fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted September 27, 2006 03:36 PM
quote:
Hacking the 14? It takes less than one hour to do, and if you are careful with the screws, it is completely reversible as well. You take off 6 screws, 3 plastic pieces, 7 bolts, move the tank, and access the butterflies.
Only wish I have the Phantom alarm at the time I had the bike apart for a week trying to find out why the PC3 wouldn't run, I could have installed the alarm in the interim! Oh well, I have one left over screw from my tear down, maybe when I pull everything apart again, I can find where it belongs.
The Phantom X installs under the left GF grill...easy access, very easy.
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FYYFF!!!
   
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zx14_1965
Zone Head
Posts: 505
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posted September 27, 2006 03:41 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Thanks for the info ZX_1965, have you got the TRE? You'll notice that the secrets out on the TRE on this forum. Agree with Stalwart above, TRE without secondaries isn't worth the extra fuel you'll burn dragging it around.
PS Nothing personal but is ZX_1965 aka IVAN?
I'll have the TRE and PCIII in a couple of days that I just purchased through MOTOFUEL. Was advised by a few tuners that the TRE was a good bang for the buck investment in terms of low end power. I'd build my own but I just don't savvy electronics, besides his stuff is guaranteed. I highly doubt Ivan claims that the TRE improves horsepower but claims that it improves the low end oomph many bikes are lacking in stock configuration. I wouldn't mess with removing the "flies", I've ridden a 14 with no flies and it sucks driving through town traffic but it's a blast to twist the wrist through the gears on an open road. I've never used a TRE so this is my first time using it, based on what I've seen in terms of low end performance for several other bikes I think it's a good investment. Why knock Ivan on the "TRE"...he was the first to invent the module and since some have disected it to see it consisted of a $5 part they think they earn the right to knock the man. Yes, anyone can now go out to your local electronics shop and build your own but just keep in mind who did the leg work in figuring out how to unleash the low end oomph on several line of bikes. Based on what I've seen, Ivan is a pretty proven tuner on several lines of bikes. He's a good egg in my book.
And no! I am not Ivan! 
Has anyone else out there shown dyno results on the 14 with the various setups? 
Nobody dissected his stuff, we just pulled out the service manual and saw what the ECU needs to see. And you might want to search for Ivan to see all the stuff that went on here, since you are missing some history here. $1 part to connect one wire to ground or $70 to do the same, your call and your money. And he was not the first to discover this, there are many others that came out with similiar ideas, he was just better at "marketing" (if you can call it that) his version. Why not go to Radio Shack, spend $2 for a pack of resistors, take out the one wire in question and attach the resistor to it, then to ground just to see what you will be getting with the TRE. Good way to learn, great way to decide value for yourself, and learn something about your bike/electronics along the way. And you have to pull the wires anyway to install the TRE...
Also, if you watch Ivan's answers on zx14ninja on A/F tuning and his old view of what an O2 sensor is, you can see there are few cards missing in his deck. He states that an O2 sensor is really nothing more than a temp sensor, and does not measure oxygen. If you have ever worked on O2 sensors, you would know that they need to be heated to be able to measure the oxygen content in an exhaust flow, as well as when they get clogged, they no longer detect the correct settings because the exhaust content is no longer flowing through the sensor tip. Rather an elaborate temp sensor if that is all the O2 sensor was.
One thing for sure he's a marketing geniuis....I've seen his TREs sold by the most famous tuners and distributors and the pro tuners attest to the TRE. I've seen a couple of TAIWAN made so called TREs on EBAY. I'm not electronics savvy and don't care to be. For those that chose to make your own TRE, good on 'ya! I had $69 to spend and no gumption to sort stuff out at Radio Shack and attempt to solder anything on my brand new 14. I don't try to get involved on the technical mumbo jumbo about the A/F and O2 sensors etc, that's way above my aptitude so I won't comment on the pissing contest related to those issues. Soon to have a PCIII and will leave the tuning up to the qualified man. A/F sniffer, IR sniffer, what method is used.....I don't particular care. The ultimate method is hooking up a data logger and tune it real world mode. Dyno tuning is just a guideline, it'll get you close but never perfect. I've seen tuners spend 5 hours just trying to squeeze out an extra 1 or 2 hp...who cares -- one or two will not be missed by the average joe.
cheers! 
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zx14_1965
Zone Head
Posts: 505
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posted September 27, 2006 03:42 PM
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Not Less...MORE. Check the thread at the top of the ZX14.com site....all the info is right there.
Check my post, I said less or otherwise 
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zx14_1965
Zone Head
Posts: 505
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posted September 27, 2006 03:47 PM
quote:
Hacking the 14? It takes less than one hour to do, and if you are careful with the screws, it is completely reversible as well. You take off 6 screws, 3 plastic pieces, 7 bolts, move the tank, and access the butterflies.
Only wish I have the Phantom alarm at the time I had the bike apart for a week trying to find out why the PC3 wouldn't run, I could have installed the alarm in the interim! Oh well, I have one left over screw from my tear down, maybe when I pull everything apart again, I can find where it belongs.
Screw that.....I like the TRE route and I'm sticking to it! 
Yes, flies out is completely reversible....let me know when you do it and how many times you scream and curse attempting to "reverse" it.
BTW - you don't need that extra screw...just toss it 
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted September 27, 2006 07:25 PM
quote:
I ZX1KR said he got 3-4HP with a module on a 10R.quote:
Mind you that's not Tuned! And I spoke w/ the owner of the 10r in ? & he said that the 3-5 hp increase only tells part of the story. He said the thing is Wicked responsive. We'll be Dyno tuning this bikealong w/ the 237HP Nitrous 14 on the evening of the 28th(Tomm. Nite)
I'll let y'all know how it goes.
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zx14_1965
Zone Head
Posts: 505
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posted September 27, 2006 09:31 PM
 Edited By: zx14_1965 on 27 Sep 2006 22:33
quote:
quote:
I ZX1KR said he got 3-4HP with a module on a 10R.quote:
Mind you that's not Tuned! And I spoke w/ the owner of the 10r in ? & he said that the 3-5 hp increase only tells part of the story. He said the thing is Wicked responsive. We'll be Dyno tuning this bikealong w/ the 237HP Nitrous 14 on the evening of the 28th(Tomm. Nite)
I'll let y'all know how it goes.
[/quote}
I don't doubt the responsiveness at all. Rode a Gixxer 1000 in stock form some time ago, then a week later with a TRE...IVANs TRE and it was truly night and day. No PCIII, just plugged in and went from dopey to a raped ape in the lower gears. So, the TRE obviously makes a difference, HP wise, I don't know but it is a totally different Gixxer.
I'm sure if Ivan is reading the negative posts, he's probably too classy to appease some of you who are more interested in knocking him about the differences that were addressed. . Most of the mumbo jumbo being addressed on this thread is way above most of our heads anyways...I know it's above mine so I don't care. I'm off the bandwagon about technicalities of A/F, 02 and the likes. I like to see and then feel the results. Ivan has provided a baseline for everyone to work from so take it from there and enjoy the potential of the 14. Hats off to Ivan. 
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navigator
Expert Class
Posts: 308
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posted September 27, 2006 09:46 PM
Screw Ivan!
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zx14_1965
Zone Head
Posts: 505
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posted September 27, 2006 09:54 PM
quote:
Screw Ivan!
Why? ....never mind, don't answer that.
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zx14_1965
Zone Head
Posts: 505
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posted September 27, 2006 10:03 PM
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IZX...what's with the mean lookin' shaved feline? Too many knots? I have a black one like that too...changed food and now no more knots! Cool cat though!! Was he/she parts of the Dyno results? LMAO
Took the kitt in for a "line cut"...the Laotian lady thought I said "Lion cut" Oh well, I'm sure the hair will grow back just in time for the cold weather.
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sphynx
Novice Class
Posts: 95
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posted September 27, 2006 10:20 PM
I wonder why Ivan ever called it a Timing Retard Eliminator? It's got nothing to do with retarding or advancing the ignition map. Maybe a ploy to confuse the masses at it's intended use? I personaly would consider buying a TRE if it came with it's own ignition map (You'll need a PC if you buy TRE), didn't screw with my neutral/engine lights, gave me the correct geat indication. Then $70 will be an acceptable price.
PS You say Ivan garentees his TRE, that must be tricky if TRE creates such a lean mixture around 3500 rpm, probly only garentees the TRE, not any damage to the bike?
____________
"My ambition in life I's to become the person my dog thinks I am" by rabbits losing lucky feet.
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zx14_1965
Zone Head
Posts: 505
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posted September 27, 2006 10:29 PM
quote:
I wonder why Ivan ever called it a Timing Retard Eliminator? It's got nothing to do with retarding or advancing the ignition map. Maybe a ploy to confuse the masses at it's intended use? I personaly would consider buying a TRE if it came with it's own ignition map (You'll need a PC if you buy TRE), didn't screw with my neutral/engine lights, gave me the correct geat indication. Then $70 will be an acceptable price.
PS You say Ivan garentees his TRE, that must be tricky if TRE creates such a lean mixture around 3500 rpm, probly only garentees the TRE, not any damage to the bike?
You'll have to ask Ivan why he called his device that. Ivan's website states the TRE doesn't require mapping and a few tuners stated the same. But I'm going to run a PCIII. I like things to be almost perfect.
You won't find anything out there that will leave the neutral, gear indicator in place. Not unless you go with the so much talked about "Flies Out" option. It's been a few years since the TRE's use and no one has yet to overcome the shortcomings of the gear indicator, neutral light issue. I for one don't need a gear indicator to tell me what gear I'm in and I never trust the neutral light.
There is a company that's making their version of the TRE and comes with a separate gear indicator module, more to come on their product...still under R&D for the 14.
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sphynx
Novice Class
Posts: 95
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posted September 27, 2006 11:15 PM
I battle to understand how you cannot need a PC, the TRE is allowing more air into the chamber, more air needs more fuel to give the "extra" power you see in the dyno graphs? Unfortunetly I haven't seen Ivan have any A/F ratio comparisons for when installing the TRE. I'm willing to bet that riding at a sustained 3500 rpm (when TRE opens the secondaries) you'll burn a hole in the cylinder?
anyway, my 2cetns worth.
____________
"My ambition in life I's to become the person my dog thinks I am" by rabbits losing lucky feet.
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jimmiedice
Expert Class
Posts: 105
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posted September 28, 2006 12:33 AM
Ivans TRE a waste of money.Rip the flies out and go. period.
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sands
Expert Class
Posts: 151
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posted September 28, 2006 12:54 AM
Why in the world is he doing flies out and TRE instead of dyno graphs with each mod seperately??? Notice the difference in low end torque in the other graphs when he removed the flies unfortunatley he included an exhaust so it's seems like an attempt to disguise where the gain came from..
And I have a hard time believing that Ivan isn't aware what his device is doing...
If you don't want to remove the secndary flies but want more low end performance I guess there's no problem with the TRE...
But there's bigger gains removing the flies plus it's free unless you count the PC but you need that anyway flies or TRE...Might as well just remove the flies and keep costs down and get more power out of the deal too...
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www.nonationalid.com
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zx14_1965
Zone Head
Posts: 505
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posted September 28, 2006 05:34 AM
quote:
I battle to understand how you cannot need a PC, the TRE is allowing more air into the chamber, more air needs more fuel to give the "extra" power you see in the dyno graphs? Unfortunetly I haven't seen Ivan have any A/F ratio comparisons for when installing the TRE. I'm willing to bet that riding at a sustained 3500 rpm (when TRE opens the secondaries) you'll burn a hole in the cylinder?
anyway, my 2cetns worth.
No need to battle....just do the PCIII and you've won your own battle.
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zx14_1965
Zone Head
Posts: 505
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posted September 28, 2006 05:35 AM
quote:
Ivans TRE a waste of money.Rip the flies out and go. period.
I ain't rippin' nothing out of my brand new 14
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BlueLIGHTning
Expert Class
Posts: 227
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posted September 28, 2006 05:42 AM
WOW I can't believe this is still a topic on here?
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zx14_1965
Zone Head
Posts: 505
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posted September 28, 2006 05:45 AM
quote:
WOW I can't believe this is still a topic on here?
Believe it, don't mind the poopey posted responses. Just look at the dyno graphs. But be warned, IVAN didn't post any with "Flies IN", TRE and full exhaust....ooooooohhhhhhhhh!
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navigator
Expert Class
Posts: 308
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posted September 28, 2006 06:21 AM
Poopey posted responses?
Sorry Maam! We didn't realize we were dealing with a lady. Maybe the other members of you sewing circle or bridge club might have more interest in Ivan than you seem to be generating here.
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stan55
Expert Class
Posts: 112
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posted September 28, 2006 06:43 AM
navigator,
You need to grow up... If the guy wants the TRE for his bike and he's happy with... That's all that maters.
Stan
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navigator
Expert Class
Posts: 308
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posted September 28, 2006 07:08 AM
quote:
navigator,
You need to grow up... If the guy wants the TRE for his bike and he's happy with... That's all that maters.
Stan
But........ But......... But......... I have an opinion too and I haven't posted it nearly as many times as he has rubbed on Ivan. Do we only post positive opinions and advice here?
OK fine. I positively don't agree with Ivan's methods of promoting his products or the limited amount of questionable info he provides along with it, and advise anyone considering it to do some more research on this forum before making a final decision.
Stan I'm forty-fukin-seven years old and grew up several years ago. I hope you're not thinking about calling my Mom on me cuz it ain't gonna do ya any good.
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jimmiedice
Expert Class
Posts: 105
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posted September 28, 2006 09:34 AM
quote:
quote:
Ivans TRE a waste of money.Rip the flies out and go. period.
I ain't rippin' nothing out of my brand new 14
You aint? We all had brand new 14.We all ripped stuff out. Thats the whole purpose, yank stuff out, like exhaust,flies,wheels,etc etc. Are you scared?
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted September 28, 2006 09:51 AM
quote:
I wonder if the TRE has any effect on engine timing on the 14? Not that I'd buy it since, a 5 cent (better) solution was posted here...but if you buy an ignition module we're talking $$$$ and maybe the 270 ohm resistor would net the same result? ZX1KR said he got 3-4HP with a module on a 10R.
It's still not worth giving up the indicator though
ZX...what's with the mean lookin' shaved feline? Too many knots? I have a black one like that too...changed food and now no more knots! Cool cat though!! Was he/she parts of the Dyno results? LMAO
LOL
Thats Funny....
I like bald pussy too!
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zx14_1965
Zone Head
Posts: 505
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posted September 28, 2006 09:52 AM
quote:
Poopey posted responses?
Sorry Maam! We didn't realize we were dealing with a lady. Maybe the other members of you sewing circle or bridge club might have more interest in Ivan than you seem to be generating here.
Oh I see, now we're down to name calling and degrading comments just because my opinion differs from yours. 
What's there to argue here?..I'm choosing my route and you choose yours and be happy with the outcome.
I am no lady either...ya punk 
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zx14_1965
Zone Head
Posts: 505
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posted September 28, 2006 09:54 AM
Edited By: zx14_1965 on 28 Sep 2006 10:57
quote:
quote:
navigator,
You need to grow up... If the guy wants the TRE for his bike and he's happy with... That's all that maters.
Stan
But........ But......... But......... I have an opinion too and I haven't posted it nearly as many times as he has rubbed on Ivan. Do we only post positive opinions and advice here?
OK fine. I positively don't agree with Ivan's methods of promoting his products or the limited amount of questionable info he provides along with it, and advise anyone considering it to do some more research on this forum before making a final decision.
Stan I'm forty-fukin-seven years old and grew up several years ago. I hope you're not thinking about calling my Mom on me cuz it ain't gonna do ya any good.
Your opinions are respected, but refrain from the low blows because my mod choices differ from yours. You say you're 47? Then act like it. My miniature Schnauzer and German Sheppards behave better than you. Well, the schnauzer think she's the boss the sheppard gotta bite on her to keep her in check. I won't bite you, but I will smack you.....SMACK! consider yourself ass beaten.
I won't call you a "DOINK"...that's reserved for Greg at the ZX14.net forum
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