flatoutbu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted July 13, 2006 07:26 AM
times,weights...burnt clutchs
Ok, here is some numbers and info for you guys. I got the extensions and gear put on the bike Tuesday night. Took off the old wore tire (899miles) and stuck on a new shinko. Here are some weights for you guys.
190 003 shinko...14.15 pounds
old tire and rim with sprocket.....36.02 pounds!!
new tire and rim with sprocket.....37.21 pounds
roaring toys ext.....6 pounds
sorry never got around to weighing the drag chain (137links) but it felt lighter than the stock chain.
Ok, took the new setup to the strip and pulled 4-9.50's passes out of it in 80 degree weather with 86% humidity. We had a 20 mph headwind also. The bike was pulling low 1.50's 60's with no traction problems at 25 psi. I was still riding the bike like it was stock..pussying it out of the hole and still wheeling it at the end of first. Much smoother though...alot more controlable. The bike has easy 9.30's-9.20's with my 235 pound ass on it. The bike ran great until.....clutch #2 went out of it. I have changed my launch alot to be softer on the clutch but i guess it wasnt enough. Launching at 4000 rpm and letting the torque do most of the work. I'm going to try shimming the next one and try and get more than 35 passes out of it. The steel's are huge but the fibers are about half the size they need to be. Can anybody get me part #'s for the steels and fibers. If i dont get this problem solved it's going to be a expensive year of racing.
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
  
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted July 13, 2006 07:36 AM
9.50s cool man ....nice job ...Now hammer that puppy out of the hole and get some 1.30s 60 foots and you will be going low 9s....
I have maybe 40 passes on my clutchs and no problems yet ... I hot lap mine to get as many runs in as i can get and still the clutchs seems to be holding up fine ..My zrx1200 runs 9.50s and i have 300+ passes on it with the stock clutch ..Maybe it's just the way i use the clutch that makes them last so long..
Call Brock he used some spacers and springs that he uses in the Busas that seemed to work good in his zx14 ... Hope that helps ... smokin...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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flatoutbu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted July 13, 2006 07:44 AM
yea this is getting old..clutchs are to expensive to replace every 3 weeks. I had a old 93 zx11 that had 19000 miles on it and 4 years of dragracing on the original clutch. I'm not sure if the dyno time killed it or maybe because im 235lbs. I wouldnt think so but all the light guys arent having clutch problems. I have heard a few guys are having clutch problems around here, but theres nobody with a 14 in town dragracing like i am. Lets strap alittle weight to your ass smokin and see if you kill a clutch....LOL
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted July 13, 2006 07:54 AM
quote:
yea this is getting old..clutchs are to expensive to replace every 3 weeks. I had a old 93 zx11 that had 19000 miles on it and 4 years of dragracing on the original clutch. I'm not sure if the dyno time killed it or maybe because im 235lbs. I wouldnt think so but all the light guys arent having clutch problems. I have heard a few guys are having clutch problems around here, but theres nobody with a 14 in town dragracing like i am. Lets strap alittle weight to your ass smokin and see if you kill a clutch....LOL
lol i have over the years tried to gain weight ...Never happened !!!! Now i'm damn glad i can't gain weight ....Low weight makes me real fast ....lol.....It pisses all my friends off , their all over 200....
First sign of clutch slipage i'm calling Brock and get his spacers and springs ..... Brock is no light weight and has 100s of dyno runs and passes down the strip .... And different riders have made passes on his zx14.. I would think if anyone was going to have problems it would be Brock.....Call the man and see what he has to say ... Smokin the skinny ass .. lol .. 
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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iflyphi
Zone Head
Posts: 542
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posted July 13, 2006 07:55 AM
I have the exact same set up you. I weighed the rear wheel awhile back when I put the Shinko on it, I think I posted the results here, but it was 40lbs on an electronic scale. Summbitch is incredibly heavy. The down side to going with lighter wheels might be that you don't have enough weight in the back and it will spin.
My friend and I are going to run the piss out of mine hopefully Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Still have stock clutch and maybe 40 passes on it. I have hot-lapped it many times and done 3 runs back to back with no slipping. I weight 200 suited. I launch at about 5000, slip the clutch, but am not giving it enough throttle as my 60's are only 1.60 so far.
Brock will have those spacers listed on his website soon. S13-CM-SP Retail Price $20.00
That is the part number for them. There are six of them, but you only need five.
Here's Paul,
You will have to call my sales staff to order: 937-298-6818 we have them in stock.
The part number I gave you is for 6 spacers.
The 14 only needs 5 of them.
I am out of the office until next week- I should have them up on the site shortly after I return.
BD
his message to me in reference to spacers;
I haven't bought them yet as I waiting to waste this clutch first. Which might be sooner rather than later.
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted July 13, 2006 07:57 AM
OH P/S what was your 330 and 1/8 ETs and MPH ?? I'm Guessing you 1/4 mph was around 147 ?? Smokin...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted July 13, 2006 08:00 AM
quote:
I have the exact same set up you. I weighed the rear wheel awhile back when I put the Shinko on it, I think I posted the results here, but it was 40lbs on an electronic scale. Summbitch is incredibly heavy. The down side to going with lighter wheels might be that you don't have enough weight in the back and it will spin.
My friend and I are going to run the piss out of mine hopefully Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Still have stock clutch and maybe 40 passes on it. I have hot-lapped it many times and done 3 runs back to back with no slipping. I weight 200 suited. I launch at about 5000, slip the clutch, but am not giving it enough throttle as my 60's are only 1.60 so far.
Brock will have those spacers listed on his website soon. S13-CM-SP Retail Price $20.00
That is the part number for them. There are six of them, but you only need five.
Here's Paul,
You will have to call my sales staff to order: 937-298-6818 we have them in stock.
The part number I gave you is for 6 spacers.
The 14 only needs 5 of them.
I am out of the office until next week- I should have them up on the site shortly after I return.
BD
his message to me in reference to spacers;
I haven't bought them yet as I waiting to waste this clutch first. Which might be sooner rather than later.
Thanks iflyphi ... You Da Man ....
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted July 13, 2006 08:15 AM
flatoutbusa:
Sounds like you have quite a bit of drag experience..... so this may be old news..
But if your using the clutch between gear changes that may be the reason for burn't clutches, 190 + HP will cause clutch slip between gear changes.
I would think the clutch might never catch up when disengaguged with this power, your weight, and good traction.
Just a thought, disregard if you have already considered this, and are already clutchless shifting.
Nice results with the bike BTW!
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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iflyphi
Zone Head
Posts: 542
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posted July 13, 2006 09:23 AM
I use the clutch to shift and SO FAR don't have any problems. I'm really hoping the weather holds for the weekend. I'd like to just run the total piss out of this thing and see what kind of abuse it can take.
Still waiting on an airshifter though.
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flatoutbu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted July 13, 2006 10:42 AM
dubious:...i have a airshifter...so no foot shifting for me. The bike never hinted at any clutch slippage whatsoever. We went to intermission, let the bike sit a half hour then went out and tried to run first round trophy. It slipped right out of the hole and just went to crap. I was hitting that airshifter button like it owed me money but wasn't going anywhere..lol By the time i loaded it on the trailer it had to be pushed on because it wouldnt even make it up the ramp. If i remember right didnt Ricky G say Coby Adams found clutch slippage at 200hp shimmed it up...slipped at 240...shimmed it up again and it held till 300hp on nitrous? I'll call Ryan and maybe i can get some info from him about all this.
Oh and it's FlatoutBu....never owned a busa in my life : )
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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flatoutbu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted July 13, 2006 10:54 AM
Smokin: i think in Brocks diary he said he pulled the clutchs out after 40 or 50 passes...of course he put them back in and still ran it. It's kind of weird with stock gearing i was running 145 with 2 up in the back (16t gear on backorder) it was running 145. No change in MPH all of it was in my 60'...i know with alittle more time with this set-up and some good weather i can go 9.20. I'm hoping to put a lighter rider on the bike just to say it can ran 8's but after watching my 50 pound lighter cousin ride it lastnight it's going to take alittle seat time for anybody to get used to the bike. I'm just happy i can finally keep up with some of the smaller guys at my track. Has anybody got the stock part #'s for the steels and fibers...i reaaaally need them? Also..."this was stupid on my part"...when i pulled the steels out i couldnt remember if the round or the flat side of the steels faced out....does anybody know? Not sure if that will make awhole lot of difference but i'm anal like that
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted July 13, 2006 11:12 AM
 Edited By: smokinZX14 on 13 Jul 2006 12:21
plate numbers 13088-0030 it shows 4 plates 13088-a 13088-b and two 13088.....
Try this > http://www.kawasaki.com/html/default_frame.asp?strContentURL=/site/home/homesplash.asp
Go to the page and click on parts book and service link...next pape put in zx14 1400cc and click .. next page click on 50 state zx14 ....it's pain in the ass to get to but everything you need to know is there...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted July 13, 2006 12:50 PM
FOB, with the extensions how long is your 14???
What chain did you put on???...137 links on the bike or you cut some off???
Flyphi, dont use the clutch while DragRacing, you kill the life of your clutch and thats how you blow up the clutch basket !!!
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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flatoutbu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted July 13, 2006 02:02 PM
thanks... i got all the part #'s off a dealer today....but they had 3 listings for the steels all different thickness...... 2.3,2.8,and i think 2.6mm Not sure which thickness it is.
Croctch Rocket:...not sure how long, i havent measured it since i stretched it (wow that sounds bad) It was a 140 link Drag chain i cut 3 links off because when i put the 16t sprocket on the front it will slide back another inch. That cover for the front sprocket looks like its going to be a bitch to remove.
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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kawpower
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Mr kawasaki 2 you!
Posts: 887
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posted July 13, 2006 02:04 PM
zx11 fibers will work , the contact pads are wider, opps i forgoti am an idiot and therefor should not be posting.
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iflyphi
Zone Head
Posts: 542
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posted July 13, 2006 02:09 PM
Schnitz racing has the OEM clutch paks instock for $195. They also have the springs, but I think they are out of the gaskets.
I ordered Nitrous today, but won't put it on until next week and probably will wait for an airshifter before I use it.
Wont' be racing tomorrow night at planned. I have to workover an extra day. But will try for Saturday and Sunday, Wx permitting.
Flat, did you call Brock about getting those spacers/shims?? Just wondering if he has some other clutch goodies for the ZX14 that aren't on the site yet, as I'll probably be next.
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flatoutbu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted July 13, 2006 02:27 PM
Kawpower....if that works you have been thinking like me since i replaced my first clutch. The fiber contact patch is half the size of the steel. I have a shim kit a friend gave me out of his bike. He bought it from Brocks for his gsxr but he said it made his clutch waaaay to stiff, there very thick spacers... i went and looked at brocks diary and the spacers i have look thicker than the ones he put in his bike. My last clutch came from schnitz and i have a line on some alot cheaper than them, but i got to put some part #'s together to see if it's going to work.
iflyphi: airshifters are the shit! I'm going to pull the clutch out now...i'll see if i can get you some pics of the shifter set-up
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted July 13, 2006 02:44 PM
quote:
zx11 fibers will work , the contact pads are wider, opps i forgoti am an idiot and therefor should not be posting.
Good info ... That's something we should look into for sure..... Thanks...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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flatoutbu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted July 13, 2006 05:35 PM
Ok here is what i found out. First inspection of the clutch...it didnt look that bad.....steel,fiber,steel,fiber...its slowly getting worse....steel..........fiber (wtf) 5th or 6th fiber back..gone..nothing left "damn i must have really fried this one.....hmmm...alittle better...alitlle better...not too bad ....looks brand new. The first and last fibers "the odd ones"..looked brand new. Now i have seen alot of burnt clutchs but never one that just burns one fiber to hell. I looked to see if it something that i had done but everything looked ok. I'm going tomorrow to the dealership to look at zx11 fibers and i'm going to call my "hook-up" and see what he can get me. Oh and another non related problem...my Brock exhaust hits my oil filter...now i have the stock 004 oil filter...i think i will switch to the shorter 002....i never noticed this problem until tonight...just wasnt lookin i guess
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted July 13, 2006 05:43 PM
quote:
Ok here is what i found out. First inspection of the clutch...it didnt look that bad.....steel,fiber,steel,fiber...its slowly getting worse....steel..........fiber (wtf) 5th or 6th fiber back..gone..nothing left "damn i must have really fried this one.....hmmm...alittle better...alitlle better...not too bad ....looks brand new. The first and last fibers "the odd ones"..looked brand new. Now i have seen alot of burnt clutchs but never one that just burns one fiber to hell. I looked to see if it something that i had done but everything looked ok. I'm going tomorrow to the dealership to look at zx11 fibers and i'm going to call my "hook-up" and see what he can get me. Oh and another non related problem...my Brock exhaust hits my oil filter...now i have the stock 004 oil filter...i think i will switch to the shorter 002....i never noticed this problem until tonight...just wasnt lookin i guess
You know a zx14 doesn't have an oil cooler, i wonder if the header touching the oil filter caused a very high oil temp? High oil temp may have help cook your clutch? So your saying the first and last clutch plates look good and one of the middle ones is toast? I'm with you , the ones i have seen burn the first and last plate..... Strange ..... Smokin...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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flatoutbu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted July 13, 2006 06:01 PM
Yup...i never thought of it as "oil breakdown" though. It had Kaw chem in it 10-40 full syn. Good stuff, but tomorrow my credit card will cringe when i buy 5 quarts and a filter....again. yea the one in the middle was toast...fibers were completely gone on the inside. I was trying to think of a way i can flush out the system before i put the good oil in it. Like running a couple quarts of crap oil through it before i put the good stuff in....just as a flush. I was looking around trying to see if there was a spot i could tap to run a small line to spray oil on top of the clutchs..same mod as the one you do on the Y1's. I was feeling alot of heat on my pants leg lastnight....i thought it was just the hot exhaust but i realize most of that heat was coming from the clutch cover.
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted July 13, 2006 06:15 PM
quote:
Yup...i never thought of it as "oil breakdown" though. It had Kaw chem in it 10-40 full syn. Good stuff, but tomorrow my credit card will cringe when i buy 5 quarts and a filter....again. yea the one in the middle was toast...fibers were completely gone on the inside. I was trying to think of a way i can flush out the system before i put the good oil in it. Like running a couple quarts of crap oil through it before i put the good stuff in....just as a flush. I was looking around trying to see if there was a spot i could tap to run a small line to spray oil on top of the clutchs..same mod as the one you do on the Y1's. I was feeling alot of heat on my pants leg lastnight....i thought it was just the hot exhaust but i realize most of that heat was coming from the clutch cover.
Yup good idea to flush it with some cheap oil ... But that may not help get the clutch fibers out of the pick up screen... I have seen the screens on other bikes clog up with clutch fibers..... Lets say the first clutch you smoked blocked some of the pick up screen.... Now you have less oil going to the clutchs and everywhere else for that matter.... If it was my bike i would drop the pan and clean the pump screen .. At least if you drop the pan you will know that all that clutch junk is gone and not a problem ...Your other idea about running an extra oil line to the clutch is a good one , maybe worth a look for sure ...Smokin...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted July 13, 2006 06:17 PM
It's better than the 12 clutches after abusing them...How about all steels have purple spots on them and the ones in the center are purple not silver anymore 
I dont remember but how many frictions and steels in the OEM 14 clutch???
Anyone know what size the steels are that Kawasaki put in all the 14s???
137 link chain will probably be + - 62" wheelbase???
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted July 13, 2006 06:20 PM
One more thing ... The Gixxer guys have problems burning clutchs ... I'm not sure how they do this but i was told they grind some groves somewhere in the basket to feed the clutch more oil... Just thinking out loud... Smokin...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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flatoutbu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted July 13, 2006 06:24 PM
Yea i keep telling myself to pull that and clean the screen out.
CR..10 fibers 9 steels..5 springs. Steels look just like the 11's but i'll know tomorrow...and i'll go home tonight and measure wheelbase
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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