trenace
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posted July 23, 2005 08:43 PM
Street licensing a KX450F?
I'm not at all sure that I am going to spend the money but I've been thinking of either of probably two things;
1) KLX300 licensed for the street and supermoto'd, main purpose to be able to ride on various limerock and dirt roads, but also hopefully to be a fun bike at the gokart track. Looking at used for this idea. Some used KLX300's are already titled and plated, others aren't. Or,
2) The new KX450F, ditto.
There are outfits that sell kits to make bikes like this street legal at least so far as lights, turn signals etc.
Question is, on installing such kits is it something definitely doable to go get plates, little to no risk of being refused if adequate equipment is installed?
Or is the bike not having been manufactured to be a street bike, something that can fuck up the whole deal?
I live in Florida, if that makes a difference.
Thanks!
  
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frEEk
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posted July 24, 2005 12:53 PM
granted i'm not in florida but... i dont think u'll ahve a problem. generally as long as a vehicle meets the vehicle act & regulations it can be licensed. the original manufacturer's target has little to do with it. oh, u may have to change the tires to get it st legal too. alot of knobbies are not dot
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trenace
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posted July 24, 2005 04:30 PM
Thanks, frEEK! Much appreciated.
It's something I don't fully understand for sure.
On the one hand, the chopper guys can build whatever, and get plates for them.
And it does seem that as you say, the dual purpose guys can, and maybe dirt as well in many cases.
But on the other hand, when it comes to imported bikes not manufactured to US spec, for some reason apparently you can get screwed.
So I don't understand why it's different for a dirt bike never intended for the street than for the imported street bike never intended for the American street... but I trust you are correct, thank you!
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junior s
Pro
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posted July 24, 2005 07:11 PM
If you need to change the tires to get DOT approval , you may want to try the Pirelli MT21 's . I got a couple of sets for my KLR because they are (accoding to the Pirelli website ) DOT legal . Then I got them here - I live in Canada - and saw the stamp " DOT legal for U.S. only ". I doubt the cops will ever think to look at my bike for that and after trying the rear only so far they seem to be excellent in the dirt .
____________
Get up off your ass and ride !!
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trenace
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posted July 24, 2005 09:30 PM
Thanks!
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silkywilson
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posted October 26, 2005 07:29 PM
Tren ive been going over this on my own as well CRF450 though I belive this is the deal worst case scenario get a built from parts title, same as choppers use when custom built.. and they shouldent be able to deny you as long as you have all street legal things I belive brake light, horn, head light, and DOT tires.. I do know they come with an original title that says NO FOR ROAD USE OFFROAD ONLY, so going to DMV with that in hand and saying its street legal might be tough as with anything in FL it depends on the actual person you talk to.. its all iffy at best... if you find out anything more solid please let me know.. where abouts in FL are you BTW? Ft. Myers here..
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trenace
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posted October 26, 2005 08:03 PM
 Edited By: trenace on 26 Oct 2005 21:37
Thanks Silky! BTW, glad to see you made it over here from the land of controlled-thought and speech! Neither Jere nor I are welcome there: Evans instructed me to never post there again (though falsely denied having done so) and with Jere went further, formally banning him and blocking his log-in (after posting that it was a lie that he was banned.) Basically on account of Evans wanting to be able to post his soft-on-the-War-on-Terror, America-brought-on-terrorism-by-"interfering"-and-should-stop opinions while prohibiting differing views, also prohibiting discussion of anything regarding America's relations with the world (except by him) while encouraging discussion of matters of every other country including Canada. However this is a great place to be regardless! Got forced into a good thing basically!
Actually what I wound up doing was getting a KTM 525 SMR with out of state title and tag. It should be no problem once I get electrics on it, which was delayed from being sent a wrong wiring harness, only got the right one a couple weeks ago, so hopefully I'll be bringing it to DMV pretty shortly. From what they said they just want to look at the odometer but I figure that lack of headlights, taillight etc could introduce a problem so I'm wanting those on there. The back of the bike did have a big sticker saying for offroad use only but seeing as it got a tag out of state hopefully I won't have a problem. They did run something or other on it and said I was OK, only lacking the odometer check.
In Ocala here. Did you do OK with the hurricane?
I went with the KTM on account of it already being supermoto'd whereas with the KX450F I'd have to get all that worked out, plus the fact of the KTM already having a tag.
I may need to take your advice as treating a bike as built from parts though on a future project.
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bigsaint
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posted October 26, 2005 10:00 PM
Hey Tren, got any ride reports on the Katoom ? You must have snuck out atleast once for a short ride ??
I just picked up a new on the shoowroom floor 2002 380SX from my local dealer. Thinking about turning it into a short distance SM for the 2 stroke kid in me  . For now it will be a MX track bike with some ice racing to hold me over.
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trenace
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posted October 27, 2005 10:30 AM
Hi Saint!
No! There is no excuse for me. It was one thing not having the right harness and being held up on that. But I got the replacement a couple weeks ago, maybe even three weeks or at least going on it, and did nothing. I guess what happened was I lost my momentum.
Worse, I didn't even check the new harness... and it's wrong too. Different than the first but still does not plug into any of the other wiring parts, just doesn't match up at all. I guess I am going to have to return it and wire my own -- either that or the other parts are the wrong ones but that's getting too frustrating. The other parts I figure I could at least make work by making my own main harness.
You would think someone would have sneaked it out but I did not. I guess I am arbitrary though I would rather not be -- laws or regulations that are of the sort that I don't even think those writing the law obey them themselves and don't expect the public to do so rigorously (e.g., actually one of very few examples, speed laws) I have no problem "just using best judgment," but most I take really seriously, and operating a completely-non-legal vehicle on the street is one of them.
Now it might not be "completely non-legal" being tagged in another state... but if I were a cop, and a guy with a Florida license were riding a KTM with an out-of-state plate and no title in his name, no registration, that looks absolutely (to the untrained in that regard eye) like a dirt bike with absolutely no headlight, no taillight, no turn signals, nothing, to me that would look like a HUGE violation, just flagrant disrespect for the law.
Basically I've been a complete loser so far with it... gotta get on track and get it going!
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bigsaint
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posted October 27, 2005 01:42 PM
10-4 buddy, I hear ya.
Does the bike come with the extra wire on the stator for lights ? I know it does not on my sx.
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trenace
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posted October 28, 2005 03:24 PM
Edited By: trenace on 28 Oct 2005 16:27
Nope, and I didn't buy the stator kit.
The plan on giving it a headlight was to use this aftermarket little HID light and just run off a LiPoly battery, good for a couple hours.
Actually with black housing though (not that the housing will be much visible.) It's very small, I could check the diameter if needed as I don't remember exactly, but it's around 2 inches or even less and very light, under 1 lb I think.
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bigsaint
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posted October 28, 2005 05:28 PM
Trail-tech. Funny, I was thinking of using the same light if I SM the 380. Tren, are those lights rated at 75w of equivalent light each or per pair. The website is kinda vague. I realize that they draw 13w each, still trying to figure what the single light output ???
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frEEk
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posted October 28, 2005 06:21 PM
hot damn i'd love to put those lights on my street fighter. cept i'm skeptical about the HID claims. where is the ballast? have they really managed to fit that huge transformer doohicky all other HID systems use into tha ttiny little box on the chord? besides that's i'd wonder what the beam pattern is. i'm guessing it's just a natural round patter like househodl lights, not shaped like street headlights (not that my current halogen offroad lights are).
be tempted to get a pair of floods and a paid of spots for low & high beam.
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bigsaint
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posted October 28, 2005 06:58 PM
I have the same concerns frEEk. I'd love to fab up a dual light set up with a single spot and a single flood but I'm not sure how they perform.
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trenace
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posted October 28, 2005 07:06 PM
Edited By: trenace on 28 Oct 2005 20:07
frEEK and Saint, I haven't run it on a bike yet but on a dark night taking it outside I was pretty impressed. It is a round or at least rounder pattern though.
This pic from the company that sells them is not so great, being just against a garage door, but here's a comparison pic of two of the smaller lights (which is the type I have ) vs 60 watts if stock lighting from an LTZ440, whatever that is, some type of ATV I guess;
They also have a bigger (yet still pretty small) light with external ballast that appears superbright -- this comparison is dual vs dual, 60 watt vs 60 watt:
Might fry the retinas of oncoming drivers though.
However I don't expect to ride the KTM at night, and I'm not using the bigger light.
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fish_antlers
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posted October 29, 2005 06:10 AM
couldnt pay me to run an HID lamp on a bike. give me a good old lightbulb that I can buy at any gas station or troubleshoot if there's a prob.
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trenace
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posted October 29, 2005 12:05 PM
Running two of the little ones, they're two totally independent lights so it seems to me there's redundancy and thus no risk of getting stuck out in the dark with no lights. (I expect to run two of the little ones on the 12 after the race upper cowl comes in.)
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frEEk
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posted October 29, 2005 12:24 PM
where'd u find info on the bigger set? i coudl only see the tiny ones or the big 8" unit.
either way, ui'm nto sure i'd want to use them for the st with that pattern. to avoid completely blinding oncoming traffic u'd have to point them downwards quite a bit, which means u have a huge amount fo foreground light, which tends to blind yourself to objects farther down the road which is what u'r really looking for. paybe a simple top cover would fix the problem, but that seems mighty wasteful.
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frEEk
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posted October 29, 2005 12:37 PM
nm, i foudn them under ATVs. not available yet anyway loosk like  if they only had a better beam pattern i'd defintiely be into throwing 2 or 4 of those on a street fighter.
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trenace
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posted October 29, 2005 12:51 PM
Edited By: trenace on 29 Oct 2005 14:04
I think the website is not up to date... when I corresponded with this company a couple of months ago and bought the smaller ones (by the way, EXCELLENT customer service), I had the impression the larger (but stil fairly small, the 30 watt each) ones were available then. I could have had the wrong impression though. It was just that I asked the dimensions and explained how I was trying to decide between the two and what my criteria were, and they gave the dimensions and said nothing about "but it's not available."
I'm really not sure what I'll find on the "blinding" issue. Actually the way I expect to be installing them on the 12 will largely take care of that I think -- under the fairing, back alongside and outside of the fork tubes. The nose of the fairing would then block light from the upper part of the lights from going upwards at all, while light from the lower parts could go upwards at only a slight angle. That alone might solve it.
Another idea as that while I'd long known that red light was "night vision friendly," I only recently learned that green light is considered "night vision friendly" as well. So one would think the problem wavelength is blue light. (Hmm, maybe that explains why many drivers so much hate other vehicles having HID's.) Possibly I could put yellow filters on the lights and then they would not be perceived as having a particularly glaring effect while still being quite bright from the standpoint of illumination. An idea anyway. But hopefully the shielding effect of the fairing alone will be all that's needed.
As for the KTM, it won't be ridden at night anyway so I'm not worried about the pattern there, and I could just point it whatever slight angle downwards that gives the "correct" brightness to oncoming traffic.
I am not really sure if the "brilliant foreground" problem you discuss with having the lights pointed so as not to be glaring to oncoming traffic will really prove an issue. It certainly seems possible, but my experimentation at night hand-held had me thinking probably not. The reason is that the pattern also tends to throw far less light down very low (sharply angled low) than a conventional light. A conventional headlight really puts a ton of light in the patch shortly in front of you as well as off to the sides at a pretty wide angle, much more than necessary, and much more than this light does (the smaller one in the "flood" pattern, which actually is much tighter than a conventional headlight.) So, with the little HID light angled so the top edge of the bright part is reaching the horizon but not really reaching up to drivers' eyes, it seemed to me that the foreground was not more brilliantly lit than with a conventional headlight. However, hand-held is surely not the best test of how it would perform on the road, so I take that as being only indicative not conclusive by any means.
Actually I had a hard time deciding between flood and spot patterns (as noted, the flood is already much narrower than a stock headlight.) The spot pattern indeed would have a sharper cutoff between illuminating road at the horizon and going above that to drivers' eyes.. but on the flip side, if pointed into a drivers' eyes, the same energy put into 1/4 or so the area would mean that it would probably be just incredibly brilliant, much worse than if the flood pattern happened to reach his eyes, so I went with the flood, especially as it was already tighter than stock.
I am actually thinking though of mounting a single spot light onto a spare helmet for night riding, or carrying it in the tail so I could put it on whenever desired... it could improve speeds at night quite a bit to have an aim-wherever-you-want brilliant spotlight, and also could enable flicking the main HID's off for oncoming traffic while pointing the helmet light well low, though that would not be the main purpose.
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frEEk
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posted October 29, 2005 01:12 PM
regarding blinding, i suspect mounting them under the fairing will probably take care of that as u suggested, especialyl if it is a few inches back. ncie thing about that is the light shoudl reflect off the painted surface (or even mirror it!) and help light the road isntead of just being lost light.
in my case i just have the standard household style halogen bulbs in an offroad fairing (think UFO, Ascerbis) so there is no such shading going on. i have never had someone flash their lights at me day or night, but they are aimed downward quite a lot, hense the issue of too much foreground. with your setup of the hot spot aimed towards the horizon (as it should be) i agree the foreground light shoudlnt be an issue. i'd tend to choose the flood pattern based on what you described too. a couple of the 30W HID floods with good shading should make for excellent light.
be interested to hear what results you come up with, and maybe a pic ot the light pattern against a wall?
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trenace
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posted October 29, 2005 01:32 PM
OK, I will try to do that once the race fairing comes in and I install them, and get a camera. It would be a temporary-condition pic because I'll need to send the fairing off to crashtech for painting but would give the idea.
Or with the KTM, actually it's really independent of the wiring harness problem anyway as it's being done as a totally independent system. I still need to check with the company selling the conversion parts to see if the answer may not be that EVERYTHING ELSE is the wrong part... e.g. the rear subharness is the wrong part, the turn signals are the wrong part, and so forth, as the explanation to why nothing and I mean nothing plugs into the harness. Basically give one last chance to getting parts that work with other before taking on the task of making a harness from scratch. However, the headlight is totally independent of that, and so I ought to make it a project to get at least the KTM headlight going this week.
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bigsaint
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posted October 29, 2005 07:09 PM
Good info. Thanks frEEk and Tren.
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bigsaint
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posted December 05, 2005 08:16 PM
GOT BUBBA ?
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bigsaint
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posted December 11, 2005 08:34 PM
X 2 now 
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