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Road Rash

Novice Class
Posts: 67

posted August 02, 2006 03:37 AM

Back my findings clean air system.

Looking for someone to back what I have found. You will need a vacuum gage or carb sync. tool, and a working clean air system. Or someone that realy knows this system, you know who you are.

swft

Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION

posted August 02, 2006 04:56 AM

WTF are you talking about? That the crankcase has a positive pressure? Duh!

____________
82 Gpz750, 84 Ninja 900, 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy Big Bore Kit), *another* 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy custom stroke crank 1341cc motor), 2004 ZZR1200, 2005 ZX10R, 2007 ZX14, 2008 Concours 14, 2014 Versys 650, 2014 Yamaha WR450F, 2015 Ninja H2

Road Rash

Novice Class
Posts: 67

posted August 02, 2006 08:16 AM

Sorry for trying to think.Thought the best part of a good web sight was you could ask questions and get feed back without being made to feel stupid. Thanks

dubious

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Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442

posted August 02, 2006 08:42 AM

hey guys.
speak in complete sentences and finish what your trying to express.

We can't read your minds .... and have no desire to see what else may lay in the gray matter.

Road Rash

Novice Class
Posts: 67

posted August 02, 2006 08:47 AM

Edited By: Road Rash on 2 Aug 2006 10:22

Here is what I am thinking. Some posts people say that there is only a vacuum on the clean air system on decel. I found it to have about 1in hg all the time. When the rpm are raised it goes up to about 4 hg but returns to 1 right away. On hard decel it drops off but returns again to 1hg.
The rear blow by hose in the airbox does not see much of a vacuum outher than what little might be in the airbox. My gages don't even go that low to get a reading.
Some people are getting the whole block off kit like from muzzy, one good way to go.
Some are just pluging it off. Instead of plugging it off what if we just connected the blow by and the clean air tube together. Would having 4hg of vacuum on the crankcase hurt it?
Everybody seems to be looking for every mod that might give them something more. Having crankcase air in the intake system although not much of performance loss it is still stale air.
Also this mod. could be put right back the way it was if there was any warranty issue. Thanks for your thoughts.

zerMATT

Pro
Posts: 1931

posted August 02, 2006 08:54 AM

?

Here's an idea. There's this think called a question mark (it looks like this: ?). When you put it at the endof a sentence, then EVERYONE knows that you've just asked a question rather than simply making a statement. Novel idea...

From what I've seen, you haven't asked a question yet. You've only made statements. How are we supposed to answer? (that was a question, by the way)

Vegasdude

Zone Head
Posts: 821

posted August 02, 2006 08:58 AM

quote:
?

Here's an idea. There's this think called a question mark (it looks like this: ?). When you put it at the endof a sentence, then EVERYONE knows that you've just asked a question rather than simply making a statement. Novel idea...

From what I've seen, you haven't asked a question yet. You've only made statements. How are we supposed to answer? (that was a question, by the way)

?

Road Rash

Novice Class
Posts: 67

posted August 02, 2006 09:26 AM

Edited By: Road Rash on 2 Aug 2006 10:27

Dam you guys are a tuff crowd. Realy did not expect to run into my old english teacher here but hi how you doing? I corrected the post with a ? and the question is would having 4hg of vacuum on the crankcase hurt anything?

fastestbusaaround

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Posts: 7889

posted August 02, 2006 09:28 AM

VD --

Dude...the whole site is worthless without pics...

Dude...the whole site is worthless without pics...

:
____________
FYYFF!!!

fastestbusaaround

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I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889

posted August 02, 2006 09:36 AM

Edited By: fastestbusaaround on 2 Aug 2006 10:51

dupe...sorry, fixed now...so how 'bout a beer eh?
____________
FYYFF!!!

Road Rash

Novice Class
Posts: 67

posted August 02, 2006 09:37 AM

Dam you guys! How many times can you kick a dead horse ?

fastestbusaaround

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I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889

posted August 02, 2006 09:50 AM

Edited By: fastestbusaaround on 2 Aug 2006 10:51

Oops...the site didn't respond the 1st time...and I didn't see the post when I got it to respond, hence the duplicate post...I'll fix that now.
____________
FYYFF!!!

Vegasdude

Zone Head
Posts: 821

posted August 02, 2006 10:01 AM

Edited By: Vegasdude on 2 Aug 2006 11:02

haha............FBA, you're too funny..........!! Your so helpful, your toastado's new buddy........

fastestbusaaround

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I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889

posted August 02, 2006 10:14 AM

Edited By: fastestbusaaround on 2 Aug 2006 11:16

haha..guess.that's just the way it is huh? But I have to admit...it's kinda funny the way we all have a name for him....hell, that's really gotta confuse the newbies huh?

BTW, I never asked ya...but we have the same setup on the 14...do you have the flames on decel and some black soot in the can? Did you have to reset the TPS using the DJ software or was this all done right at DJ?
____________
FYYFF!!!

Vegasdude

Zone Head
Posts: 821

posted August 02, 2006 10:28 AM

confusion is a good thing..................

dubious

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Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442

posted August 02, 2006 11:27 AM

Edited By: dubious on 2 Aug 2006 12:29

quote:
Dam you guys are a tuff crowd. Realy did not expect to run into my old english teacher here but hi how you doing? I corrected the post with a ? and the question is would having 4hg of vacuum on the crankcase hurt anything?

Sounds like that may bea good thing...
click on the 2007 RM450 article on the cover page here and see what suziki claims about having the crankcase under vacuum!

http://www.mcnews.com.au/

Suzuki is advocating having the crankcase under slight vaccum helps ring seal!
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.

tslewisz

Expert Class
Posts: 328

posted August 02, 2006 11:32 AM

RoadRash - I didn't read all the garbage in this thread, but think I caught the highlights of what you're really asking.

I did what I think you're talking about on my ZX-12R. I didn't bother proving it, but others proposed that tying the KleenAir into the crankcase breather was worth between .5 and 1 HP.

It's blocked here at work, so I can't provide a link now, but the full procedure is documented on www.ZX-12R.org. Our humble moderator Blitz originally wrote it.

swft

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Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION

posted August 02, 2006 11:50 AM

You guys got it all wrong. What RR was saying was that there was a vacumn on the line coming from the airbox. DUH!!

Of course there is! That's where the engine pulls in the air from!

Why is it so hard to understand that upon decel, the reeds open and draw air from the airbox to the exhaust stream?

Of course the airbox is under a slight vacumn, especially when sitting still and getting ZERO ram air effect.
____________
82 Gpz750, 84 Ninja 900, 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy Big Bore Kit), *another* 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy custom stroke crank 1341cc motor), 2004 ZZR1200, 2005 ZX10R, 2007 ZX14, 2008 Concours 14, 2014 Versys 650, 2014 Yamaha WR450F, 2015 Ninja H2

dubious

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Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442

posted August 02, 2006 12:19 PM

Edited By: dubious on 2 Aug 2006 13:27

quote:
You guys got it all wrong. What RR was saying was that there was a vacumn on the line coming from the airbox. DUH!!

Of course there is! That's where the engine pulls in the air from!

Why is it so hard to understand that upon decel, the reeds open and draw air from the airbox to the exhaust stream?

Of course the airbox is under a slight vacumn, especially when sitting still and getting ZERO ram air effect.

DUUUH! No you have it all wrong. DUH!!

He was asking about something less obvious than that.

He asked if it was OK to have the crankcase under 4 hg vacuum, and that is what i replied to.

Answer is yes, slight vaccum is ok, and you would never generate more than that through the cc vent unless your air fliter , or ram air plumbing is plugged.

____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.

tslewisz

Expert Class
Posts: 328

posted August 02, 2006 12:19 PM

swft - My assumption was that he was talking about measuring the KleenAir vacuum (which was specifically stated) detached from the airbox (which was not specifically stated).

If that's not the case, then "duh" is appropriate.

dubious

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Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442

posted August 02, 2006 12:25 PM

quote:
Dam you guys are a tuff crowd. Realy did not expect to run into my old english teacher here but hi how you doing? I corrected the post with a ? and the question is would having 4hg of vacuum on the crankcase hurt anything?

" and the question is would having 4hg of vacuum on the crankcase hurt anything? "
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.

tslewisz

Expert Class
Posts: 328

posted August 02, 2006 12:32 PM

Gotcha.

Though my original post didn't specifically answer that, I indicated that we did it on ZX-12's, implying that it was okay, and pointed to a reference that may be useful for anyone wanting to try it.

dubious

Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442

posted August 02, 2006 12:51 PM

10-4 buddy!
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.

Road Rash

Novice Class
Posts: 67

posted August 04, 2006 05:35 PM

Edited By: Road Rash on 4 Aug 2006 18:45

Sorry to be so unclear.
Dubious and Tslewisz thanks you seem to get what I was thinking. Nothing to do with the airbox.
swft hate to tell you but the clean air system has a vacuum on it at all times and all rpm ranges from what I have found. This system I believe works on the venturi effect and the reed valves just keep the exhaust from ever blowing back into the airbox. The manual tells you to pull the hose out of the airbox hold your finger over the pipe at idle and if the hose does not have a pulse vacuum replace the air valve. The manual says very little about the operation.
It would seem that a one way valve would be a good thing to have just incase the reed valves did not work and allowed the exhaust to blow in to the crankcase. Thanks for reading and sorry I don't play well with outhers and I have ADD.

Road Rash

Novice Class
Posts: 67

posted August 04, 2006 05:55 PM

Dubious thanks for the link but it does not say much outher than ring seal. On my outher thread I asked about the rings cause low tension allways responds well to vacuum on the crankcase. Just trying to put my thoughts out there and get my post up and be a post whore.

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