TheVak
Expert Class
Posts: 274
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posted June 08, 2006 07:44 AM
ZX14 High Flow Air Filter ??? Who Makes Them
Does anyone know who is making aftermarket high flow air filters
for the ZX14. And I mean which ones are available now ?????????
I tried ECB and no dice yet................
Thanks Chris
   
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted June 08, 2006 08:04 AM
try bmc race
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speedgene
Zone Head
Posts: 996
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posted June 08, 2006 08:30 AM
I'll tell you right now Vic... stay stock. These are (somewhat) throw-away cylinder cases. You start making grit lines in the cylinder surface, and this will cause a stress crack somewhere down the cylinder lining. The (Nikasil) cylinder wall finish tends to crack/chip off the aluminum bore. These are not cast iron cylinder walls anymore.
Just a warning what my happen down the road with less air filtering.
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E-tard
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swiftkart
Expert Class
Posts: 349
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posted June 08, 2006 08:42 AM
quote:
I'll tell you right now Vic... stay stock. These are (somewhat) throw-away cylinder cases. You start making grit lines in the cylinder surface, and this will cause a stress crack somewhere down the cylinder lining. The (Nikasil) cylinder wall finish tends to crack/chip off the aluminum bore. These are not cast iron cylinder walls anymore.
Just a warning what my happen down the road with less air filtering.
If it does flake and come off they can easly be replated back to stock spec so they are not a throw away design, my yamaha tz250 has Nikasil cylinders and we just replated them after they wear from a season or so of racing, scratches and gouges are no problem to fix, there is no real cause for alarm as far as the Nikasil cylinder design is concerned...now as for the dirt hurting your crank, rods, bearings, etc...that's another story..
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2006 ZX14, Brock CT-Meg, PC, ignition module, E85, 214 lbs suited, 8.96@152.32 1.46 60'
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speedgene
Zone Head
Posts: 996
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posted June 08, 2006 09:11 AM
 Edited By: speedgene on 8 Jun 2006 10:15
swift, let's say hypothetical you need to re-bore the cylinder. Ever see the exhaust side of the 14's cylinder wall? Let's say you need a major removal of the Nikasil. You need shave about .003" of wall just so you can spray the coating back on, and cut the finish. O/S pistons? Lack of metal transfer is going to create more heat.
I'd rather reinvest in a new case, than to waste $$ trying to fix it.
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E-tard
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TheVak
Expert Class
Posts: 274
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posted June 08, 2006 01:50 PM
OK now I am more confused. This is a much newer bike then my
last. I usually know that you get more fuel and it flows better with the pipe
and usually you would put in a high flow filter to give the extra fuel more
air to breathe. I was told by muzzy unless I was trying to squeeze every
tiny bit of HP out of it then you can f*$k with the filter and adjust the map.
But I need a deffinate answer. The guy at Muzzy said to leave it alone that
the pipe and the PC III was plenty so i don't know........................... ??
The Vak
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swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
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posted June 08, 2006 01:51 PM
Yer right. You don't know...
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havabusa12r
Expert Class
Posts: 425
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posted June 08, 2006 05:55 PM
You'll just have to wait for independent testing of the aftermarket. Some bikes really wake up with aftermarket air filters and some don't get you anything more but a washable unit.
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(68 Yam 175 2-stroke)
(99 Copper Busa) (99 Duc 900 SS full fairing) (00 MV Agusta F4S) (02 Aprilia RSV Mille) (02 ZX 12r CTB) (03 KTM 950 Adv)
(04 Yam R1) (05 LE Busa) (07 ZX 14)
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swiftkart
Expert Class
Posts: 349
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posted June 08, 2006 06:05 PM
quote:
swift, let's say hypothetical you need to re-bore the cylinder. Ever see the exhaust side of the 14's cylinder wall? Let's say you need a major removal of the Nikasil. You need shave about .003" of wall just so you can spray the coating back on, and cut the finish. O/S pistons? Lack of metal transfer is going to create more heat.
I'd rather reinvest in a new case, than to waste $$ trying to fix it.
You don't have to bore Nikasil to remove it, it's chemically stripped and reapplied, if there are deep gouges they are welded honed and new coating applied back to stock bore, no need for O/S pistons, been having this done for more than 15 years, it's nothing new and the companies who do it have been doing cylinders and repairs for stock and race engines for years without any problems, but if you would rather buy new cases than that's your business.
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2006 ZX14, Brock CT-Meg, PC, ignition module, E85, 214 lbs suited, 8.96@152.32 1.46 60'
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zxlnt
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted June 08, 2006 06:21 PM
Millenium can fix anything dude trust me.. I've seen some fucked up shit go to them and come back looking brand new...
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havabusa12r
Expert Class
Posts: 425
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posted June 08, 2006 06:24 PM
Has anyone actually hurt their cylinder walls just by running a high flow air filter?
??????
Or, was it the guys that run NO air filter?
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(68 Yam 175 2-stroke)
(99 Copper Busa) (99 Duc 900 SS full fairing) (00 MV Agusta F4S) (02 Aprilia RSV Mille) (02 ZX 12r CTB) (03 KTM 950 Adv)
(04 Yam R1) (05 LE Busa) (07 ZX 14)
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Mano 2
Expert Class
Posts: 360
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posted June 08, 2006 06:42 PM
High flow is ok, as long as it's not just a rock screen, right?
No filter, see above discussion for repairs.
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sands
Expert Class
Posts: 151
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posted June 08, 2006 10:11 PM
LOL...The14's doesn't have "throw away cylinders" unless you like to throw money away..Swift said it best
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www.nonationalid.com
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TheVak
Expert Class
Posts: 274
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posted June 09, 2006 06:13 AM
I will just wait and see. I am going to have my map tuned from the Dyno.
So we will see what it has with the Carbon Fiber Muzzy and the PCIII USB.
I popped in the Engine Ice and a few other trick parts last night. Need to
get to the dyno soon.................
The Vak
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zerMATT
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted June 09, 2006 06:57 AM
Wait a sec... y'all are basically saying that a nikasil liner is crap, and that it likes to peel off aluminum cylinder walls? So why do both of my Porsches with aluminum blocks and nikasil liners show virtually no wear? One's got over 230,000 miles and shows only the lightest wear, and does not burn oil at all, the other is a turbo application with 18-21psi of boost, and 175,000 miles, and the last 20,000 or so have been accumulated on heavy track use. I've got that one apart right now and the cylinders look wonderful.
Does Kawi use some inferior type of nikasil coating or something? Seems to me that stuff is pretty much bullet-proof...
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14 | Black D&D Slip-ons | Speedo Healer | V1 | zumo 550 | Heli-Risers | PhantomX
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zxlnt
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted June 09, 2006 07:40 AM
If someone is saying Niksil is crap then I dont think they are that knowledgeable on it. Its been around since like the mid late 80's I think. First I heard of it was in dirtbike cylinders. Proven technology....
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted June 09, 2006 08:24 PM
Hey vak, You're in NYC right? Wanna get your bike tuned? Are you willing to pull the secondaries & let me tune it & post results? I will do it for nothing! No charge! Let me know I'm not far from you. I'm on L.I.
I can tune like a sunamabitch!!! We could get you some nice results! You have a PC in hand right now? Let me know. I've got 2 bikes scheduled for tommorrow but if you want to come out I'll work w/ya.
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted June 09, 2006 11:46 PM
Hey thats a cool deal Vak...
Go for it ... we know your bike is broken in already .... we saw the vids! 
I'd jump all over that deal!
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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speedgene
Zone Head
Posts: 996
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posted June 10, 2006 12:59 AM
Edited By: speedgene on 10 Jun 2006 02:00
I'm too happy to have Nikisil cylinders. In fact, I went far and beyond protecting the Nikisil layer. I'm over filtered! Think my bike will still have compression miles down the road? That's what I'm trying to preserve by doing this from day one.
Go ahead, run what you want. Let all that grit come in and make a few lines for compression to leak from. Get enough lines or one good deep scratch, and let me know if running a more breathable filter was worth it?
Only other cylinder wall preservation I can try to chase alone with the extra filters, is having clean oil in the engine. I see two attacks; one is to stop as much grit on the intake side. The other cylinder wall line cutting... is oil contamination. "Splash" is how the pistons are cooled/lubed. This oil flings from the throws of the crank, plus the oil coming out the big end of the rod.
Here's what I see causes the second wall cutting; the piston skirt is the hammer. The skirt slaps going up, as well as coming down. Say a contaminate like a bearing insert disintegrates. You get this metal in between the skirt and the wall, and the skirt on the slap side, hammers the debris "into" the wall, and then continues to walk up (or down) the cylinder, increasing the line on the cylinder wall.
I have little down time if I order a fresh case. If the cylinder wall is hurt say; a wrist pin clip dislodging and digging a really deep line where the case would need to be bored to clean the line out. What then? There are no 1st over pistons for the 14.
Therefore, the 2nd (pre) filtering set-up (on my 14), service time on the OEM filter tossed early, very clean oil, no clutch abuse, and hope for the best.
I've been around Nikisil cylinders for years. They are very dependable even under motocross conditions they hold up without problems. Chipping off at the cylinder wall (ask, or search) is one variable using Nikisil.
So like I said, you go right ahead and do your air cleaner thing. I did mine.
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E-tard
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RACNRAY
Expert Class
FAST OLD GUY
Posts: 178
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posted June 12, 2006 05:51 PM
since i have machine shop facilities in my shop and i usually can't/don't wait for the aftermarket to get the goodies out,i made a free flowing filter this weekend.i just did my baseline 9/10's runs today and skoot will go on the dyno 2morrow or wednesday to establish baseline dyno runs and do a few mods,including the filter. i have the feeling i can improve on my original prototype,but i'll need to get some more filter material to start on the second filter.we'll see....
RACNRAY
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no chicken strips on this south florida boy's skoots!!
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Mano 2
Expert Class
Posts: 360
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posted June 12, 2006 06:06 PM
RACNRAY,
Well done you.
Please post me/us if/when you're done with either materials/construction, or where to get them.
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted June 18, 2006 12:29 PM
Edited By: zx1kr on 18 Jun 2006 13:33
quote:
Hey vak, You're in NYC right? Wanna get your bike tuned? Are you willing to pull the secondaries & let me tune it & post results? I will do it for nothing! No charge! Let me know I'm not far from you. I'm on L.I.
I can tune like a sunamabitch!!! We could get you some nice results! You have a PC in hand right now? Let me know. I've got 2 bikes scheduled for tommorrow but if you want to come out I'll work w/ya.
Here you go Junior! Figured I'd help you out.
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