduce you to the unforgiving laws of gravity. When the group arrives at the destination after running The Pace, no one feels outgunned or is left with the feeling he must prove himself on the return run. If you've got some thing to prove, get on a racetrack.
.... The racetrack measures your speed with a stop watch and direct competition, welcoming your aggression and gritty resolve to be the best. Performance street riding's only yardstick is the amount of enjoyment gained, not lap times, finishing position or competitors beaten. The differences are huge but not always remembered by riders who haven't discovered The Pace's cornering pureness and group involvement. Hammer on the racetrack. Pace yourself on the street.
© Copyright MOTORCYCLIST Magazine
November 1991 issue
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ninja14
Pro
Posts: 1136
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posted October 05, 2006 11:31 AM
With the lane as the limit and maximizing traction while leaning to the end of the contact patch (which actually GROWS as leaned) we are not going to get any faster unless we get a better bike.
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k bryant
Needs a job
Sponsor
Posts: 2911
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posted October 05, 2006 11:31 AM
Gospel.
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