2toGo
Expert Class
Posts: 165
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posted June 27, 2006 02:30 PM
 Edited By: 2toGo on 27 Jun 2006 15:31
I am a Snap-On Tool Dealer, Spun wrenches for 24 years prior to this, the last 15 of those years i owned my own repair facility. I have temp checked the rad. when the 3rd bar is lit, 1 aboue center. with the fan on, coolant on the inlet side (riders left) the temp is 212 degrees. On the out let side 198 degrees. Problem is the single fan isn't enough to cool the engine in stopped traffic. The bike WILL over heat !!!
  
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Mano 2
Expert Class
Posts: 360
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posted June 27, 2006 02:53 PM
SA, 2toGo
Sounds like a possible solution to me.
Also checking coolant level and using water wetter.
Thanks. Good info. Maybe add a pipe and synthetic oil also.
The 2nd fan almost sounds like a factory recall issue.
A start at least.
Mine goes to the last bar quickly in Houston traffic.
And I would hate to get caught in a bad jam.
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zx61114
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted June 27, 2006 03:14 PM
2toGo, worst case what will happen if we bump the H on the coolent gauge?
Rob
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2toGo
Expert Class
Posts: 165
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posted June 27, 2006 05:22 PM
Edited By: 2toGo on 27 Jun 2006 18:23
Possible boil over, Possible blown head gasket ? Both warranty issues ! We'll just have to wait and see. July 4th were riding to Cedar Point, Then the 8th & 9th to Niagra Falls. 3rd week in August is the big ride. From Monroe MI to Sault Ste. Marie through Canada to International falls MN. back thru the states and back home. Hopefully these bastards make it !
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swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
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posted June 27, 2006 05:27 PM
I'm up here in the PNW. Was 91 yesterday and today. Temp gauge was 1 bar over halfway. I'm gonna start a new poll. Maybe a running line change? Been done before...
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zx61114
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted June 27, 2006 06:14 PM
2toGo is the bike showing signs of blown head gasket? From one traveler to another it's best to find out now before you leave, there are places you really don't want to break down in. Not worth the risk for me. ie Coming down I-77 near the NC/Va border, dropping elev, Truckers flying down a mountain in a heavy fog not a good place to have a problem.
Rob
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S A Kruz
Expert Class
Posts: 127
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posted June 28, 2006 08:14 AM
quote:
I am a Snap-On Tool Dealer, Spun wrenches for 24 years prior to this, the last 15 of those years i owned my own repair facility. I have temp checked the rad. when the 3rd bar is lit, 1 aboue center. with the fan on, coolant on the inlet side (riders left) the temp is 212 degrees. On the out let side 198 degrees. Problem is the single fan isn't enough to cool the engine in stopped traffic. The bike WILL over heat !!!
I'm assuming 3rd bar above C bar is 212 deg. right? What about 4th bar i.e. the one just below the H. Have you gotten a temperature reading there? A lot of us have lit up the 4th bar sitting in traffic in 90 -100 degree weather., I know I have at least once. I'm curious at what temperature we start doing engine damage?
I don't think boil over, blown head gasket, head warping will occur until the H bar starts flashing for awhile. If you don't shut it down at that point you probably deserve what's going to happen next anway..
Detonation may be an issue but I doubt it. Lubrication viscosity and film strength begins to go south at some point if temps get excessive. I may switch over to a full synthetic ASAP to get a little added protection.
Synthetics have a very high V.I and resist thinning at high temps quite well. I may try the water wetter idea, where can I purchase some? Auto parts store or specialty bike shop?
I think the pipe will help to. Zermatt changed to a D&D system and his engine is running cooler.
Dual fans might help but my engine is hitting 3rd bar sometimes at 80 mph, should be plenty of ram air flow at that speed with or without the fan on.
A combination of all or some of these fixes might be the best approach or just keep breaking it in and maybe the problem will just go away with accumulation of miles. Do they test these things at KHI before releasing to the market?
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2007 CBR 1000RR Red/Black Yoshimura RS-5 Full System, Flapper Mod and PCIII
2006 ZX-14 Passion Red, Flies Out, Yoshimura TRC, PCIII, TRE006a and Custom Map
2004 VTX 1300C Candy Apple Red
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zerMATT
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted June 28, 2006 08:20 AM
I think the H bar comes on at 258F. It's printed in the manual, but I don't have my manual right here to confirm....
Yeah, I think my D&D cans & mid pipes are helping the temps - it ran nicely cooler on last weekend's ride. I'm sure that running without those cat's plugging up the exhaust system helps to get heat out of there quicker... not to mention all of that stainless steel soaking up and holding onto the heat.
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14 | Black D&D Slip-ons | Speedo Healer | V1 | zumo 550 | Heli-Risers | PhantomX
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SteveWFL
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted June 28, 2006 08:27 AM
I'm in FL and my 14 sits at red lights for the duration. Sure it gets hot just as my 750 and ZX9 did. But it hasn't overheated and hasn't flashed mean indications at me (as of yet).
The ZX9 I actually had to kill the engine at red lights, but not this bike.
Been hot in Tampa too LoL
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2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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S A Kruz
Expert Class
Posts: 127
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posted June 28, 2006 09:39 AM
quote:
I think the H bar comes on at 258F. It's printed in the manual, but I don't have my manual right here to confirm....
Yeah, I think my D&D cans & mid pipes are helping the temps - it ran nicely cooler on last weekend's ride. I'm sure that running without those cat's plugging up the exhaust system helps to get heat out of there quicker... not to mention all of that stainless steel soaking up and holding onto the heat.
Did you notice an immediate drop in coolant temp after changing the cans out? Any other changes that might have affected it? I think you're on to something, the cats are choking this engine, holding the heat in. I've seen this before, I may go the Muzzy slipons and see if that helps.
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2007 CBR 1000RR Red/Black Yoshimura RS-5 Full System, Flapper Mod and PCIII
2006 ZX-14 Passion Red, Flies Out, Yoshimura TRC, PCIII, TRE006a and Custom Map
2004 VTX 1300C Candy Apple Red
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zerMATT
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted June 28, 2006 10:09 AM
I must say that I didn't pay *that* close attention to my temp issues and the can timing, but they must be helping. The bike is definitely running cooler at 2,800 miles than it was at 500 or 600, so I'm sure that some has to do with break-in, some is oil changes, and some is the pipes w/o cats.
Aftermarket cans sound sweet compared to those stock silencers (and I do mean SILENCERS). These D&D's are sweet and full sounding, but they don't scream like old D&D's do. Either way, the stock cans have to go!!
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14 | Black D&D Slip-ons | Speedo Healer | V1 | zumo 550 | Heli-Risers | PhantomX
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S A Kruz
Expert Class
Posts: 127
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posted June 28, 2006 10:37 AM
quote:
I must say that I didn't pay *that* close attention to my temp issues and the can timing, but they must be helping. The bike is definitely running cooler at 2,800 miles than it was at 500 or 600, so I'm sure that some has to do with break-in, some is oil changes, and some is the pipes w/o cats.
Aftermarket cans sound sweet compared to those stock silencers (and I do mean SILENCERS). These D&D's are sweet and full sounding, but they don't scream like old D&D's do. Either way, the stock cans have to go!!
How much for the D&D's and where do I get a set.? Did you remap, add PCIII etc. ??
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2007 CBR 1000RR Red/Black Yoshimura RS-5 Full System, Flapper Mod and PCIII
2006 ZX-14 Passion Red, Flies Out, Yoshimura TRC, PCIII, TRE006a and Custom Map
2004 VTX 1300C Candy Apple Red
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zerMATT
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted June 28, 2006 11:00 AM
Edited By: zerMATT on 28 Jun 2006 12:00
D&D sells direct and through resellers. I hadn't seen their pricing online so I just called and asked. The polished aluminum system is $505, black satin $564, CF $740, faux Ti $775.
You can do a fair amount of mix-and-match with the pipes, cans, and hangar brackets, so don't be afraid to ask for a "custom" solution. I chose black satin but got faux Ti mid-pipe and end caps.
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14 | Black D&D Slip-ons | Speedo Healer | V1 | zumo 550 | Heli-Risers | PhantomX
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S A Kruz
Expert Class
Posts: 127
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posted June 28, 2006 11:42 AM
quote:
D&D sells direct and through resellers. I hadn't seen their pricing online so I just called and asked. The polished aluminum system is $505, black satin $564, CF $740, faux Ti $775.
You can do a fair amount of mix-and-match with the pipes, cans, and hangar brackets, so don't be afraid to ask for a "custom" solution. I chose black satin but got faux Ti mid-pipe and end caps.
Black satin or carbon fiber would look awesome.Can you post pics?
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2007 CBR 1000RR Red/Black Yoshimura RS-5 Full System, Flapper Mod and PCIII
2006 ZX-14 Passion Red, Flies Out, Yoshimura TRC, PCIII, TRE006a and Custom Map
2004 VTX 1300C Candy Apple Red
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zerMATT
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted June 28, 2006 12:39 PM
Check out these threads for some pics:
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=27&TID=24440
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=27&TID=24631
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14 | Black D&D Slip-ons | Speedo Healer | V1 | zumo 550 | Heli-Risers | PhantomX
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted June 28, 2006 01:09 PM
quote:
I'm up here in the PNW. Was 91 yesterday and today. Temp gauge was 1 bar over halfway. I'm gonna start a new poll. Maybe a running line change? Been done before...
..wha???...swft has a 14?....    
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“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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reynoldss
Expert Class
Posts: 207
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posted June 28, 2006 01:25 PM
Mine is running way cooler with a Brocks full sytem and power commander. Between the cats and the bike running lean it helped a lot .
____________
Everybodys tyring to go green, I did years ago.
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zerMATT
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted June 28, 2006 02:00 PM
quote:
..wha???...swft has a 14?....
Quite the shocker, huh?? 
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14 | Black D&D Slip-ons | Speedo Healer | V1 | zumo 550 | Heli-Risers | PhantomX
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2toGo
Expert Class
Posts: 165
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posted June 28, 2006 03:07 PM
No The bike is not showing any signs of any problems at all. I thought you were asking me what were possile problems from over heating . That's what my answer was.
Jim
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raptor14
Expert Class
Posts: 264
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posted June 28, 2006 04:12 PM
Tried the water wetter suggestion from 2toGo. Glad it worked for him. Did nothing for me other than drop my freeze point from -35 F to -20F. Temp gauge responds exactly the same when based on ambient temperature and how hard I push the bike. Riding in slow traffic on an 80+ F day is always the 3rd bar above C. Highway cruise regardless of ambient temp at 60 to 100 mph is always 2 bars above C. With or without water wetter. At least I learned how to pull the fairings off the bike. Doesn't seem to heat up faster when idling or cool down faster when I get up to cruise. Really can't tell any difference at all.
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zx61114
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted June 28, 2006 05:35 PM
Thanks Raptor, I was wondering if anyone else has tried the Water Wetter suggestion. It seems as though my engine is not as tight as she was 5000 miles ago thus heat is less of an issue but still an issue. Was the coolant full when you checked her out?
Thanks Rob
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MasterBlaster
Expert Class
Posts: 297
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posted June 28, 2006 05:52 PM
Water Wetter doesnt advise above 17% antifreeze. I drain complete system and refill with distilled water and about 1/2 bottle of water wetter. I also put on the Muzzy aluminum fan. It has helped. Only thing is if you live where it freezes you will have to change back to antifreeze for winter. The Wetter has all the corrosion inhibiters, water pump lube and everything to keep the cooling system in great shape. I run it in my supercharged Valkyrie also......TB
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raptor14
Expert Class
Posts: 264
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posted June 29, 2006 04:12 AM
Yeah zx61114. Coolant level was fine. I siphoned the 50/50 out of the radiator and replaced with eqivalent amount of water wetter. Note that the cooling system only holds around 4 quarts of fluid so don't go hogwild. Make sure that you do retain the 17% antifreeze level as noted by MasterBlaster. I then started the engine and let her heat up until the thermostat opened and coolant was circulating. Cut her off and let her cool. Opened the radiator and checked the coolant level. Was fine. Buttoned up the fairings and took off. My experience was that Water Wetter did nothing of significance for me. Same response from the temp gauge in terms of level and heat up/cool down time response.
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S A Kruz
Expert Class
Posts: 127
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posted June 29, 2006 04:26 AM
quote:
Water Wetter doesnt advise above 17% antifreeze. I drain complete system and refill with distilled water and about 1/2 bottle of water wetter. I also put on the Muzzy aluminum fan. It has helped. Only thing is if you live where it freezes you will have to change back to antifreeze for winter. The Wetter has all the corrosion inhibiters, water pump lube and everything to keep the cooling system in great shape. I run it in my supercharged Valkyrie also......TB
What is the advantage of the Muzzy fan over OEM? Must be flexing less or they repitched the blades for a higher rate of airflow. Whats the scoop?
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2007 CBR 1000RR Red/Black Yoshimura RS-5 Full System, Flapper Mod and PCIII
2006 ZX-14 Passion Red, Flies Out, Yoshimura TRC, PCIII, TRE006a and Custom Map
2004 VTX 1300C Candy Apple Red
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HiMile14
Expert Class
Posts: 424
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posted June 29, 2006 04:47 AM
Edited By: HiMile14 on 29 Jun 2006 05:52
Schmucko has changed his name.
Fish I did not delete my old name and I'm thinking maybe I should. If I do we may lose all my excellent reports ;^) just joking there. Your call what ever you want me to do will work, you will have to walk me through the delete process. Thanks
HiMile14
AKA ZX61114
Rob
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