posted March 01, 2003 08:18 PM
no.
____________
To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
posted March 02, 2003 12:47 AM
No I won't trade my 12 for the ZX10
____________
To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
posted March 02, 2003 10:32 AM
Kawasaki must earn my purchase. When the bike comes out if it is what it should be yes. Otherwise no. I have no intentions of buying it because they tried or it has a lovely personality. Build a rompin stompin whip ass road racer and I'll buy it. Kawi owes us what Suzuki did to the market with the GSXR1000. Anything less is BS
____________
To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
posted March 02, 2003 11:39 AM
For now I won't trade my 12, like my ZX-11, I had both a 11 and a 12 for over two years. I may have to have a 12 and a 10. But let's see the product first.
posted March 14, 2003 03:46 PM
I can't afford both. Altho I love my 12R, I'll be trading it in on something. -ZXtra
____________
The sixth sick sheik's sixth sheep's sick!
posted March 26, 2003 05:43 PM
Before you go forward with any trade plans, I just found something out that really upset me. Suzuki, though making the GSX-R1000 stronger and lighter for 2003 has modified the gearing so that the bike tops out at 178 mph in 6th gear. This is obviously a move to keep the 1000cc from out pacing its bigger brother. The ZX-12R is the ultimate sportsbike from Kawasaki. To protect the ZX-12R from its smaller next of kin, I'd imagine Kawasaki is going to do some fooling around with the bike to keep it "slower" as well (keep in mind that now Kawasaki and Suzuki are working together).
This probably doesn't present much of a problem for most of you. You're probaby thinking "I'd just swap to some different sprokets and away I'd go". Your right, but why should we have to do anything to our bikes to unlock their full potential? Shouldn't the manufacturers be doing that? Isn't that what we're paying for?
With Suzuki and Kawasaki in bed together how could Suzuki de-gear the Gixxer to below 180 mph and Kawasaki introduce a full 180+ mph ZX-10R? I don't think it's going to happen. Someone would end up sleeping on the "couch" as it were. An even better question is how can the sportbike industry introduce 180+ mph liter bikes with the top speed being limited to 186 mph?
The company in the best position to rock the boat is Yamaha. Where Honda has the Blackbird, Suzuki has the Hayabusa and Kawasaki has the ZX-12R, Yamaha has no larger-than-liter-class bike. If I were Yamaha I'd work on the YZF-R1 to the point where it was a 186 mph bike and force Suzuki and Kawasaki to betray their Hayabusa and ZX-12R owners by speeding their liter class bikes up to the limit.
Probably won't happen, but boy it would be interesting.
posted March 30, 2003 06:37 PM
zx10 I just don't think a speed limit is going to be the issue when choosing a bike in years to come. Anything capable of doing 178mph or 186mph depending on whether it a liter bike or not has the potential for more. The manufactures are producing speed limited bikes in an effort to not be forced regulatory restrictions by the governing bodies(government). Each of the manufactures already knows that whatever sells will either be used/operated in it's stock form or modified to meet individual needs. So they work on manufacturing a limited production top seller high competitive line and making it easy to unlock it's full potential. In this method they also leave lots of business for aftermarket companies to make a living in order to take partial blame. I'm sure we all hear it "that 600 couldn't of crashed if it wasn't modified to do 160mph!" Anyone buying these types of bikes is never satisfing with there stock form. Hell, even after spending $10K~$12K for a bike lots of people go ahead and spend another $5K or more with in the 1st two years modifing it. They know this so why not save some money producing the bike in the first place.
____________
2000 ZX12R 40shot
2012 ZX14R
2009 Concours 14
posted March 31, 2003 06:00 PM
I hear ya' Lou. I just don't want to see the streetbike industry go down the same sad path to political correctness that the automotive industry did.
In order to really get your bike to perform to its potential you have to pay above and beyond the cost of the bike. I just don't think that's right. When the Ninja ZX11 came out it was the cat's meow because it was the fastest. Then came the CBR1100XX with the same impact. The next in line was the Hayabusa which awed riders and reporters around the world with its near 200 mph top speed. The next was supposed to be the ZX-12R but it was cut short.
As a streetbike fanatic I pick up magazines every month and surf the net like crazy trying to stay in step with the newest and latest information so I know what's forthcoming. Now I feel like it doesn't matter. The next bike isn't going to run 190mph; it can't. The next Gixxer won't run 180mph because that's too close to the Busa. The ZX-10R will either have a sub-180mph top speed or it will achieve exactly 180mph.
If I were Suzuki, Kawasaki, Honda or Yamaha my next move would be to build full-out top speed bikes capable of running 195+ mph speeds and I would ship them everywhere except Europe. I would tag all the VIN#s of bikes to be built and sold in Europe and those bikes would be the only ones limited to the 186mph top speed. When protests and demonstrations started occurring because of this stupid ruling we'd see how long it would be in effect. And what about McIntyre's Jet Bike? That thing has a top speed of like 260mph. I don't see anyone jumping up and down to limit that bike.
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
posted April 06, 2003 08:51 AM
Yes, I will be trading my "unrestricted" '00 12R for the first (green) 10R that shows up. Top speed was not an issue to me even when the 12R was just a rumor and artist concept drawings. I'd be lying if I didn't admit that brutal power was not a major drawing card, but I have yet to have seen over 170 mph (actual - GPS/Sigma).
After 3 years, the power is nice, but the weight is too much to economically overcome. Even if I spent an additional 50% of the 12R's MSRP, it would still not have the razor handling and BRAKING of a flyweight liter bike. This is more of what I'm looking for. Since I can not afford to keep a grage full of bikes... the 12R will have to go.
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
posted April 06, 2003 05:16 PM
And that's what it comes down to. Either you want a bike that can really, really perform on the twisties or you want a bike that can really, really perform on a straightaway. The prospect of having both is, well, not realistic unless you dump money into your liter sized canyon carver to make it faster on the top end.
posted April 06, 2003 06:49 PM
GSXR 1000 is very close to being everything.
____________
To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
posted April 07, 2003 03:56 PM
I hear all of that. And I have listened to all of the comments. And having owned both I found it interesting that On the Suzuki I kept up with the ZX12's and find third and 4th gear wheelies easier on the GSXR. My GSXR with a pipe and powercommander puts out 156 SAE rear wheel horsepower and ways 130 punds less then a 12. Stock 12's don't match up well with that. Certainly the 12 can be built to big numbers, but in stock form it is vunerable. And ust because some guys have whacked a GSXR doesn't mean their bike is faster, they are probably a better rider. Rickey Gadson can whack probably 95% of the ZX12 and Busa owners out there in the 1/r on a ZX6R!
____________
To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
posted April 24, 2003 09:26 AM
chooces Well as everyone already knows it doesn't matter what you ride what matters is how you ride it. I don't think anyone can make a bad purchase with any of the big bikes today if you have the skills. I hear a lot of people finding the weight of the zx12r a litle to much, the power of gsxr, busa, & zx12 to be close enough to not really be consider. Well I agree with most of this. I purchased the zx12 for lots of reasons and one which no one agrees with me, is it's weight. I happen to like the weight for stability reasons. I do alot of highway riding no matter what the weather and the extra weight just plants me better on the road no matter what my speed is. Since I purchased the bike I have never been left behind by anything. I don't see the zx10r as the replacement for the zx12 for the same reason the gsxr1K wouldn't be the replacement. We will just have to wait and see what Kawasaki comes up with.
____________
2000 ZX12R 40shot
2012 ZX14R
2009 Concours 14
posted May 01, 2003 10:35 AM
apples and oranges one bike cannot be the greatest at everything, it just not possible. gsxr's and r-1 and even the new zx-10 will be designed to turn and although they make tremendous amount of power they will limitations due to thier need to carve corners and compete on roadrace circuit. short wheelbases and high ground clearance do not allow the kind of stability that the bigger type of bikes allow(zx-12,hyabusa)in the old days japan used to make one bike, and aftermarket companies sprang up to allow us to specialize them to our needs. now japan has done it for us.
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
posted May 08, 2003 08:27 AM
Edited By: worm~hole on 9 May 2003 02:53
...I like the 12R for the comfortable long distance ergos and sport-touring stability at speed...and for me, where I have confidence in the straights (as almost all of us do), I can use almost all of the 12's speed where its 'appropriate'...when the twisties arrive, I just slow down to a level where I'm comfortable with my present skills...and...its fun to dust almost anything out there on the straights when the opportunity arises
...I'd also like to have a very light and very strong (for my fat ass)lightweight bike for the short stuff (the local rides and the track) where I can have fun on the local twisties without feeling like I'm wrestling a bear and where I can push it more on the track to learn more...but, the bike will also have to 'fit' me to a certain point...
...in the end, it all comes down to a rider's abilities with the bike (look at how Dino rides and look at how I ride for instance...his relaxed 5/10ths is my pucker factor 9/10ths)...I could go out and get the latest and greatest litre bike, but I'd still suck at riding it to its full potential...but, it'd be nice just to have anyway 'cuz it'd make me happy just to have one...
...the hardcore track-racers and truely gifted street riders amongst you have more serious issues when it comes to why or if you will purchase a certain bike, right?...man, I wish I[/i} had those kinds of 'issues' ...the rest of us buy because it makes us feel good...
...the 12 is a good 'all around' bike for my intended riding purpose...I'd like get the latest and greatest litre bike when I feel I'll have skills to use it's potential to rail around the twisties and the track...top speed's not an issue with me anymore...lightweight and handling will be...
...other bikes will eventually be purchased, but the 12 has a permanent spot in my motorcycling life...
____________ “We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
posted May 08, 2003 03:16 PM
Lets be honest Worm you like that special and sometimes thrilling gas tank vibration of the 12 ____________
To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
posted May 09, 2003 01:52 AM
Edited By: worm~hole on 9 May 2003 02:54
quote:Lets be honest Worm you like that special and sometimes thrilling gas tank vibration of the 12
...it gives meaning when people ask me if I ride my bike hard Bahahahahahahah!!!! ____________ “We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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posted March 01, 2003 07:11 PM
-ZXtra
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posted June 20, 2003 03:46 AM
