TedG
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posted December 11, 2005 04:43 PM
Edited By: TedG on 11 Dec 2005 16:46
Not so fast..... Look at this.
http://www.motogp.com/en/motogp/news_info/news_info_15724_1.htm?menu=home
I am hoping it works out.
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philmy3rdleg
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posted December 11, 2005 04:46 PM
QUOTE/Now, I think Kawasaki should consider giving Bridgestone the payback in the bottom line for costing them $8 million plus possibly some much better MotoGP finishes and possibly better development of the ZX-RR with this shit move. Just might be possible to not buy as many Bridgestones for OEM and substitute Michelins or Pirellis instead in the future. I would do that, as well as attempt to move the MotoGP team to Michelin for sure. Bridgestone/Firestone has the technology to develop and build a tire in one day then let it cure on the plane ride to its race. So timing isn't the reason, or lack of timing I should say. I think there bread and butter is in F1 racing/ car tires therefor GP takes a back seat. I also think Bridestone has come along way in a short time in motoGP and motorcycle tires in general. I think the BT002 DOT is as good if not better than anyother DOT. That being said I think they don't owe Biaggi anything and Boycotting a half Japanese half American/U.S.A. company too support a French one, because they didn't support Biaggi is wrong.
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trenace

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posted December 11, 2005 05:18 PM
Edited By: trenace on 11 Dec 2005 17:18
Not to support a French one. One doesn't (in most cases) buy from suppliers to support them.
However, in some cases one stops buying from a supplier on learning they can't be relied on. That's just smart business.
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TedG
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posted December 11, 2005 05:47 PM
Edited By: TedG on 11 Dec 2005 17:50
If you guys read the latest article from Motogp.com it looks like Bridgestone has no issue with supplying tires to Kwak for Max. From the way it reads, there may just be a deal.
Quoted from MotoGp,com
Biaggi indicated that he could join Kawasaki Racing: "Bridgestone confirmed to me that there wouldn't be any problem about getting me some tyres. The team, Kawasaki, is aware of that and so is the sponsor, Camel. So basically I told them I was available, now we'll have to wait and see what happens."
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FP 10R
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posted December 11, 2005 06:01 PM
Obviously a lot more to this than meets the eye, could it be a bit of one upmanship on Max's part to put the pressure on both Kawasaki & Bridgstone to come through with a deal?
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trenace

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posted December 11, 2005 06:05 PM
Edited By: trenace on 11 Dec 2005 18:12
It is possible that someone in senior Kawasaki management might have been pissed at Bridgestone's refusal and shall we say expressed his displeasure, which could have been considerable displeasure indeed considering that over $8 million net sponsorship money was senselessly going down the toilet due to that refusal, not to mention the potential of the MotoGP team getting better results for Kawasaki being lost for no good reason.
Actually, the senseless damage could be viewed as potentially even worse than that, because once the Camel sponsorship started, it might last many years, even after Biaggi's retirement, so it might be worth many tens of millions of dollars over time.
Following that, a senior Bridgestone executive could have been quite pissed at the perhaps-junior executive making the boneheaded refusal in the first place, and achieved a reversal.
Hypothetically: not impossible anyway.
But until seeing an announcement with quotes from Kawasaki or Bridgestone, to me it's still up in the air.
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FP 10R
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posted December 11, 2005 06:10 PM
By making a statement like Biaggi has in the public arena he has forced ( possibly ) both parties to try and save face? All part of the game and when it looks like you may be out of it anything's worth a punt, what have you got to lose?
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trenace

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posted December 11, 2005 06:17 PM
Edited By: trenace on 11 Dec 2005 18:18
Well, that could be. On the other hand, it's also possible that to Bridgestone, Harald Eckl (manager of the MotoGP team) is a nobody and when he negotiates with them, he has no clout. So whatever Bridgestone executive was involved, didn't care to lift a finger and arrange whatever needed to be done to make some more tires.
However, if following that some heavy hitter from Kawasaki in Japan picks up the phone and says he wants the tires, that could be a whole 'nother story. So I don't see a reversal as being impossible. However I don't believe the reversal would have been because of Biaggi persuading them: it almost would have had to be Kawasaki Japan.
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TedG
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posted December 11, 2005 06:50 PM
trenance, I believe you are correct that the reversal was not because of Biaggi persuading them. It most certainly had to come from Kwak or Bridgestone.
Like I said before, I am no Max fan. But I firmly believe that Max in motogp and riding an underdog machine would be good for the sport and generate even more interest. Especially if he does good. I also believe that Honda may have been reluctant to setup the bike to Max's riding style. Because that would have been a major redesign to a bike that Honda believes is a winner in the state it is in.
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FP 10R
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posted December 11, 2005 07:16 PM
However all this really went down behind closed doors, you can sure as hell bet we will never know the real story! Ever delt with the Japanese on a business basis? It's a whole nother world.
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Shortcircuit

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posted December 12, 2005 12:31 AM
There is a similar news item on Eurosport (also being discussed in the Sportbike forum) with a bit more info:
http://www.eurosport.com/home/pages/v4/l0/s39/e11740/sport_lng0_spo39_evt11740_sto801355.shtml
Changing to Michelin would be bad in the short term. They would need a season to get data & settings sorted for different tyres. Look how out of it Tamada's team were this season. Bridgestone have improved their tyres quite impressively in '05 going by Ducati's performance latter part of this season.
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Hiro_A1R
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posted December 12, 2005 04:55 AM
Another Biaggi-Kawasaki article, somewhat old(Nov 25) but interesting.
http://www.speedtv.com/articles/moto/motogp/20944/
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philmy3rdleg
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posted December 12, 2005 08:06 AM
I think if I were Biaggi I wouldn't be able to ride next year anyways, do to numerous ulcers.
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extremelean

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posted December 13, 2005 01:43 PM
More stuff to read---->>>> http://www.crash.net/uk/en/news_view.asp?cid=6&nid=123222
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extremelean

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posted December 13, 2005 01:48 PM
MORE http://www.crash.net/uk/en/news_view.asp?cid=6&nid=123181
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pete7r

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posted December 14, 2005 02:47 AM
in MCN today is has been confirmed that Camel went to Honda WSB about fielding a team for Biaggi on Hondas, but honda refused to work with him again...
Also michelin have ruled out any last minute deal to secure him tyres... so Bridgestone must have in fact closed the door on him if he had to try his luck with Michelin...
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zeta xray

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posted December 14, 2005 09:16 AM
Biaggi's performance at the end of the year was disappointing for him, no doubt. However, with the political situation that Honda has, that disappointing performance could have been a result of Biaggi no longer getting the "good" parts for his RC211V. Honda has proven to be willing and capable of pulling such BS. They had previously stated that they wanted a youth movement in their team and Biaggi clearly does no fit that mold. I think it would be an advantage for Kawasaki to have more riders on the MotoGP grid. And with someone else (Camel) picking up the tab, it could be a win-win situation. More bikes on the track will help to speed up development and Biaggi has well proven that he is capable of being a front runner. WHo knows, this could be the motivation that Biaggi needs. He saw Rossi take a middle of the pack bike and make it a winner. Maybe he would like to show that he can do the same thing. I am not really a Biaggi fan, but I would hope the deal goes through. I will be surprised if it does.
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TedG
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posted December 14, 2005 11:11 AM
quote: Biaggi's performance at the end of the year was disappointing for him, no doubt. However, with the political situation that Honda has, that disappointing performance could have been a result of Biaggi no longer getting the "good" parts for his RC211V. Honda has proven to be willing and capable of pulling such BS. They had previously stated that they wanted a youth movement in their team and Biaggi clearly does no fit that mold. I think it would be an advantage for Kawasaki to have more riders on the MotoGP grid. And with someone else (Camel) picking up the tab, it could be a win-win situation. More bikes on the track will help to speed up development and Biaggi has well proven that he is capable of being a front runner. WHo knows, this could be the motivation that Biaggi needs. He saw Rossi take a middle of the pack bike and make it a winner. Maybe he would like to show that he can do the same thing. I am not really a Biaggi fan, but I would hope the deal goes through. I will be surprised if it does.
Well said. I agree.
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human
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posted December 15, 2005 12:39 AM
http://www.speedtv.com/articles/moto/motogp/21218/
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trenace

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posted December 15, 2005 12:50 AM
Edited By: trenace on 15 Dec 2005 00:52
Great link, thanks!
(Help with the link: http://www.speedtv.com/articles/moto/motogp/21218/)
Here are the most key excerpts, but the whole thing is worth reading:
quote: Biaggi, dropped by Honda and refused even satellite bikes by HRC, was also rejected by Suzuki and Yamaha. Initially Kawasaki was not interested, but the prospect of sponsorship from Camel for the un-sponsored green team was tempting enough for team director Harald Eckl to approach Bridgestone for tires. He told journalists that the first response from Bridgestone was negative, but then Biaggi spoke directly to the tire manufacturer and now, it seems, Bridgestone is prepared to supply a third Kawasaki rider if that rider is a fully-sponsored Max Biaggi. (Did Max's lawyers cry collusion?)
The new Dorna plan (since the old one didn't work) is for each factory to put four machines on the track in 2007. That would be twenty works machines from Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki and Ducati. The remaining slots would either be for new factory teams (and let's forget about BMW, they aren't coming, never were) like KTM (supplying motors to WCM next year). Honda will also supply engines to Team Roberts and to former 500 World Champion Kenny Robert's Junior in 2006, something that Honda did with Elf in 1986-87-88.
Still, the midnight hour has not yet come for Pons and until it does there is always the possibility of some last-minute surprise.
Biaggi, however, given up for lost, seems to have saved his career and, given the comments that some of the quicker testers who tried the Kawasaki at the end of the season, the Shinya Nakano-inspired green bike (that is about to be Camel yellow) may be the 250-type MotoGP 990 that Max tried to make the Honda into.
That, at any rate, is how it all looks at this minute as the last pieces fall into place.
Other reports, incidentally, have said a yellow-and-green paint scheme, not straight yellow, but I suppose no one outside the principals knows at this point.
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bovinespongiformencephalo
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posted December 15, 2005 08:32 AM
Mmmmm...yellow and green? This I gotta see. Somebody photoshop that. You know you want to.
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TedG
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posted December 16, 2005 01:18 PM
According to this, Max is implying that it may be a done deal
http://www.eurosport.com/home/pages/v4/l0/s39/e11740/sport_lng0_spo39_evt11740_sto801355.shtml
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jimmihaffa
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posted December 17, 2005 08:46 AM
Very bad photoshop attempt at would be Camel ZXRR
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2116030633&idx=1
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jimzx9r

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posted December 17, 2005 11:15 AM
I'm pretty sure they're going to need a much bigger camel logo for 8 million dollars.
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jimmihaffa
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posted December 17, 2005 01:35 PM
camel logo
ya think...i kinda reasoned along the lines of not upsetting the anti-smoking lobbyists and beaurocrats...foiled again batman
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