Y2KZX12R
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posted April 24, 2006 11:18 AM
ZX10r project...cam, head gasket, carpenter radius valvejob...
Otto65 has decided that he isnt going to be bullied around by a pair of 06 gsxrs and my 1375. So he has decided to upgrade the 04 10r. Its going to get the kawi racing intake cam, the kawi thin head gasket and a Carpenter radius valvejob.
Has anyone tested different cam timings with this combo?
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GUNNER
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posted April 24, 2006 11:39 AM
Jim I had mine at 107/104 at first and it was way long legged. It hurt the low and middle but pulled like mad up top. I went back and put them at 105/103 which on my motor gives .040 Piston to valve on the intake and .078 on the exhaust. It was as advanced as I dared to take it. It seems to pull better thru the mid now, BUT my map is dog shit and I haven't had time to get a new map for it. It's way FAT. Still runs great but it can be better. I also have the ignition module with a map that Ivan did for it. I reserve judgement on that one for now, but I think it's way off as well. I'll be very interested in the outcome of this project. I see APE offers springs for the 10 now 
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Y2KZX12R
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posted April 25, 2006 03:47 AM
Thanks for the info Gunner. Was that with the thin head gasket and race cam?
This bike from the factory was 106/104.
I noticed this heads intake ports are hand polished from the factory to remove casting roughness. But it still has the same valve shrouding as the 12r head does.
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GUNNER
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posted April 25, 2006 06:50 AM
 Edited By: GUNNER on 25 Apr 2006 07:53
Yes it was with the gasket and cam. Yes the shrouding is there for sure. I rolled those myself on the intake side as much as I felt that I could without starting to lower the compression too much. Basicly I just got rid of the really sharp edge and smoothed it up. The numbers everyone seems to use are 107/104 I just felt the motor was tooooo long winded there for my liking. Hey Jim did you leak the motor before you took it apart? My stuff was 2% across the board stone cold. I would love to leak it warmed up to see what it could be, but that's too much of a bitch to screw with.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted April 25, 2006 07:07 AM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 25 Apr 2006 08:09
Na, we didnt do a leakdown. He didnt have any complaints about the engine other than wanting it to have more power.
What did you end up with for hp?
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GUNNER
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posted April 25, 2006 11:13 AM
JIm, My motor still only has 600 miles on it total. It's not found it's way to the Dyno yet. I'm trying to get some miles on it first. The weather and my schedule don't seem to be working out together these days.
By the way Kawasaki specs the stock cam at 104/ 100~102 for factory spec useing the round holes. Do you have a copy of that Kawasaki Factory spec race manule for the 10R?
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Y2KZX12R
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posted April 25, 2006 11:23 AM
Yes, I have the pdf file of it, i read it today for the first time. Thanks.
I was amaized when i read that 104/100-102 was the spec. So the 10r cams are as wildly off as zx12r cams are.
Its interesting where they tell you to do the porting and the unshrouding of the valves in the chamber. Rings a bell...
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GUNNER
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posted April 25, 2006 03:42 PM
Ding! Ding!! The real eye opener for me was the Piston to valve clearance that Kawasaki says you can get by with. I would have like to advanced my intake more but .040 was as tight as I felt comfortable with. That's how I ended up with the number I did on the intake. I kept advancing it till .040 was reached and called it there.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted April 26, 2006 02:18 AM
My 12r from the factory was .022" piston to intake valve.
There saying .0275" min intake valve to piston. and .0255" piston to head.
So I think were going to stay just under .030" on the intake and set the exhaust 2 deg. from that. example: 104/102 103/101 102/100
Theres not much we can do about the squish because he allready bought the head gasket.
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GUNNER
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posted April 26, 2006 05:14 AM
I can see me swinging the motor back out of this thing in the near future for a redegree Job to tighten her up some  It's easy at this point.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted April 27, 2006 10:35 AM
I like the way the last lobes are exposed ont he cams. Very easy to get at for measurement.
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GUNNER
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posted April 27, 2006 07:57 PM
Yes they are easy to get at.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted April 28, 2006 09:15 AM
Hey, no cheating with propylene oxide when you dyno that beast... I want pump gas numbers.
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gunner
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posted April 28, 2006 10:27 AM
JIm, I only run pump gas.. It will have pump gas and Motul 5100 oil in the motor. I won't even run the slick shit I will say this..............ADVANCE that cam as much as you dare!! It really hurts the low/mid power. I wish mine was about 2degree more advanced than it is.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted May 21, 2006 04:38 AM
Thread has moved, change of plans.... go here.... http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=19&TID=23814&set_time=1148215070
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Badass Billy
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posted May 31, 2006 05:52 AM
I have a 2005 ZX10 with a full akrapovic evolution 2 exhaust, pc3usb, k&N filter, and professionally dyno-tuned. Stock was putting 148 hp to the rear and now it is putting 163.2 to the rear. I have also bought the ignition advancer which plugs into the pc3usb, and am having the cams degreed and the cylinders either ported or polished (im not sure which they said). With both all of this done I am supposed to have about 175 to the rear wheel. I will post with the new dyno charts when I get them in. The shop who did all my work said that my bike is putting out as much horsepower as a similarly equipped busa.
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2005 ZX-10R
163.2 HP at rear
Akrapovic Evo 2 Full
PC3 USB
K&N Air Filter
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GUNNER
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posted May 31, 2006 02:52 PM
You won't see that much power from just a cylinder head. Sorry to be the one to break the bad news.
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FP 10R
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posted June 05, 2006 02:20 PM
Careful if you are considering running the Kit cams, the ramps are a little on the aggressive side and prone to doming the valves on sustained high rpm situations that can spell disaster. We have already experienced this on our race bikes so went back to making our own cams to suit with a less agressive ramp configuration that seems to work.
Currently with a full race spec motor we are ranging in the 190-195 rwhp mark with no reliability issues to date, we still have limited areas that we are legally allowed to modify the motors but if you are really serious line boring the case's getting the crank alignment and rod/ journal setup getting it right is free HP.
Correct head & valve work, squish makes for a very quick engine with a lot of torque using the factory ecu and loom we currently run the engines to a 14300 rpm max setting using factory supplied maps, this is a very potent setup but has the side effect of making the bike a bit of a handfull in race trim.
The Kawi is a very physical bike to race ( Superbike class ) more so than any of the others and incredibly sensative to setup with so many aspects of the package to consider and very tire selective to get the best out of it.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted June 06, 2006 02:06 AM
FP, how many cc's are your chambers?
Whats your final static compression ratio?
What exhaust cam are you running?
What cam timing are you running?
How tight is your squish?
Thanks
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flashf3
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posted August 02, 2006 09:30 AM
Hey Where can I view that Race manual for the 10 or can someone forward it to me? Mike
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FP 10R
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posted August 02, 2006 11:08 AM
Y2k, I would love to be able to teel you all that but the truth is this first engine has been built buy Kawasaki so the specs are not available if you understand! All we got was general information and no specifics, I know that the factory boys are running another spec engine to us with a couple of other confidential modifications that we are to be let in on as yet.
Suffice to say we can just about stay with the Honda boys in a straight line and they currently admit to 203hp at the rear wheel and I would guess that the Suzuki is currently running at around the same mark both have new exhaust systems and sound very aggressive at the track.
Engine configurations are a very guarded secret in our class as the legal modifications are very limited compared to WSB so the factory boys keep things pretty tight. We have yet to build our second motor to a later spec and considering the cost for the first one its unlikely we will bother and just keep the second bike in wet spec where the extra power is not an issue.
Luckily our rider is not crash prone and apart from clutches and the gearbox is pretty easy on the bikes lucky for us this still Keeps the racing affordable for us all, still getting good results especially if you take the tyre situation into account.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted August 04, 2006 06:06 AM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 4 Aug 2006 07:11
FP, what rpms are you making peak power at?
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FP 10R
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posted August 04, 2006 07:13 PM
Y2K,
max revs are 13,400 and it pulls all the way so hard to gauge where peak power is but I would guess around the mid 12's is where is at its strongest kind of a handfull so we have played around with the gearing to limit the wheel spin and get it to hook up.
We had simular problems with last years bike the 04/05 makes far more torque lower in the rev range than the 06 and pushs the suspension throught the stroke to fast altering the geometry and upsetting the bike. The amount of suspension changes we made last year with springs and shim stack combinations to get the bike to work would just blow you away, trying some new tyres from different manufacturers at the moment with interesting results but each tyre combination requires the bike geometry to be modified to suit the combination and profile.
Off all the superbikes the Kawi is the most sensative to setup unfortunately the 06 bike is not the break through model it should have been building on the 04/05 model and the 07 will address this I hope.
Don't get me wrong I am not saying the 10R is a dog far from it but when you get to A grade level in superbike racing it's a totally different animal easily upset!
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Y2KZX12R
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posted August 05, 2006 03:24 PM
So you havent dynoed the bike? How do you guys dial in the fuel injection?
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Y2KZX12R
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FP 10R
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posted August 06, 2006 12:58 PM
Y2K,
biggest problem is most of the dyno's/operators that could be relied on for accuracy and not to blow your engine are associated with opposing teams so you see my problem. The other problem is as we are a semi satelite team we don't have first hand access to the factory programming so when we test and or race the factory boys download the maps into the bike.
See what I mean, we couldn't play with settings even if we wanted to, being in this situation has it's up and down side but it's all part of the game.
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"Life is not a rehearsal so make the most of it" Carefully
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