zx61114
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted May 22, 2006 06:56 PM
Strange Sound (Help)
I fired up my 14 this afternoon and it sounded as if oil was not getting to the valves. This time the sound lasted 4-5 seconds and only stopped after a quick throttle. The sound was different from the first time I'd heard it, but she has synthetic oil in her now. The first time it was a nasty metal on metal sound, now it just sounds as if the valves were spinning without oil.
Today it was about 80 degrees F outside and the bike was still warm (the first time it was about 58 degree F and the bike was cold). It may not be a big deal but I wanted to throw it out there to see if anyone has an opinion.
Rob
2,234 miles
  
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FasterThanStink
Pro
Posts: 1218
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posted May 22, 2006 08:09 PM
I would run this problem by an experienced mechanic. Metal on metal is not good.
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suddenly becoming stationary...
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swainic
Novice Class
Posts: 57
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posted May 22, 2006 09:38 PM
Most likely it's the camchain tensioner, it doesn't quieten up until oil pressure gets to it.
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dubious
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posted May 22, 2006 10:36 PM
quote:
Most likely it's the camchain tensioner, it doesn't quieten up until oil pressure gets to it.
+1
without proper inspection .... I concurr!
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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zx61114
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted May 23, 2006 04:24 AM
SOLVED.
Happened again this morning but I listened more carefully. I'm leaning more towards Swainic's thinking that it is the Cam Chain tensioner. I had the instruments on Battery, the volts were 11.7 and although this is enough volts to start the bike it may not be enough volts to run the FI properly. It happened on my VFR as the battery was starting to die out at 48,000 miles. It had that same nasty metal on metal sound plus rattling until I throttled it up, I suspect bumping the Volts to needed # for normal operation. At any rate I feel as if I have solved this problem, and more confident there will be no ill side effects. If there are any changes I'll keep you all posted.
Rob
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fastestbusaaround
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Posts: 7889
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posted May 23, 2006 04:51 AM
Rob, the 11.7 is an arbitrary figure...the bike will start and run normally with 11 Volts...once it's running, Voltage would be up over 13.5. I serioulsy doubt that low voltage:
1) Would affect the FI system
2) That the FI system would affect your cam chain tensioner at all, no matter what....
Just my .02 cents...
Steve
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droid
Expert Class
Posts: 133
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posted May 23, 2006 05:50 AM
11 volts is not correct for a 12 volt battery, a good 12v battery should have more than 12v ( around 12.4V) Charge your battery up!!!. If you ride with lights on all the time the battery will never completely top out and as it is a NEW bike it probably hasn't seen a full charge from day one. Also with a newish engine everything is a little tighter and increases the load on the starting system. Plus anything that is electrical will draw amps from the battery so low voltage WILL affect the FI system.
Not my 2 cents just some facts
Cheers
Droid
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zx61114
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted May 23, 2006 06:33 AM
FBA, I have to disagree with volts and FI systems. I'm not going to pretend to know what's going on, I don't but I will say I know what I know. Low Voltage will do some strange things to the FI system. Slapping the Cam Chain tensioner is sometimes a result of the FI having low Voltage.
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ZX11D
Zone Head
Internet Police
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posted May 23, 2006 06:41 AM
 Edited By: ZX11D on 23 May 2006 10:03
Low voltage shall have no effect in any way on the Cam Chain Tensioner, which is hydraulically actuated by the oil from lubrication system and the Oil Pump is driven mechanically right from the end of the crankshaft.
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droid
Expert Class
Posts: 133
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posted May 23, 2006 06:46 AM
Part no 13216 isn't a crankshaft, i don't think
Just shittin ya!!
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ZX11D
Zone Head
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posted May 23, 2006 07:03 AM
Crankshaft is P/N: 13031, illustrated on added drawing above. The No. 13216 is gear and pump drive shaft.
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dubious
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posted May 23, 2006 07:10 AM
Edited By: dubious on 23 May 2006 08:12
If the idle is too low the oil pressure may not be sufficient to tighten the cam chain tensioner...... it runs off oil pressure on this bike ... remember?
This may or may not be the cause of the noise.
Can not diagnose from here... just providing some idea's where to start from.
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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ZX11D
Zone Head
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posted May 23, 2006 07:17 AM
Yes, but this would occure only for short instance at start-up.
After that, the oil pressure could stay low if the idle is set way too low or if the oil level is also too low, however, this last scenerio would become evedent very-very soon with something else going bad due to lack of lubrication. An we all know what that could be. 
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droid
Expert Class
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posted May 23, 2006 07:33 AM
What viscosity of oil is being used
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dubious
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posted May 23, 2006 07:50 AM
whatever.
we don't know what the specific flow and pressure test is for the oil pump, or what flow and pressure is necessary to pump up the tensioner do we?
I do know that when it is -40 below outside and my neighbor still has 20=50 wt oil; in his truck is squacks and squeels till the oil gets to the camshafts.
Like droid is eluding too, something is not getting oil for some reason, oil viscosity too thick, oil level too low, oil filter is plugged, oil pickup tube is not gettin oil for some reason.
Didn't offer advise to argue with anyone.....
Wonder why I bother sometimes?
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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serius blk
Zone Head
Posts: 543
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posted May 23, 2006 08:17 AM
My bike does the same thing. I think it has to do with the oil draining in to the pan and not having any thing left in the top portion of the motor. What mine does is make that same noise when its been sitting a long time. When the pressure builds it stops. It also doesnt make the noise when Ive been riding and then start the bike. Leads me to believe this may be the issue. Im thinking about putting lucas oil stabilizer in it. That way the motor will still have oil on the parts in the motor. The 10/40 isnt a thick oil at all. Im sure it drains pretty quickly back to the pan.
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surfinlate
Parking Attendant
Posts: 30
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posted May 23, 2006 08:18 AM
I wonder if there may be a market for a manual adjustable tensioner on the 14?? A.P.E. has sure sold a lot for kawi engines. Time will tell
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zx61114
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted May 23, 2006 10:20 AM
ZX11D: It does only make the noise for a short time. This morning it lasted a second or so. Yesterday it did last for 3-4 seconds a quick throttle seem to set things right. Thanks for the schematic
Droid: I use 20W-50 Ams-Oil. Does seem to keep things cool and tranny shifts smoother.
Dubious: I had the bike on its center stand when I fired her up yesterday. Oil level is slightly above 1/2. (I'll fix that this afternoon).
The more I think about it the less I'm concerned. This maybe the design, lightweight material may creep more than previous metals so this may be the norm. As long as when I Open her up she is all there well all is good. Right.
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droid
Expert Class
Posts: 133
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posted May 23, 2006 03:32 PM
Years ago i seem to remember some of the Gpzs had issues with oil around the cams if you left the bike on the sidestand?
20w-50 do you not think a little thick?? I used to put that in old ford pinto engines to stop it running down the valve guides!! And as for running cool oil temp needs to be around the 100 degrees c to keep all the condensation out of it.
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blitzkrieg
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posted May 23, 2006 04:52 PM
What is the average ambient temperature right now where you guys are running 20W50?
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D
Needs a job
Posts: 3365
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posted May 23, 2006 04:55 PM
Anyone else thinkin exhaust leak?
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aughtsix
Expert Class
Posts: 277
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posted May 23, 2006 05:11 PM
quote:
Anyone else thinkin exhaust leak?
I'm thinkin y'all are spending way too much time pondering about a sound ya ain't heard.
If it's a big enough concern, and you want it to NOT make the noise, take it to a dealer - you can be sure it'll not make the noise there...
 
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zx61114
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted May 23, 2006 05:12 PM
Right now the ambient temp in the morning is about 72-75F and during the afternoon about 92-95F. Should not get much below 68 F from now thru first week of October. In the winter I do blend 2 Qts 10W-40 and 2 Qts 20W-50, even then it does not get much below 32F but I'm aware 20W-50 is not good below 32F.
D: Exhust Leak?
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zx61114
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted May 23, 2006 05:19 PM
quote:
quote:
Anyone else thinkin exhaust leak?
If it's a big enough concern, and you want it to NOT make the noise, take it to a dealer - you can be sure it'll not make the noise there...
Great Point:
I took the bike down to the dealer to ask about the neat bug zapping sound that we hear as we turn the key. Dealer laughed at me and said, "You think your makes alot of noise you should hear the ZX10. Don't worry it's normal."
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fastestbusaaround
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I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted June 11, 2006 08:34 AM
I now have that engine knocking sound on startup...till oil gets to whatever the part is that's making that noise and it's loud too..lasts about 1-1.5 seconds on a cold start only...I'm sure it's oil related, oir lack of I mean. I am going to call my dealer and see if he's heard of anything like this before...I'm using Amzoil Race...maybe I need something like a Slick 50 additive? Does that shit do anything or is it a TRE?
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FYYFF!!!
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