TeamSpeed
Expert Class
Posts: 449
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posted September 21, 2006 05:44 PM
 Edited By: TeamSpeed on 21 Sep 2006 19:15
Havin' problems with PC3 #2 as well...
I am very confused at this point. I received a 2nd power commander as I believed my first one was bad. The general results of this one mirrors the 1st, when it is hooked in, if the bike is cold, it won't start, and when it does start (multiple tries while giving it some gas), and you rev it up about 3% to 3K, it chugs and shoots up/down over the rpm range, and under a load it just bucks. After the bike gets hot enough to turn on the fans, it seems to idle better and not chug as much, but under a load it still does. Unhook the PC3, and put the OE connectors back together, it runs fine, idle or on the street.
It cannot be a ground issue, because, I tried the Dynojet spot, and tightened it down, same thing. I cut the ground wire, soldered in a new 2 ft copper line, soldered the other end to the PC3 ground connector, and hooked it right to the ground bolt from the battery. Same exact behavior. So I am really puzzled now. Stock runs great, plug in the PC3, and it hardly runs and loads up on fuel, backfires, etc.
I reset the TPS settings so they read 0% at idle (when I first hooked it up to set this, it showed 3% with the dynojet stock values). I first tried the Dynojet stock ZX14 map it came with, and it was the same, loaded up Brocks street map for gen 3 and no flies, same behavior.
Almost like this ECU is just a bit off enough for the PC3, but that would not make sense. It has the part 411 on it, which I believe the dedicated ZX14 version. I wonder if I take my PC3 over to Schnitz, if Ryan would take a look at it. I am about 30 minutes away, but don't want to drive this with the stock map and the bike being all nekkid.
  
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Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted September 21, 2006 05:47 PM
Are you sure you are getting the connector seated all the way, Just asking because on my zx 10 i thought I had the connector seated and went out for a ride and ended up pushing the bike back, connector was not snapped in all the way.
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TeamSpeed
Expert Class
Posts: 449
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posted September 21, 2006 05:50 PM
Edited By: TeamSpeed on 21 Sep 2006 19:19
They both snap in and lock. I don't think I can get it go any further on the one end that is buried. The other is completely in, and in fact, is next to impossible to pull back out. No pins are bent, the factory harnesses look absolutely identical to the factory ones in depth and weather seal thicknesses, etc.
There is almost no way both PC3s are bad, so it is some other problem regarding the PC3 harnesses marrying up to the OE harnesses, but I don't see anything obvious. Very strange, not sure what to do at this point. I will be returning the first one as I have modified the 2nd one. This should have been the easiest of the 3 mods, and it is turning out to be a bitch.
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aliveagain
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posted September 21, 2006 06:35 PM
Maybe you're grounding a wire while the PC is plugged in and in another position while stock is ungrounded.Is your PC right next to the Alternator wires?
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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TeamSpeed
Expert Class
Posts: 449
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posted September 21, 2006 06:53 PM
I just simply have it all loose right now, it is out in the open as I am just testing the installation right now.
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted September 22, 2006 12:30 AM
Two questions:
Does the bike run ok without the PC ?
How does it run with a zero map ?
____________
Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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TeamSpeed
Expert Class
Posts: 449
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posted September 22, 2006 03:03 AM
It runs fine without the PC, but I haven't done any full blasts, or anything. But with a Brock pipe and no flies, it needs a PC to make sure no damage occurs.
Both PCs with a zero map act the same way as with any other map, badly.
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Bagster
Zone Head
Posts: 630
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posted September 22, 2006 04:25 AM
I have seen many connections go south with those "quick-clip" connectors.
I cut the wire to be tapped, strip both ends and twist them together and crimp on a female spade connector.
Fill the female with dielectric grease
Crimp a male spade onto your PC3 wire and plug him in.
That way you can't get any possible vibration induced intermittent connection failures that those quick-clip connnectors provide you with. 
It may not have been your problem, but you can surely rule it out this way.
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navigator
Expert Class
Posts: 308
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posted September 22, 2006 04:47 AM
quote:
I have seen many connections go south with those "quick-clip" connectors.
I cut the wire to be tapped, strip both ends and twist them together and crimp on a female spade connector.
Fill the female with dielectric grease
Crimp a male spade onto your PC3 wire and plug him in.
That way you can't get any possible vibration induced intermittent connection failures that those quick-clip connnectors provide you with.
It may not have been your problem, but you can surely rule it out this way.
You obviously don't have a power commander or you have way too much patience (too many wires) and tiny hands and tools.
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navigator
Expert Class
Posts: 308
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posted September 22, 2006 05:01 AM
Sometimes we overlook the obvious. You say it runs fine without the PC. With the OEM harness all plugged in the big bundle is shoved back toward the center of the engine and out of the way. Are you test running with everything pulled out to the side? If so are you blocking any of the throttle linkage? This comes to mind because I was holding onto that stuff as I removed my flys to keep the secondary shaft from rotating.
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TeamSpeed
Expert Class
Posts: 449
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posted September 22, 2006 06:15 AM
The thottle movement is all well above the wiring harness that is hanging out, but I will make sure. I have plugged/unplugged probably 20 times now, with no changes, OE works fine, PC doesn't. I almost wonder if there is just the slightest defect with the factory connectors where one pin works between the OE connectors, but doesn't make good contact using the PC connectors. I am going to go through each spring contact in the OE connector to make sure it is fully contacting the PC pins. I may even probe each wire to check for continuity at this point. I don't have any other thing I can look at.
As to the shaft moving during fly removal, it doesn't matter if you move the shaft while removing them, because the ECU, upon start up sends min and max voltage to them to open/close them for a baseline reading that is used for the rest of the run. You can see it happen when you start up the bike. If you hang up the shaft while it is running, it goes to an FI error, where you have to turn off the bike, wait a bit, and restart to get it to reset its readings.
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aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
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posted September 22, 2006 06:42 AM
I also asked about where your PC location was.I thought I read of problems with signal interference,but I don't remember if it was the PC or not.
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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TeamSpeed
Expert Class
Posts: 449
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posted September 22, 2006 10:07 AM
Ryan Schnitz to the rescue!!!
I don't know if what he is suggesting will work, I will check after I get home.
He stated that somebody else had a similiar problem, but they actually pulled out their battery, and then forgot to plug in some small harness. OE connections worked great, PC ran like crap.
I never pulled out my battery, but I remember seeing a blue connector sitting on the cross-arm holding the battery in that was open, with no connector going to it. I bet Woodsons prepped the bike and forgot to plug whatever this thing is back in, jerks. I disconnected one harness during all this installation, and that was the air temp sensor leading to the secondary flies.
I hope this is it. I think I remember seeing another blue connector stuck up against the side of the battery, but it was really dark in there. I bet my bike was prepped badly and this is the cause. Wonder what that plug is and why it would affect the PC.
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ninja14
Pro
Posts: 1136
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posted September 22, 2006 10:34 AM
Looking at the schematic I don't see that connector, but I know it's there. Plug it in and let it rip........
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TeamSpeed
Expert Class
Posts: 449
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posted September 22, 2006 01:08 PM
That was it, and per the service manual, that is the negative battery lead. My guess is that the factory ECU gets its grounds through other means, but Dynojet, since they only tie into one harness require either a measurement or ground for something across this battery negative lead, even though you have to ground a wire anyway.
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Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted September 22, 2006 01:12 PM
Glad you figured it out.
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TeamSpeed
Expert Class
Posts: 449
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posted September 22, 2006 01:39 PM
Edited By: TeamSpeed on 22 Sep 2006 14:41
What little I rode it to test before I start the reassembly of about 13 different plastic pieces, it was very neat. I will have to relearn driving it down low, like most folks stated. Just in time to put it away too. 
Now to return that call from FBA's company for the shipping of the alarm...
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