ZREXER
Expert Class
Posts: 492
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posted May 08, 2006 07:07 PM
 Edited By: ZREXER on 8 May 2006 20:17
Why not 200+ HP?
Now that we seem to have allot of 'Busa owners checking out the site, a common theme from them is that they view the new '14 as only at best being maginally better than a stock 'Busa in performance.................if in fact any better.
They think Kawasaki has only marginally raised the bar in the hyper bike field and that it should have had much more power being 7 years newer in design. In fact most of us expected or at least hoped for at least 175+ rear wheel horspower from the new '14.
It is no accident in my opinion that Kawasaki decided to keep the maximum crank horsepower at under 200.
We live in a rapidly changing world where legislators at various levels of government would like nothing more than to ban our toys and save us all from ourselves. Insurance companies as well keep increasing the costs of owning top level sport bikes.
Look at the situation in France............are you interested in a 100 horsepower '14 or Busa? Think it will never happen in North America?
The aftermarket in very little development time is showing what the '14 is capable of. Brock & Muzzy are starting to show some pretty good numbers from the '14 and they have not even got inside the motor yet to any real extent.
I think Kawaski was wise not to cross the 200 HP threshold with the '14. They could have easily done it, but decided they would leave it up to owners who wanted the maximum performance the bike is capable of to go to the aftermarket.
It will be interesting if Suzuki throws caution to the wind and comes out with a new 'Busa with more than 200 HP at the crank. I think it could be a mistake and will cause the kind of government attention that none of want.
So if you want a truly stupid fast bike, the after market will be more than willing to help you with your dream.
  
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fastestbusaaround
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Posts: 7889
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posted May 08, 2006 07:19 PM
+1...yer right on the money, and the (generally arrogant) Busa guys just won't admit it...the 14 is about way more than just brute power anyway...and those of us lucky enough to own one already know that. 
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zx12mark
Pro
Posts: 1654
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posted May 08, 2006 07:34 PM
wait till the 1st gear restrictor can be bypassed.all that torque will rip rider arms out of sockets.my 12 dose that already
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Tool Man
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Posts: 4493
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posted May 08, 2006 07:37 PM
I also agree, In this day and age with Big Bro watching every street corner (in my town we have cameras on every major intersection) and insurance companies reaming us at every turn Kawi. did us a huge favor by not crossing an imaginary line in the sand. They know what is on the horizon and can see the writing on the wall. This future is not certain though and can be changed thru involvement in your political system, this forum is a great start we are 6000 members with a voice for change in our favor!!! Be involved and don't think it won't happen to us. My 
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dubious
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Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted May 08, 2006 07:44 PM
+1
Keep the  man at bay!
Its much more machine than most have respect for already!
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Y2KZX12R
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posted May 10, 2006 03:55 AM
quote:
It will be interesting if Suzuki throws caution to the wind and comes out with a new 'Busa with more than 200 HP at the crank. quote:
You can bet on it. Suzuki has been driving the market sence 99. The busa was a huge leap over the cbr 1100 xx and the gsxr 1000 was a huge leap over the R1,954,ZX9.
The new busa will be the next bench mark for some years to come.
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bigbore4
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted May 10, 2006 05:48 AM
And what makes you so sure about that? What is to stop kawasaki from trumping the ZX14 with an R model. Maybe one with the 12.7 CR and another 20 0r 30 horse?
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fastestbusaaround
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posted May 10, 2006 05:49 AM
Edited By: fastestbusaaround on 10 May 2006 06:50
Not likely at this stage...
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bigbore4
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posted May 10, 2006 06:34 AM
Not likely, but not out of the possibility. If by chance Suzuki is coming out with a revamped high horsepower bike to trump the 14, why at this point would Kawasaki sit by and watch their market share go down the drain? Kawasaki has the ability to stay on top of the food chain.
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fastestbusaaround
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posted May 10, 2006 07:10 AM
All KHI has to do is just remap the ECM to get the full potential of the bike for the street...I'm sure this is done in cases where they prep bikes for popular drag racers anyway...that in itself has huge gains over the current map...for street use. If ZUK follows the same strategy as KHI did, they would also run crippled maps...time will tell.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted May 10, 2006 07:55 AM
It has nothing to do with what is possable and all to do with what the corporation decides to do as a policy. This applies to honda as well.
Honda could deliver a 200+ hp bike. But why dont they? Its political.
Suzukis market stradigy is to make whatever bike will out sell everyone elses bike by making the most HP and all out performance in its class.
Hondas stradigy is to push a perception of quality and refinement and superior engineering and let that sell bikes.
Yamaha is all about being different and being the leader in inovation and styling.
Kawi is kinda a mix of suzuki and yamaha.
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bigbore4
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted May 10, 2006 12:34 PM
Y2KZX12R
You talk as if you are the all knowing all seeing entity. Give me a friggin break!
If you are that fucking smart, maybe you should send your cv to the Japs!
Some of you guys just blow me away with your Bullshit!
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bigbore4
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted May 10, 2006 12:35 PM
Y2KZX12R
Your a pretty smart fella, maybe you should use spell check?
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Rubber Pants
Zone Head
Posts: 798
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posted May 10, 2006 12:53 PM
quote:
Now that we seem to have allot of 'Busa owners checking out the site, a common theme from them is that they view the new '14 as only at best being maginally better than a stock 'Busa in performance.................if in fact any better.
They think Kawasaki has only marginally raised the bar in the hyper bike field and that it should have had much more power being 7 years newer in design. In fact most of us expected or at least hoped for at least 175+ rear wheel horspower from the new '14.
It is no accident in my opinion that Kawasaki decided to keep the maximum crank horsepower at under 200.
We live in a rapidly changing world where legislators at various levels of government would like nothing more than to ban our toys and save us all from ourselves. Insurance companies as well keep increasing the costs of owning top level sport bikes.
Look at the situation in France............are you interested in a 100 horsepower '14 or Busa? Think it will never happen in North America?
The aftermarket in very little development time is showing what the '14 is capable of. Brock & Muzzy are starting to show some pretty good numbers from the '14 and they have not even got inside the motor yet to any real extent.
I think Kawaski was wise not to cross the 200 HP threshold with the '14. They could have easily done it, but decided they would leave it up to owners who wanted the maximum performance the bike is capable of to go to the aftermarket.
It will be interesting if Suzuki throws caution to the wind and comes out with a new 'Busa with more than 200 HP at the crank. I think it could be a mistake and will cause the kind of government attention that none of want.
So if you want a truly stupid fast bike, the after market will be more than willing to help you with your dream.
A Pipe / Power Commander and a good tuner, rear wheel HP is a dambed close 197 HP as far as I know. There would be mayhem if they produced that from the factory! They really did in a different way unlike the Busa! I tried with a pipe / Power Commander and could barley muster 170 HP outta my 99 Busa!
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fastestbusaaround
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I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted May 10, 2006 03:16 PM
quote:
It has nothing to do with what is possable and all to do with what the corporation decides to do as a policy. This applies to honda as well.
Honda could deliver a 200+ hp bike. But why dont they? Its political.
Suzukis market stradigy is to make whatever bike will out sell everyone elses bike by making the most HP and all out performance in its class.
Hondas stradigy is to push a perception of quality and refinement and superior engineering and let that sell bikes.
Yamaha is all about being different and being the leader in inovation and styling.
Kawi is kinda a mix of suzuki and yamaha.
You are in the know about this how exactly? Don't get me wrong and I'm not trying to be ignorant but, I'm curious how you know what the corporate policies are of each of these companies...have you worked for them or have you read public statements to this effect or, are you basing this on what you perceive to be fact regarding the Busa VS the 14 and making assumptions? Please show me some backup for your statements...
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vegasdude
Zone Head
Posts: 821
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posted May 10, 2006 05:02 PM
Edited By: vegasdude on 10 May 2006 18:06
NAh,. The new Z06 just came out with 505 hp and it's underrated. The blue devil is coming out in 08 with 675 HP and it will be underrated. Fast vehicles are here my friend not to mention other cars. Make the horsepower and underrate them on the spec sheets and everyone wins...............They did this in the 60's and 70's too...................I think that if they did 200 hp it would be way more expensive and drive the cost up and therefore out of a lot of peoples hands. Their goal is to sell alot of bikes not to sell a few.........................Remember this is a business. The reason the Z06 has taken the world by storm is the performance vs the price. While still expensive at 75,000 or so compared to other cars that can keep up with it costs 100,000 more...........................speed cost money, but Corvette found a way to have both AND beat the gas guzzler tax. That's americans for you!!
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Y2KZX12R
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posted May 10, 2006 05:54 PM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 11 May 2006 03:01
fastestbusaaround, The topic of this thread is "Why not 200+ HP?" So i posted why i think they dont make 200 hp from the factory.
Its my perception of what i've seen the manufacturers put out over the years. I call things the way i see them and I'm not brand loyal at all. I've owned them all and will be the first to say what i like and dont like about each bike and brand i've owned and worked on. I'm just typing my point of view thats all. Take it or leave it. Just a point of view.
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bigbore4
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted May 10, 2006 06:44 PM
Y2KZX12R
I guess I do owe you an apology. I'm sorry. To many beers talkin.
I don't have many posts on this board, but believe it or not, I have built many engines.
Allison 250's, Lycoming 360's but most of all , numerous Big and Small block chevy's. Not your milk toast stuff, but Donovan big inch alloy stuff.
Once again, I apologize for any insult. Tryin to knock this crap on the head, does nothin but get me in trouble and give me a headache anyway.
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fastestbusaaround
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I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted May 10, 2006 06:50 PM
Getting 200+ hp from this motor would start gettin tough...the larger the displacement gets...the tougher it becomes to make those high rev's. They would have needed a whole new motor to do that, which is not the case from what I understand...IMO, they need 2 more cylinders to keep the rev's up and still get more power...my
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Y2KZX12R
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posted May 11, 2006 02:08 AM
Yea true, they would have to redesign the package as a whole to get to 200 HP. 6 cylinders of the same displacement would be easier to get 200 hp from. Look at the 600's. if you doubled those and made a V8 it could be 200-220 hp with 1200 cc. But the cost would be alot more than a 4 cyl.
If this "arms race" continues without government intervention we may see bikes like this in several years.
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