smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted July 13, 2006 06:26 PM
quote:
It's better than the 12 clutches after abusing them...How about all steels have purple spots on them and the ones in the center are purple not silver anymore 
I dont remember but how many frictions and steels in the OEM 14 clutch???
Anyone know what size the steels are that Kawasaki put in all the 14s???
137 link chain will probably be + - 62" wheelbase???
I hope 62 doesn't take 137 links .... I'm going 61 inch and was told i only needing a 130 link chain and that what i have !!!!!!!!! Damn this is going to suck if i'm short 7 links ...... the zx14 is 57 1/2 wheel base stock ... I wonder how many links it uses stock....?
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
  
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted July 13, 2006 06:38 PM
Me thinks that FOB probably took 6 links off, after what smokin tells me ???
Smokin, so count the links...
All I know is that my 12 is a 60" wheelbase with 126 links!!!
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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RICH CRAFT 1
Zone Head
Posts: 681
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posted July 13, 2006 06:41 PM
flatoutbu: The part number for the steels is 13089-0018 this is a 2.6 mm which is what
Kaw installs from the factory. The outer fiber which I cannot find the part number is
larger on the tabs the full length of the steel, this first fiber when you pull the pressure
plate off will fit in any of the slots except for the last one which has the anti chatter ring.
All the fibers could be replaced with this first one and even the little one with the
chatter ring could be replaced and do away with them. My ZX 12 muzzy clutch did this.
I talked to Coby Adams about shimming the clutch he said 240 thousands I used
MTC shims in 50 thousands increments this proved to be too stiff. A 150 thousands
would be plenty on a stock motor. Kaw uses 2.3/2.6/2.9 mm thickness the ideal thing
would be to use the 2.9 mm but with new clutches this would leave the installed height
too tall. The best thing would be as the clutch wore and it will to rotate 2.9 mm as they
wear. I have been though 1 clutch and working on the 2nd from the like of spring
pressure as the clutch wore down. I believe using the 1st fiber (thicker tabs) would
be some help for this excessive wearing problem. The correct installed height if you
look at a new 14 pull the oil cap and look at the pressure plate in relation to the
basket the beveled edge of the pressure plate meets almost even with the end
of the basket. If you watch this on your bike you can see how much your clutch
is wearing.
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Red 06 ZX14 RR
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BROOKLYNNYZX12
Zone Head
Posts: 520
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posted July 13, 2006 07:13 PM
I believe that all bikes fry the inner most plates 1st thats why they look progressively better as you get to the outer portion of the hub.If the 14 has anti-chatter shims like the 12 does in the clutch it probably would be better to ditch them and put a regular plate in its place.Brock has a stock clutch set up in his bike with 90+ passes on it it must be pretty strong.The clutch on the 14 is much larger than the 12 so I think it will be a big improvement.BTW I get 100+ passes out of my clutch and I weigh 200+ suited up,I have gone 9.80's on my bike stock wheel base,87 octane pump gas,foot shifting.
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted July 13, 2006 10:30 PM
 Edited By: dubious on 13 Jul 2006 23:35
Do you soak your fibers in oil before installing them?
trick I learned from motox days, fibers last much longer when they are completly doused with oil before installing. Could be dry spots that will burn!
The oil your using have moly... moly is death for clutches!
Does the basket look like there is any place for the plates to be hanging up ?
I have drilled all of my CR500 baskets, with 1/8 bit, staggering the holes from one splin to the next , getting oil to all plates, to ensure fresh oil is picked up from the sump when the clutch is disengauged.
Seems really strange that your clutch appears to be an isolated case!
Stranger yet its the center fiber!
Kawi won't let me link but heres the address for the clutch parts diagram
http://www.kawasaki.com/scripts/ImgServ.exe/convert?ilFN=e:\epcimages\I14\I1415\E1350.TIF&ilIF=P&ilSC=25&ilIV=0&ilBR=0
Just trying to help..
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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flatoutbu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted July 14, 2006 10:19 AM
Cr:....i measured wheel base lastnight 65"
Dub:...Yes i soak my clutchs. I'm not a isolated case, i just talked to amy at schnitz and she told me she cant keep 14 clutchs in stock. I race at least 4 times a month anywhere from 30 to 50 passes. I'm not sure about the moly..i use Kaw Chem 10-40.
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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flatoutbu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted July 14, 2006 10:29 AM
Oh yea...i ordered my next clutch. i tried finding somebody with a zx11 fiber instock but nobody had one so i could see if they matched up....so i ordered 9 outside fibers (13088-0031) These are the outside wider fibers...i'm hoping to just stack them in there...then i'll check stack hight to see if it will work. I also bought some shims..so we'll see if i can get that too work too.
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted July 14, 2006 11:50 AM
Rich Craft...You shimmed the 14 or the 12 clutch???
I would remove the anti chatter ring and the smaller friction on the 14 if that friction plate breaks!!!...Thats what we have to do on the 12s!!!
Bu...Your bike is long!!!...You should have no trouble with clutches on your bike, just throw the clutch away  Let us know how the clutch feels after you put the wide friction contact plates in!!!
Bklyn,NY... You must have a good clutch hand to get 100+ passes from a ZX12 clutch
Brock... What size shims did you use in the clutch when Shine rode your 14???...Did you leave the anti chatter ring in place or replace it with same size friction as the others???Did you use the wide contact friction plates or OEM from factory???
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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RICH CRAFT 1
Zone Head
Posts: 681
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posted July 14, 2006 05:39 PM
CrotchRocket...The clutch I was referring to shimming was the 14. The reason
I referred to the 12 clutch is because Muzzy clutch for the 12 removed the anti chatter
ring and went to the largest steels 2.0 to keep from warping as much. The smallest
steel on the 14 is 2.3 stock is 2.6 so the 2.9's would be the best against warping if
you could get it all in there. The zx12 runs 5.50 @ 135, it is 64 in long with a
17-55 sprocket clutches in it last forever. Would love to get the 14 16-48 this would
give me a 478 final drive, stock is 385, 1 tooth down 16 gives you 409 this is still
higher than a stock zx12 421. I have a 19 for the front for street driving 48 rear
would give you 409. Just some numbers to think about.
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Red 06 ZX14 RR
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted July 14, 2006 07:40 PM
Edited By: CrotchRocket on 14 Jul 2006 20:41
So, you have worked on the 14s clutch???
I guess you have a big motor in your 12...Clutch last forever @ 64", nice 1/8 mile!!!...That sure is alot of gear in your bike, how much you weigh???...Tell me what clutch set up you have in your 12!!!
I have a stock motor 12 and still foot shift, 16-46 gearing, 60" wheelbase...
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
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posted July 14, 2006 09:34 PM
Well ok I am going to open my mouth and try not t o sound like a complete mongoloid... I ordered a set of clutch spacers from Brock (the ones mentioned in the diary) got them today and went to put them on and well since I dont know the technical terms for most of this stuff I am going to give it my best shot... the first thing you see after you take the black clutch cover off is the metal thing that covers the fibers with the 5 screwed in springs in it I took the 5 screws and springs out and slid the spacers in then wen to screw the springs back in well it didnt go so well with the spacers underneath the springs, the springs were too long and they binded up does that make sense, so whenever you pull in the clutch lever it felt like the front BRAKE absolutely no give at all it went in about an inch then just stopped so I looked again and the fiber cover ( i guess that is what the metal piece that holds the fibers in place is called)was pushed out where it didnt lock in place with the teeth thingees this happened because ( or so it seemed to me) because the springs had to much pressure on them and the leafs of the springs overlapped each other giving the clutch plate enough slack to slide out of place... of course these things came with no instructions so I am not sure I put them in right but I finnally got them off and put everything back together and everything is ok but no clutch spacers... oh yeah this was like 6:30 central time so brock was gone so if anyone can give me DETAILED instructions in laymans terms I would appreciate it
P.s going to the track tommorrow my club rented the strip for the day cost us 2500 but we got bikes from all over the state comin and we are charging 10 bucks to get in and 10 bucks to race so maybe we will make our money back
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flatoutbu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted July 15, 2006 06:30 AM
It seems like you didnt get the clutch back together right the first time. Alittle extra spring pressure shouldnt have pushed the hub out so the fiber slid out of place..."am i reading that right?" It's a learing experience.... i pulled the oil pan off my bike lastnight for the first time...talk about nervous. Oh and the large fibers are roughly .105 to .110 thick where the "standard" fibers are .150...i took all my measurements off the old clutch that came out of the bike so a new one will probaly differ alittle...although the ones i measured were the best ones out of the clutch pack. I was thinking i could possibly squeeze another fiber and steel in there if i take the chatter rings out. I'll know more when the new fibers get here.
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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14black
Expert Class
Posts: 280
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posted July 15, 2006 07:01 AM
quote:
It seems like you didnt get the clutch back together right the first time. Alittle extra spring pressure shouldnt have pushed the hub out so the fiber slid out of place..."am i reading that right?" It's a learing experience.... i pulled the oil pan off my bike lastnight for the first time...talk about nervous. Oh and the large fibers are roughly .105 to .110 thick where the "standard" fibers are .150...i took all my measurements off the old clutch that came out of the bike so a new one will probaly differ alittle...although the ones i measured were the best ones out of the clutch pack. I was thinking i could possibly squeeze another fiber and steel in there if i take the chatter rings out. I'll know more when the new fibers get here.
How did the screen look???
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RICH CRAFT 1
Zone Head
Posts: 681
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posted July 15, 2006 07:27 AM
Black Magic14.....The shimms that Brock uses and also the smaller ones I used
from MTC have to be put on the outside of the spring as the stud that holds the
spring in place gets larger as it gets deeper. Those shimms will lockup on
the shaft before they reach the bottom. Be sure as you tighten up the bolt that
these shimms don't get caught between the stud and the washer bolt assembly.
Crotch Rocket...........The 12 motor is 1315 cc stock cams the weight with rider is 730 pounds. This low gear only works well with auto electric air shifter. You can't
shift fast enough by foot shifting as you have to shift more gears in the same space
losing whatever time you pick up with the low gear. Clutch setup on the 12 is a
muzzy clutch pack not a lockup. I have already been through one clutch on the 14
and shimmed it 240 thousands this was too much for stock motor I think about
150 would be enough on a new clutch pack probably is ok the way it is but these
small tabs on the friction plate wear very quickly. I did not realize that the first plate
was so much longer on the tabs than the rest next time I will replace all with the
longer tabs.
flatoutbu............Hope you will let us know how these longer friction plate tabs work.
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Red 06 ZX14 RR
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flatoutbu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted July 15, 2006 09:57 AM
the screen looked fine...most of it was caught in the basket...alot of cleaning, some brake parts cleaner and some clean oil through the system...everything looks ok. I also looked st the fiber tabs on the "larger" fiber...there half again as big as the "standard" fibers...took the time too count them too...50 on both kinds of fiber. Fibers won't be here until monday.
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted July 15, 2006 11:58 AM
quote:
the screen looked fine...most of it was caught in the basket...alot of cleaning, some brake parts cleaner and some clean oil through the system...everything looks ok. I also looked st the fiber tabs on the "larger" fiber...there half again as big as the "standard" fibers...took the time too count them too...50 on both kinds of fiber. Fibers won't be here until monday.
Well at least you have peace of mind that everything is clean and will not cause a problem down the road .....Let us all know what happens when your parts show up ...Smokin
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
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posted July 15, 2006 08:37 PM
Thanks rich craft so basically the spacers go betweet the nut and the spring kind of like a washer?
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flatoutbu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted July 16, 2006 04:50 PM
Can anybody tell me if Kaw Chem full Syn has molly in it. The first clutch had standard oil in it and it lasted the same as the Kaw Chem...thinking about going back to standard oil.
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted July 16, 2006 05:02 PM
quote:
Can anybody tell me if Kaw Chem full Syn has molly in it. The first clutch had standard oil in it and it lasted the same as the Kaw Chem...thinking about going back to standard oil.
I would think not .. Why would Kawi put molly in it's oil if it's bad for clutchs? I ran the factory stuff for 200 miles then swapped to Mobil 10 40 motorcycle oil... My other bike zx1200r i run Mobil one 15 50 car oil and i can't count the number of 9.50 passes i have on the bike and have never pulled the clutch cover.. My zrx1200 clutchs are small than the zx1100 clutches and the bike weighs the same as the zx14 ... It has 155 RWHP and just over 90 Foot pounds of torq .... Smokin
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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flatoutbu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted July 17, 2006 10:33 AM
Yea my 93 zx11c went 19000 miles and 4 years of dragracing and never had a problem out of it. I ran Mobil 10-30 full syn in it and never had a problem with the clutch. i'm just trying to rack my brain for reasons why this clutch is doing this. when i get home i put the clutch in and give you guys some feed back
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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RICH CRAFT 1
Zone Head
Posts: 681
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posted July 17, 2006 02:00 PM
Thanks rich craft so basically the spacers go betweet the nut and the spring kind of like a washer? (YES)
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Red 06 ZX14 RR
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flatoutbu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted July 18, 2006 08:49 AM
Clutch didnt come in lastnight. I was told it will be here wed or thurs....kind of sucks considering i race in a points race on wed night.....damn falling father behind.
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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flatoutbu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted July 21, 2006 06:24 AM
Clutch still isn't here...called lastnight said he was waiting on 1 fiber.....figures. Supposed to overnight it tonight no matter what. i borrowed a bike wednesday night and won...so maybe the clutch going out wasnt so bad.
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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iflyphi
Zone Head
Posts: 542
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posted July 22, 2006 07:34 AM
What track do you race at?
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kawpower
Zone Head
Mr kawasaki 2 you!
Posts: 887
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posted July 22, 2006 10:34 AM
Orientx, has the heavy duty clutch springs, i got one of the first sets in my 14 and they feel good.
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