zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted May 24, 2006 07:35 PM
Does anybody have the low-rpm Fix yet?
Picked up the 14 this morning! Unbelieveably smoooooth. Trying to take it easy (keepin it under 6500 rpm) Very happy with the overall feel of the 14 . The one issue is the VERY Soft response below 5000 rpms. It's more prominant than I expected. Any fixes out there? Does anyone know what the ECM is backing off tto create this effect?
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted May 24, 2006 08:04 PM
Ivans tre.. or just advance the timing 4 to 5 degrees everywhere
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TJ
Zone Head
Posts: 604
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posted May 24, 2006 08:15 PM
I don't think the sub-5,000 RPM "problem" is timing related. A TRE unit only eliminates timing retardation.
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted May 24, 2006 08:41 PM
Most think the ecm is keeping the secondary throttle valves from being opened completely.
Seems when the ecm is in cold (choke) mode the valves are free to do their proper job.
Hopefully someone is working on it.
I asked an electrical engineer co-worker if he could fix it.
He said yeah, but i will need the whole bike .... then laughed in evil tone!
Thanks but no thanks! 
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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Tool Man
Needs a job
Posts: 4493
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posted May 24, 2006 08:58 PM
Workin on it.
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The banks are failing..
The banks are failing...
Invest in Ammo
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted May 24, 2006 08:59 PM
Anyone with some inside Kawi info on this issue?
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted May 24, 2006 09:09 PM
If there is a fix i'm sure Muzzy or Brock will be in the case real quick ...As fast as the bikes are running i'm not really sure it's a problem ....Brock sure didn't say anything about it in his drag test.
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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vegasdude
Zone Head
Posts: 821
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posted May 24, 2006 09:20 PM
Brock did mention that he was glad that the torque was reduced down low so as to keep the bike under control. As it is now, it's a handful.
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted May 24, 2006 11:32 PM
Hand in glove with the low rpm set-up is the 186mph speed restriction.
This doesn't bother the 1/8 or 1/4 mile boys but I do top speed events and need to disable the speed limiter. I know Ivan's TRE claims to do this, on my K5 it clobbers the gear indicator too. I would dearly love to find a smart fix rather than a work-around.
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Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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EASY
Expert Class
Posts: 183
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posted May 25, 2006 03:31 AM
I would pay almost anything to eliminate that complete lack of low end torque!!!! This is a huge dissapointment to me.. In my case, 95+ % of the time it is below 5 grand. 5 grand is almost 100 mph. Having to downshift to pass anything is a pain in the ass and not a good reprensation of Kawasaki's "Flag Ship". I love the bike, but I did not buy it to have the torque of a 600. If someone does not have a fix this year, its gone.
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cls
Expert Class
Posts: 410
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posted May 25, 2006 03:51 AM
I'm w/you on that. It's not a 600, for sure, but it ain't what it should be. Low-end needs to be there for partial throttle, street riding. A fix should be here before too long.
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stan55
Expert Class
Posts: 112
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posted May 25, 2006 04:02 AM
quote:
I'm w/you on that. It's not a 600, for sure, but it ain't what it should be. Low-end needs to be there for partial throttle, street riding. A fix should be here before too long.
Check out the TRE.
All stock ZX14 VS. All Stock ZX14 w/TRE-008
http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/zx14.htm
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stan55
Expert Class
Posts: 112
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posted May 25, 2006 04:22 AM
New Product - Available Now !!
TRE-008 - $70.00
2006 ZX-14
Increases power below 6000 rpm!
Does not disable speed limiter - We will offer a separate product in the near future.
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swiftkart
Expert Class
Posts: 349
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posted May 25, 2006 07:58 AM
quote:
Most think the ecm is keeping the secondary throttle valves from being opened completely.
Seems when the ecm is in cold (choke) mode the valves are free to do their proper job.
Pull the left cover and watch the secondary valve after the bike is warmed up in neutral, you will see that it doesn't move until the rpm is above at least 4,000 so no full low end power because of the ecm controlled 2nd throttle valve.
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2006 ZX14, Brock CT-Meg, PC, ignition module, E85, 214 lbs suited, 8.96@152.32 1.46 60'
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EASY
Expert Class
Posts: 183
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posted May 25, 2006 08:05 AM
Wonder what would happen if you blocked the secondary's open?? Would you not just have a similiar system to the zx-12?? I wish someone would try this and let me know---I, sure as hell am not.
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cls
Expert Class
Posts: 410
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posted May 25, 2006 08:29 AM
Stan,
Yeh, I had Ivan's TRE on my 'Busa and liked it. I will do that on the 14, IF nobody comes out w/something better. I think a better solution will show itself before too long, though. I hope, anyway...
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted May 25, 2006 08:36 AM
quote:
Wonder what would happen if you blocked the secondary's open?? Would you not just have a similiar system to the zx-12?? I wish someone would try this and let me know---I, sure as hell am not.
Boggg!
most likely it fall on its face until enough vacuum made , then pick up.
This will take some tuning, not just a matter of disabling a limiter.... IMO
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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stan55
Expert Class
Posts: 112
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posted May 25, 2006 08:38 AM
CLS,
It's only 70 dollars and worth a try... Allot of guy's on this site are downing it, but... No one has tried it on a ZX-14. I have mine in hand just waiting for my Bike.... They are always selling out of the down here in the Wash DC..
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speedgene
Zone Head
Posts: 996
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posted May 25, 2006 11:07 AM
Oh yeah, this one is off the wall for sure. Read with caution, and find the disclaimer!!
Anyone want to try an experiment? There's an air temp sensor plugged on top of one of those entrance holes that cover the back of the frame.
Drill a hole the size of a spray tube off one of those dust-off spray cans. That's the stuff you'll want to use also to cool the temp sensor. Ever spray the dust out of your PC tower with that stuff? It can could almost give your palm, and finger frost bite if you tried to empty the can. That shit should override any hot day if you aimed the spray tube right.
You spray (chill) that air-temp sensor for a burst of rich "morning type" fuel response. Trick the ECU to run rich = cooler air 'sensed' on the temp bell. A few hits is all it takes... it has to warm back up, remember.
Devise a way to aim the spray tube at the sensor's bell. Have the spray trigger'd (somehow?) for your left thumb, somewhere up at the left handle bar?
If you want to see if this has any validity at all, pull the sensor out of the rubber plug. Make sure the bike is up to running temp, then "dust-off" the bell. See if the ECU washed your cylinders down with fuel and fouled the plugs?....(just kidding)
Maybe it's come to the point where there should be an option key mode like they have on a Vette? Turn the key to "Street Mode", and you get a (Brutal Busa Bottom End), or flip it back to the ever so smooth "Electrical Resistor Throttle Mode".... like the 14 rides now?
I'm not downing the tre. I'm all for anything that will push me the fuck away from a cager on demand, and in an instant. If the tre gets me there short of a gear change (which I really don't need to do) then it's a cheap fix for the way I ride defensively. I may or may not want to live with the hiccups that come with the tre, is all I'm saying.
Besides, I have an excuse for my lame ideas...(exhales).
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E-tard
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Stalwart
Needs a job
Posts: 3360
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posted May 25, 2006 11:15 AM
quote:
Wonder what would happen if you blocked the secondary's open?? Would you not just have a similiar system to the zx-12?? I wish someone would try this and let me know---I, sure as hell am not.
Are the secondaries in a parallel path to the primaries or in series? If parallel, it would be like holding the throttle half way open all the time, start the engine and it would go to redline. Better yet, make a progressive linkage between the primaries and secondaries.
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Stuart
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Ridin' the Trump train.
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted May 25, 2006 11:20 AM
Salwart,
i think the secondaries are motor operated, whist the primaries are throttle operated.
Instead of using vaccuum secondary like a cv carb, the ecu is programed to operate the secondary.
This why it will not be a simple fix...
Will have burn a new secondary throttle contol program and I'm sure it involves, load(gear), speed, air temp, barometric press, throttle position, and works with the ignition curve.
Its gonna take 10 little men in white coats, and hours of dyno to get it right most likely.
I hope not but....
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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Stalwart
Needs a job
Posts: 3360
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posted May 25, 2006 11:40 AM
I understand they are motor operated but if one were to remove the motor operation and make it a progressive linkage I would think a new map for a PC could be made to work. This would require extensive dyno time or closed loop operation with the addition of an O2 sensor . . . just a thought.
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Stuart
________________________________
Ridin' the Trump train.
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VPN
Zone Head
Posts: 718
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posted May 25, 2006 11:42 AM
quote:
quote:
I'm w/you on that. It's not a 600, for sure, but it ain't what it should be. Low-end needs to be there for partial throttle, street riding. A fix should be here before too long.
Check out the TRE.
All stock ZX14 VS. All Stock ZX14 w/TRE-008
http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/zx14.htm
BUT
It's still less than what the Busa puts out
AND
what if Zuk brings out the GSX-1400R in September?
Even more low-end torque and new design to put out 202 hp (not 192)
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cls
Expert Class
Posts: 410
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posted May 25, 2006 12:56 PM
Doesn't matter much to me what Zuk brings out next year. First things, first...I'll definitely get the TRE, if nothing better shows up. I'm just giving it some time. It's only $70, but why spend it if I don't have to? I'll keep my eyes and ears open for another month or two. Maybe more before I go TRE.
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zermatt
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted May 25, 2006 02:48 PM
quote:
You spray (chill) that air-temp sensor for a burst of rich "morning type" fuel response. Trick the ECU to run rich = cooler air 'sensed' on the temp bell.
Cool theory speedgene, but I don't think the problem is only controlled by intake air temp. If it was, then it would always run hard when it was really cold outside, and it would always run limited when it was hot outside. The fact that I can hop on my bike when the ambient temp is 90F, but the bike hasn't been started all day, and still have full torque until the ECU goes out of "warm up mode" tells me that it's more of a timer than anything else. 
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14 | Black D&D Slip-ons | Speedo Healer | V1 | zumo 550 | Heli-Risers | PhantomX
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