serius blk
Zone Head
Posts: 543
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posted August 16, 2006 04:29 AM
Got my ass handed to me by a limited edition busa
I decided that racing the guys in my neighbor hood was not getting my skills better. I dont have my bike lowered nor extended. I have the no flies, pc3 and megaphone. I went to call out a guy who races all the time. The last time i ran into him he was talking shit about racing my not broke in bike. Well he pulled to busa out to race with. One a 14 some cc busa with air shifter and all the extra stuff you could think of. His other was a stock limited busa with exhaust , pc3 and lowered to the ground. I raced the race busa which didnt make any sense. Even though i think with a 16t and lowered i may have made it into a better race. Ive been practicing taking off and in my own opinion pretty good at it to say the bike isnt lowered. He let me make the first move the first couple of races with the limited. I pulled away from him both times. He then said he was seeing what i could do. We then started taking off almost together. Out of all the times ive practiced. It seemed i wasnt doing anything right. The bike kept coming up at the end of 1st and as soon as i hit 2nd. I dont know if i was just nervous or what. Im usually able to keep the bike down in these gears. I did learn some stuff which i was happy about. I also learned that this guys days are numbered on that limited busa. A few of the races, he had me about 3 bikes and i was actually catching him. That let me know what kind of potential this bike really has. So im going to the 16t since im heavier then most racers at 246. I figure the 16 should make up for the weight difference. You know i will have the bike lowered when ever i decide to race. And the most important( A Whole Lot of Practice). This guy has been riding and racing for years. I really only have about 10wks on my drag racing skills. Ive been doing regular riding for yrs. So im not disappointed in my experience. Its just learning. And besides if i can run the busa down. Then he can be beat.
  
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lietoome
Needs a job
Posts: 2033
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posted August 16, 2006 05:13 AM
Baptism by fire, good stuff. Maybe you should race this guy more often and pick his brain. I realized after my first run that I didn't know shit. It was a very Humble feeling in my gut. It looks so easy... One guy asked why I didn't do burnout to warm the tire. My reply "I don't know how." He gave me a few pointers and I learned on the spot. Unless the guy is a straight azzhat, ask him questions. The guys that take racing serious are usually more than happy to help you go faster....In the long run it will give them better competition.
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halvefast
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted August 16, 2006 05:42 AM
Serius Blk- Don't let that first experience turn you off. I have beaten plenty of stk and slightly modded Busa's.
It will just take practice, we are close to same weight I'm 220. It is all clutch management,
and your bike will feel like a new animal once it is lowered and strap down the front end.
____________
Texas Mile 200.256mph - Oct. 2007 (Update 202.577mph Oct 2008) NOS assisted
ECTA Ohio Mile 195.132mph
TexasMile 2012 199.9 mph all motor!
Streetriders Shootout 2008 series Pro/ET Champ!
Streetriders Shootout 2007 Series Pro/ET Runner-up!
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SoCal ZX-14 Rider
Expert Class
Posts: 351
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posted August 16, 2006 06:13 AM
 Edited By: SoCal ZX-14 Rider on 16 Aug 2006 07:14
quote:
Baptism by fire, good stuff. Maybe you should race this guy more often and pick his brain. I realized after my first run that I didn't know shit. It was a very Humble feeling in my gut. It looks so easy... One guy asked why I didn't do burnout to warm the tire. My reply "I don't know how." He gave me a few pointers and I learned on the spot. Unless the guy is a straight azzhat, ask him questions. The guys that take racing serious are usually more than happy to help you go faster....In the long run it will give them better competition.
Exactly!!!
Couldn't have said it better myself. Its best to learn from more experienced riders as long as their not assholes.
Lietoome - could you share what you have learned about launching the 14.
This is what I have been working on from stop lights. Still havent found a dragstrip or ever tried there. But its killing me, I keep boggin out of the hole. I too am over 250 lbs.
I've been reving up to about 10,000 rpm and letting out the clutch so the r's stay up to control the boggin at 2500 - 4000. The front end lifts and I let off to keep it down and there again a slower launch.
My son on his 600 pulls me off the line for the first 50 feet, then I'm gone but this shouldn't happen, I should smoke him. It is kinda embarrasing in a funny kinda way.
Last time I tried a rear wheel burnout the tire caught traction and almost threw my bike into the garage wall. Need some pointers there also.
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If I'm not riding her, I'm dreaming about riding her! Mount up!
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serius blk
Zone Head
Posts: 543
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posted August 16, 2006 06:25 AM
i was thinking about how much of a change the bike will be when it is lowered. I have pretty good clutch management to say its stock height. I cant wait to lower it. Do any of you launch the bike the same way lowered? I dont know how much of a change it will be but im looking forward to it. I actually enjoyed running this guy. He talked big shit the first time but now its a different situation. I think maybe i got his respect since i wouldnt back down. He was definitly teaching me and giving pointers. Even the pros loss. It gives me something to strive to. Hes suppose to be the man to knock of the hill around here. This guys days are number on that busa. Hell i like running him on his race bike. He beat me about the same distance with both. I just couldnt run him down on his race bike. The 14 is definitly a top end bike. You live and learn in the race game.
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serius blk
Zone Head
Posts: 543
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posted August 16, 2006 06:44 AM
well from what ive learned. I launch the bike at 3500 and drag the clutch. Once the bikes moving i go on and let the clutch all the way out. The bike is already moving so it is controlable when you let the clutch out all the way. By that time i have the gas pinned. It should be easier when the bike is lowered. I wanted to get my skills together with it at its stock height. I would assume that would make you a better rider because its harder to do. It works good if your consistent. My clutch is working with no problems. It does take work to get used to dragging the clutch and operating the gas just right. Thats what the guy last night was telling me. Its all about the take off.
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted August 16, 2006 07:00 AM
It is much hard to launch good and consistent at 8-10K than it is at 3-5K.
Learn to leave consistently at 3500 - 4500 then move up to a rpm that is limited by
chassie. You can't use 150 hp out the hole so why burn up the clutch trying.
Unless your very good I'll bet you can make 3 clean 8k launches in a row.
You will get lucky sometimes, but don't bet on it.
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flatoutbu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted August 16, 2006 07:30 AM
That is where experiance takes over and helps out. It's funny how little things you would never think about effect the bike so much. We talk about tenths of a second in dragracing like there something easy to do...3 bikes is about 2-3 tenths in a 1/4 mile. You could bang off the rev limiter for a spit second and lose a bike or 2 right there...thats what makes dragracing so challenging...the more "perfect" you are the constant you are. practice practice practice...and dont forget to change things around alittle to better suit your riding level...and lower your bike if you get the drag bug...it helps alot
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted August 16, 2006 07:49 AM
If you are not at least semi consistent, change won't tell you anything.
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lietoome
Needs a job
Posts: 2033
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posted August 16, 2006 07:53 AM
I've got a whopping 322 miles on my 14, so for the launching, I'll have to get back with you. Where I live, there has been Record rainfall(El Paso, TX). We got slammed again last night. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind riding in the rain, but dodging big ass rocks and knee-deep water ain't gonna happen. It's actually sitting in the bay here at work until the rain subsides.
With any luck, the Only ghetto track we have is still in good shape...even though its been underwater a few times the past couple weeks. Fingers are crossed for Friday night.
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted August 16, 2006 08:53 AM
Edited By: dubious on 16 Aug 2006 09:53
I am running, no flies smeg, pc3, lowered 1.5 " front and rear, 16 tooth, and weigh 210 with gear on.
The 16 tooth and no flies allow lower rpm launches with very little loss of ET, but more consitency. Get consistent then gradually increase your launch rpm.
Gain Control, then increease intensity(rpm).
(You could never launch at anything below 6000 rpm stock , it falls on its face, until revs hit 6000.)
The lowered susp. makes a world of difference, and will dramatically lessen the wheelie tendency.
The best launches I have had are at about 3500-4000 rpm , more consistent.
In 1st gear I usually revit out until the front lifts and then bang it into 2nd gear with the tire off the ground, the momentary loss of power from the upshift brings her down, and then keep pulling gears right to 10,500-11,000.
I have my shift light set for 10,500 and practiced with that so that I could hear and feel the motor, after a while it became 2nd nature and I don't look at the light anymore.
10,500, because by the time you react its revved ot to 11,000 or so just before bouncing the rev limiter, as someone here has mentioned will inhibit your results.
Just my 2Cents .... take it or leave it. 
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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bayou boy
Expert Class
Posts: 147
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posted August 16, 2006 11:06 AM
i got the straps, the 1st time i race my friends , they had lim busa's , an they where lowerd, my bike was not , i still got dem, i been coming out the do for yr's , just on 1000's, had to get use to size of 14, once i got it lowerd with straps, they where done,1000's are the only thing that gets out on me, then i reel dem in, next week i change my exhaist to brock's street meg , an pc3 with a tre switch, i 'm kill'em all
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BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
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posted August 16, 2006 11:39 AM
This bike is ridiculously hard to launch stock it feels like a turd. But if you have a TRE or the secondaries taken out according to Brock and Shine the best RPM to leave at is around 2200 I launch around 3000 and it leaves like a mnissile and I weigh 360 pounds
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SoCal ZX-14 Rider
Expert Class
Posts: 351
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posted August 16, 2006 12:58 PM
quote:
I am running, no flies smeg, pc3, lowered 1.5 " front and rear, 16 tooth, and weigh 210 with gear on.
The 16 tooth and no flies allow lower rpm launches with very little loss of ET, but more consitency. Get consistent then gradually increase your launch rpm.
Gain Control, then increease intensity(rpm).
(You could never launch at anything below 6000 rpm stock , it falls on its face, until revs hit 6000.)
The lowered susp. makes a world of difference, and will dramatically lessen the wheelie tendency.
The best launches I have had are at about 3500-4000 rpm , more consistent.
In 1st gear I usually revit out until the front lifts and then bang it into 2nd gear with the tire off the ground, the momentary loss of power from the upshift brings her down, and then keep pulling gears right to 10,500-11,000.
I have my shift light set for 10,500 and practiced with that so that I could hear and feel the motor, after a while it became 2nd nature and I don't look at the light anymore.
10,500, because by the time you react its revved ot to 11,000 or so just before bouncing the rev limiter, as someone here has mentioned will inhibit your results.
Just my 2Cents .... take it or leave it.
Now thats the perfect technical answer - thanks
When I try to launch at 4000 rpm it boggs way down even if I hold the throttle wide open after I start moving, must be my beer belly.
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If I'm not riding her, I'm dreaming about riding her! Mount up!
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted August 16, 2006 01:04 PM
If you do not have the secondary plates removed , anything below 6000 rpm, and it WILL fall on its face.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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dubious
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Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted August 16, 2006 01:08 PM
quote:
If you do not have the secondary plates removed , anything below 6000 rpm, and it WILL fall on its face.
That was my experience with it stock anyway.
It was just too difficult to keep it boiling at 6000, then as soon as the clutch was enguaged the front would lift, and if you short shifted it stock, it would bog.
This bike was designed to run without the secondaries IMO.
kawi legal dept. must have determined it unsafe in the hands of generall public with 90ft lbs at 4000 rpm.
Highsides when the rear slides under power could definetely be a problem for those unaware.............
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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serius blk
Zone Head
Posts: 543
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posted August 16, 2006 01:38 PM
Well before the secondaries were pulled. I launch at 4000 slipping the clutch and give it gas as i started moving. I only had the bike bog when i dumped the clutch at such a low rpm. I start at 3500 now doing the same thing. I learned by watching the videos of the 14 in action. The guys with the stock wheelbase never just dump the clutch. You can hear them slipping the clutch. I figure with it lowered ill be able to let the clutch out sooner and give it more gas. I bet it jumps out with the 16 and lowered. I think doing it this way works fine for me. I guess me being nervous doesnt help. Like the guy i was racing said( what if you had money on the line.) If anyone interested. I have a brand new tre that i will be willing to sell for a lower price. Once i took the plates out. I didnt have a need for it. I have a tape of Rickey Gadson teaching how to drag and set up a bike. For those who arent pros its a excellent resource. He ran a 01 zx6 10.13 in the quarter on the tape. I think i need to look at it again.
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MOVEOVER
Parking Attendant
Posts: 5
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posted August 16, 2006 06:46 PM
quote:
For those who arent pros its a excellent resource. He ran a 01 zx6 10.13 in the quarter on the tape. I think i need to look at it again.
Where did you get the video from?
Are all you guys racing without steering dampers?
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serius blk
Zone Head
Posts: 543
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posted August 16, 2006 07:39 PM
i got the video from a friend. You could do a search a maybe come up with something. When i look at it ill get the info. I looked at the video of shine running the 9.01 on the 14. I started thinking that. 1 if your not using mr9 youll be under 10hp. He was feathering the clutch. And for someone my weight without the race gas the 16t should help me make up difference.
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted August 16, 2006 08:42 PM
Guys i'm running with the flies in, no p/c, stock 17 tooth gear and stock wheel base ...I leave at 4500 slipping the clutch and twisting the throttle at the same time ....My best 60 footer tonight was 1.51 .... You guys are not going to learn anything on the street, you need to get to the track ... What you may feel as fast on the street will be slow as hell on the strip....The flies and gears are not the problem and the bike is only bogging because of your skills ..Please get to a track and get some seat time, seat time is the key.... We all know the bike has the power to go lows nines it's us as riders that cause the problems...That last statement includes me too... I have over 70+ runs to get to 1.51 60 foot times.... It looks easy watching but much harder to do in real live ...Smokin.
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted August 16, 2006 09:20 PM
quote:
i got the video from a friend. You could do a search a maybe come up with something. When i look at it ill get the info. I looked at the video of shine running the 9.01 on the 14. I started thinking that. 1 if your not using mr9 youll be under 10hp. He was feathering the clutch. And for someone my weight without the race gas the 16t should help me make up difference.
serius blk please don't take this the wrong way , i'm just trying to help you and save some cash ..... Don't add any power or gears till you can master what you have now.. Adding hp now will be a waste off time ...Everytime you make a change you will have to relearn to ride the bike.... Just a simple change like adding some stronger clutch springs will screw you up.....Run the bike as is till you hit the wall and can go no faster , then make one change at a time ...Master that change and then add one more change ..A 16 tooth will make you feel faster but really make you slower ... I know one thing the 16 tooth will do for sure> wheelies< ........If you are wheeling you are going to slow down... Seat time is your best mod for now....I know guys with 350 hp turbo bikes that can't get out of the 9s , so hp is not the problem... good 60 foot times and 330 times wins races .... Any drag racer will tell you them same ....Sorry for the rant but i just want to help you guys go fast without a lot of cash ...Smokin..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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dubious
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Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted August 17, 2006 03:43 AM
Edited By: dubious on 17 Aug 2006 04:51
Smokin....
I'm not callain anyone out here so .... please don't take it that way buddy, OK?
Got a question though, I am guesssing your tach is above 6000 rpm at any point during the run, and your clutch lever is out, or the clutch is locked up.
I'm not telling them they have to leave the line with it above 6000 rpm,
Just at 210 lbs, with the clutch lever out, and less than 5800 rpm, the bike would bog, and then I was playing the clutch again, or simply waiting for the engine to spool up to 6000, before it would really begin to move again.
First sentence I told them was my bike was lowered too.
If the track has alot of VHT , or does not, or it is plain street pavement will all play into the wheelie factor.
I live too far away from a track to make it feasable, for now I use a GPS and veypor.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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serius blk
Zone Head
Posts: 543
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posted August 17, 2006 04:27 AM
well smokin i think your right. I was trying to master the bike as is with the stock well base and height. I thought i had that down. I have no problems with the bike bogging either. Thats all clutch play. My friend your definitly right on this one. If i do anything ill lower the bike when racing or practicing. I thought i was actually done good untill i ran up on a guy whos been racing for yrs. First thoughts were to make mods to compensate for my lack of skill. Screw that. Im going for being the best rider. Like the guy told me( Im out riding you, ill take your bike and beat you on mine.) Learned that it going to take alot more practice. I dont take the guy talking shit at times offensive because i can except that im a rookie at this and dont know everything. So point taken.
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halvefast
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted August 17, 2006 04:53 AM
Edited By: halvefast on 17 Aug 2006 05:55
Just my experience from last night to add.
I had hit a wall,  couldn't get it into the nines with 54 passes so far.
Installed 16T sprocket went to the track last night, it launches more consistantly, runs through the traps at the top of 4th now. But not much of an ET improvement 10.08,
but real consistant 10.15's @ 138 (1.70-60ft.) MPH didn't pick up at all.
I'm going to leave it alone for the next few trips to the track, just to get use to it, does feel like it pulls better out of the hole, but more controlable, not wheelie monster.
If it doesn't get any better, I'll go back on the gearing, and try pulling the flies.
Oh yeah...Busa kill #7 last night too! 
____________
Texas Mile 200.256mph - Oct. 2007 (Update 202.577mph Oct 2008) NOS assisted
ECTA Ohio Mile 195.132mph
TexasMile 2012 199.9 mph all motor!
Streetriders Shootout 2008 series Pro/ET Champ!
Streetriders Shootout 2007 Series Pro/ET Runner-up!
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted August 17, 2006 05:00 AM
quote:
Smokin....
I'm not callain anyone out here so .... please don't take it that way buddy, OK?
Got a question though, I am guesssing your tach is above 6000 rpm at any point during the run, and your clutch lever is out, or the clutch is locked up.
I'm not telling them they have to leave the line with it above 6000 rpm,
Just at 210 lbs, with the clutch lever out, and less than 5800 rpm, the bike would bog, and then I was playing the clutch again, or simply waiting for the engine to spool up to 6000, before it would really begin to move again.
First sentence I told them was my bike was lowered too.
If the track has alot of VHT , or does not, or it is plain street pavement will all play into the wheelie factor.
I live too far away from a track to make it feasable, for now I use a GPS and veypor.
dubious No problems Buddy ..... I can't tell you what rpm it motor is at full clutch release .. I only stage at 4500 ... I like i said i twist the throttle as i release the clutch at that point i'm a little to busy to watch the tac ....I go more by engine sound than the Tac ... There is a sweet spot and it's hard to find but once you find it hang on it's a hell of a hide !!!!! Smokin .. 
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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