dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted April 30, 2006 06:44 AM
A reply to engine heat
running the fan without the engine only cools the rad and fluid in it.
Coolant is not circulating.
Seems pointless to me.
aftermarket pipe or cans even will allow the engine to run cooler, and dissipate the heat bettter than the cat converters which are stuffing up the motor and causing heat to be retained along with back pressure, right near your ankles?
Fuel mileage should increase too!
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
  
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Stalwart
Needs a job
Posts: 3360
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posted April 30, 2006 06:59 AM
quote:
running the fan without the engine only cools the rad and fluid in it.
Coolant is not circulating.
Seems pointless to me.
Nope, since the thermostat is open, coolant will continue to circulate through convection. There are some low rpm diesel engines that use convection as a means to circulate coolant, since the 14 is shut-off, it isn't making any additional heat making convective circulation actually work.
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Stuart
________________________________
Ridin' the Trump train.
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sauerkraut
Parking Attendant
Posts: 1
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posted April 30, 2006 07:16 AM
The fans on my bike will run after the engine is shut off if it needs it. Automatically. My ZX-10 back in '89 did it as well.
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zxlnt
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted April 30, 2006 08:40 AM
Pretty much all liquid cooled Ninja did that, my 85 900 Ninja did the same thing...
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted April 30, 2006 10:20 AM
quote:
aftermarket pipe or cans even will allow the engine to run cooler, and dissipate the heat bettter than the cat converters which are stuffing up the motor and causing heat to be retained along with back pressure, right near your ankles?
Fuel mileage should increase too!
you might wanna talk to a real pipe designer before saying all that again.
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zermatt
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted April 30, 2006 11:47 AM
 Edited By: zermatt on 30 Apr 2006 12:48
quote:
running the fan without the engine only cools the rad and fluid in it.
Coolant is not circulating.
Seems pointless to me.
Sure, pointless if you don't start the engine to circulate all that cooler fluid into the engine after doing it.
Pretty simple really... on a gas stop: Turn the bike off, open filler lid, put key back in ignition and turn to on so the fan will run. After filling and closing the filler, paying, etc, simply start the engine for about 20 seconds to circulate that cooler fluid into the engine and watch the temp go down by a bar or two. It makes a significant difference, and is a common procedure for anyone who has lived in a hot climate with a vehicle that runs warm. I do the same thing with my track cars in the summer, but with the hood open too.
Dealing with heat is likely not a big deal up in Alberta, eh? 
____________
'06 Passion Red ZX-14 | Black D&D Slip-ons | Speedo Healer | V1 | zumo 550 | Heli-Risers | PhantomX
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havabusa12r
Expert Class
Posts: 425
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posted April 30, 2006 03:03 PM
Bikes are still more 'air' than liquid cooled, they actually need to be in motion.
How come you can sit in your car with the A/C running at a LOOOOONG light and not have the temp gauge move up?
You stop your bike that was just fine out on the highway and you can hear the bacon sizzilng.
On the 14, what turns the fan(s) on? Is it a fan switch, or the ECU?
____________
(68 Yam 175 2-stroke)
(99 Copper Busa) (99 Duc 900 SS full fairing) (00 MV Agusta F4S) (02 Aprilia RSV Mille) (02 ZX 12r CTB) (03 KTM 950 Adv)
(04 Yam R1) (05 LE Busa) (07 ZX 14)
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spalding12
Novice Class
Posts: 40
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posted April 30, 2006 03:15 PM
quote:
On the 14, what turns the fan(s) on? Is it a fan switch, or the ECU?
there is a temp probe in the motor that relays a signal to the ECU... which turns on/off the fan
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Drowland
Zone Head
Posts: 733
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posted April 30, 2006 03:52 PM
There is room for a larger fan or maybe 2 fans? I haven't seen a problem yet but I don't ride in the city..
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted April 30, 2006 03:54 PM
quote:
There is room for a larger fan or maybe 2 fans? I haven't seen a problem yet but I don't ride in the city..
Muzzy make an alum fan ...it's said to run cooler with his fan ...Busa use it and it seems to work for them....
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted April 30, 2006 05:34 PM
The heat issue is bad I'm afraid...I did 400 miles today in 73 degree heat. Here are my observations:
At speeds over 50, no real heat except a light warmish breeze from the George Foreman grills grazing over the kness...but sitting in traffic or travelling at speeds of say 25...wow, this beast runs fucking hot and it's the heat coming from the fan pushing it out at the rider through the bottom side openings...worse on the left side, but bad on both anyway. It's worse than my 10R. Only thing worse is the R1. A larger or 2nd fan won't help either IMO...since it's the heat coming from the fan that's exhausting onto the rider's legs. It's a design issue and I don't see a fix. If you reverse the fan and push the air out instead of pulling it in that might work, but you can't do it while in motion...
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FYYFF!!!
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zx61114
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted April 30, 2006 05:56 PM
FBA, When in Vegas was the heat an issue? I know the Daytona 14's there was no real heating problem. I made sure I sat in traffic for a long time to confirm this, 80 F outside temp. Dammit I wish like hell I'd of bought that spec bike in Daytona in March. I know what I remember and I suspect you did not have a heating problem in Vegas either. I'll bet EPA required a higher thermostat. I remember some heat making around the Foreman grill between 40 and 50 mph but at standstill and lower speeds non-dah I mean no Heat. Hopefully I will find out for sure later this week.
Rob
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted April 30, 2006 06:08 PM
I wasn't in Vegas, but would ask those who were if they sat in traffic or rode at 25 in traffic. I doubt that this issue is unique to my bike. Now remember also, I mentioned that the heat was a result of the fan, so either they weren't running the fan, which I doubt, or they may have been runing the fan at lower temps or, the fan was running in reverse in neutral (doubt that too).
____________
FYYFF!!!
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted April 30, 2006 06:08 PM
quote:
running the fan without the engine only cools the rad and fluid in it.
Coolant is not circulating.
Seems pointless to me.
aftermarket pipe or cans even will allow the engine to run cooler, and dissipate the heat bettter than the cat converters which are stuffing up the motor and causing heat to be retained along with back pressure, right near your ankles?
Fuel mileage should increase too!
Hey Dubious, long time no hear buddy...you get yer ride yet?
____________
FYYFF!!!
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zx61114
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted April 30, 2006 06:29 PM
FBA, Sorry bout that, I'm not sure if the fan was running in Daytona, I suspect it was but I can't remember. Hey I'll know in a week...Dam dealer says NEXT WEEK, like I've never heard that one before...Sorry venting You Know
Rob
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted May 01, 2006 01:01 AM
If you fit a free flowing aftermarket exhaust and don't sort out the fuelling the bike will probably run lean. That means hotter, so be warned.
____________
Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted May 01, 2006 05:35 AM
Yup...I know that...but the real issue is more the fan putting out the heat, not the actual heat coming off the engine...
ZX, I'd be curious to know from you whether the Daytona bikes were really running cooler than the one you'll be getting...please keep up posted and hopfully you'll be getting your's soon!
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FYYFF!!!
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swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
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posted May 01, 2006 05:43 AM
Well...if you pulled two plugs, the bike would prolly run cooler... 
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted May 01, 2006 07:19 AM
quote:
quote:
aftermarket pipe or cans even will allow the engine to run cooler, and dissipate the heat bettter than the cat converters which are stuffing up the motor and causing heat to be retained along with back pressure, right near your ankles?
Fuel mileage should increase too!
you might wanna talk to a real pipe designer before saying all that again.
Sorry I can see how this could be mis-interpreted.
the cat doesn't increase back pressure?
The restriction of exhaust flow and heat build up upstream of the exhaust cans does not retain heat?
The mid pipe right under your feet does not get hot from the heat and back pressure created by the cat?
If a full exhaust allows the engine to build more power, thus making it more efficient, fuel mileage does not improve?
And yes lean jetting will make an engine run hotter.
I've driven 18 to 30 wheelers, cats 475 - 600 , cummins 460 to 600 , and detroits 430 and 500, in general though convection is not the ideal way to cool an engine, unless the engine is designed for convection, circulation is limited, and push starting a 1352 cc bike might overheat you, as well as be a little embarrasing.
After a hard run, idle around at speed to cool her off.
Jeez youd think I was busa 4300, jimp, or pilgrim.
like piranah around here.
ohhhh hope i spelled aveerytin rite, next youl jimp me for that!
you dudes need to relax.
FBA, yup I bought a GSXR1000, been lurkin around to see how everyone likes the zx14.
Great ......brakes, tranny, clutch, handling........?
Poor... fuel warning on dash, heat, long reach to bars ....?
any other gripes?
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
|
frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted May 01, 2006 07:41 AM
quote:
the cat doesn't increase back pressure?
not from what i understand, or insignificant back pressure if anything.
quote:
If a full exhaust allows the engine to build more power, thus making it more efficient, fuel mileage does not improve?
in my experience, raising the power capability of an engine almost always makes it less fuel efficient, even when you're not using that extra power (which is almost always). diesels is the only case where i regularly hear of improved mileage from a more free flowing exhaust.
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scificanada
Expert Class
Posts: 411
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posted May 01, 2006 08:15 AM
OK, I am supposed to get mine on Thursday this week (Toronto) and no doubt this monster makes heat.
I had an 83 Gpz 1100 that you could cook bacon on, and my GSXR 11 used to get the gas tank boiling...
Bottom line, Horse Power = Heat
Want a cold ride, next winter we'll head out on our sleds. 
Regardless of the heat, I am itcing to get my ride.
Thanks to the webmaster for setting up this forum as I have been checking it out daily so when thusday arrives I know what to look for and look out for,
Later
____________
Be a predator, not prey.
2006 Blue(the fastest colour) ZX14, Brock Ti Gen 3, Secondary Butterflies out, PCIII with Brock Map, Muzzy Frame Sliders.
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scificanada
Expert Class
Posts: 411
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posted May 01, 2006 08:15 AM
OK, I am supposed to get mine on Thursday this week (Toronto) and no doubt this monster makes heat.
I had an 83 Gpz 1100 that you could cook bacon on, and my GSXR 11 used to get the gas tank boiling...
Bottom line, Horse Power = Heat
Want a cold ride, next winter we'll head out on our sleds.
Regardless of the heat, I am itcing to get my ride.
Thanks to the webmaster for setting up this forum as I have been checking it out daily so when thusday arrives I know what to look for and look out for,
Later
____________
Be a predator, not prey.
2006 Blue(the fastest colour) ZX14, Brock Ti Gen 3, Secondary Butterflies out, PCIII with Brock Map, Muzzy Frame Sliders.
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted May 01, 2006 08:39 AM
They all product lots of heat; it's how the heat vents as not to make the rider uncomfortable. Busa is a perfect example; lots of heat, never gets to the rider = cool riding!
____________
FYYFF!!!
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted May 01, 2006 08:40 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
aftermarket pipe or cans even will allow the engine to run cooler, and dissipate the heat bettter than the cat converters which are stuffing up the motor and causing heat to be retained along with back pressure, right near your ankles?
Fuel mileage should increase too!
you might wanna talk to a real pipe designer before saying all that again.
Sorry I can see how this could be mis-interpreted.
the cat doesn't increase back pressure?
The restriction of exhaust flow and heat build up upstream of the exhaust cans does not retain heat?
The mid pipe right under your feet does not get hot from the heat and back pressure created by the cat?
If a full exhaust allows the engine to build more power, thus making it more efficient, fuel mileage does not improve?
And yes lean jetting will make an engine run hotter.
I've driven 18 to 30 wheelers, cats 475 - 600 , cummins 460 to 600 , and detroits 430 and 500, in general though convection is not the ideal way to cool an engine, unless the engine is designed for convection, circulation is limited, and push starting a 1352 cc bike might overheat you, as well as be a little embarrasing.
After a hard run, idle around at speed to cool her off.
Jeez youd think I was busa 4300, jimp, or pilgrim.
like piranah around here.
ohhhh hope i spelled aveerytin rite, next youl jimp me for that!
you dudes need to relax.
FBA, yup I bought a GSXR1000, been lurkin around to see how everyone likes the zx14.
Great ......brakes, tranny, clutch, handling........?
Poor... fuel warning on dash, heat, long reach to bars ....?
any other gripes?
Congrats on yer new purchase bud...that's a serious ride ya got there! I'm sure you'll enjoy the shit outta her.
____________
FYYFF!!!
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