GUNNER
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted November 30, 2005 11:34 AM
Turbo 10 To be or Not to be?
How many of you guys would consider a turbo on your 10R? Velocity has a new kit for 4000.00 that will deliver 213 at 6 psi and stone stock motor on pump gas, and around 230 at 8 psi with better fuel or water inject. Now with the new ignition module out I would thing that a little less timing up top would allow a little more power on pump gas.
What do you guys think? Would it fuck up a perfectly good 10 or would it be the perfect street bike?
  
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D
Needs a job
Posts: 3365
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posted November 30, 2005 12:21 PM
After installing billet clutch components and external fuel pump - I would consider one.
My concerns are with the fuel out here - summer fuel just plain sucks and even at 8 psi, I would imagine there would be issues.
Besides the issues of havin $6-7k ta throw at the bike.
I"d turbo a Busa years before I'd turbo a 10 though.
I'd also want to compare turbo "kits" of different suppliers too.
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ricksgsxr
Zone Head
Posts: 511
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posted November 30, 2005 01:24 PM
 Edited By: ricksgsxr on 1 Dec 2005 05:44
Maybe....
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D
Needs a job
Posts: 3365
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posted November 30, 2005 01:50 PM
Yeah, that's what I meant....
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GUNNER
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted November 30, 2005 03:31 PM
Rick I agree with what you have paosted above. In years past I've had about 5 turbo bikes,but that was before all the factory FI came along and Power Commanders etc. The Draw thru shit I had was barely better than what Fred Flintstone had back in his time compared to what they have today. And at the same time I do know better, BUT I'm very temped to give it one more try with these modern generation bikes. Maybe? I just hate like hell to fuck up the 10 for what it really is designed for. Turbos are like smoking crack. Once you have had the power it's hard to no crave it again and again. Let me take a tour of my shop and look at some of my busted and broken shit all because of past turbo bikes and I'll probably change my mind. Thanks again Rick for reminding me of several facts that I already knew but had forgot about! or didn't want to remember?
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D
Needs a job
Posts: 3365
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posted November 30, 2005 04:18 PM
If ya wanna turbo sumthin then go with the Busa - quite simply put, there is no better bike to turbo right now with all of the various companies that are currently involved with these bikes.
There are some nice kits available (some nicer than others) with a fari amount of support nation wide.
If ya want a daily driver that will put up withthe additional stresses of turbo use, I wouldn't recommend the 10 - especially if you like it the way it is now.
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GUNNER
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted November 30, 2005 04:39 PM
Yea I just completed the inventory of fucked up parts in my garage. I think maybe I need to be medicated for even thinking about another turbo. Maybe a good swift kick in the ASS will do just as well. Thanks again Rick for that long post that reminded me that smoking crack is stupid and so is turbo bikes.
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D
Needs a job
Posts: 3365
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posted November 30, 2005 04:43 PM
They can still be PITA's but nowhere near as bad as what you're accustomed to (in reference to yer previous rides).
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted November 30, 2005 04:48 PM
When the 14 is released and the new 2007 Busa, forget about a Turbo 10 or 1000...
Turboing a 10 or 1000 will probably get you real good friends with your favorite engine builder...
I say Not to Be!!!
____________
Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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GUNNER
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted November 30, 2005 05:14 PM
Yepper a wise choice to NOT be for sure. First lesson I learned long ago was. NEVER build a small motor to run like a BIG motor. Always start building with the biggest SOB that there is and make it run like nothing that's ever been done before. I almost forgot that lesson I learned so long ago. Hell that's the footer from which all things are built from. I must be getting old or else my memory is starting to slip 
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jerry coomer
Novice Class
Posts: 43
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posted November 30, 2005 05:23 PM
a friend of mine has a zx 10 and he made his own twin turbo kit on it . he has little fabricating skills and just spent a total of 1600.00 and it is so fast you can hardly ride it.and it has many miles of trouble free riding . if you guys have any skills at all you can build your own kit its not that hard. jerry coomer
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ricksgsxr
Zone Head
Posts: 511
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posted December 01, 2005 05:37 AM
Edited By: ricksgsxr on 1 Dec 2005 05:55
quote:
Rick I agree with what you have paosted above. In years past I've had about 5 turbo bikes,but that was before all the factory FI came along and Power Commanders etc. The Draw thru shit I had was barely better than what Fred Flintstone had back in his time compared to what they have today. And at the same time I do know better, BUT I'm very temped to give it one more try with these modern generation bikes. Maybe? I just hate like hell to fuck up the 10 for what it really is designed for. Turbos are like smoking crack. Once you have had the power it's hard to no crave it again and again. Let me take a tour of my shop and look at some of my busted and broken shit all because of past turbo bikes and I'll probably change my mind. Thanks again Rick for reminding me of several facts that I already knew but had forgot about! or didn't want to remember?
I edited my post to make you feel a little better!
Did you have a 78/79 Z1R-TC? I remember when American Turbo Pac came out withose and the local kawasaki dealership had one. That was when I lived in Seattle and they also had a turbo LTD model.
In 1983 I almost bought the XN85 650 turbo, wasn't really fast but looked different.
I had a chance to ride several times a built to the hilt Stage 2 kit from 6lbs to 24lbs of boost and it was a rush no motor, nos bike can duplicate and the sound of the dump pipe and blow off valve is intoxicating.
But than I was with owner when it puked 3 times and the fourth time got a call at work if i could bring my truck down to pick his now fourth grenaded motor. Built by a reputed to be number one Velocity reseller.
My bitterness comes from how they are marketed and what is needed to safely make X hp. Same argument but a lesser degree can be found with built motors and nos setups.
The new rules for 1000 I read are basically unlimited and some turbo 1000's are going to be in the 7's and a trickle down effect from those records being ran will be new and stronger parts and advanced or expanded systems that the consumer will reap the rewards of someone elses R&D and broken pile of parts.
But if you want to be the first! 4k for 230 hp is a bargain price for sure and with 50 more than what I have now on my built 1k geez that gotta be fun to ride as long as it stays together.
I'm playing with a little nitro methane and methonal about 6% and going to play more with it on a dyno till I find the the max hp or the breaking point cuz I already have 28k on the motor and want to freshen it up so if it pukes I got my money out of it. It has been bullet proof and I ride the crap out of it. So far so good except for traction once i pass 5k 
Rick Gregory
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steve p
Parking Attendant
Posts: 5
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posted December 01, 2005 06:48 AM
GUNNER, I have a turbo 10 that i built myself. i have made 232 on the dyno and i run it at 220 all of the time. it even has the thinner head gasket from kawasaki that makes it 13 1/2 to 1. i run 110 octane in it and have not had a problem yet. i have 8000 miles on it and the stock clutch is still fine but i don't drag race it. don't listen to the people that only know what someone else tells them, if you want to turbo a zx10 then go for it. it is no different than any other 10 out there and it is a blast with the power i have
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GUNNER
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted December 01, 2005 08:31 AM
Edited By: GUNNER on 1 Dec 2005 08:34
Hey Steve PM me your number I would like to ask some questions about that 10R of yours. Steve what will it make on pump gas? Heck I don't want to have a man in a VP tanker truck following me around everywhere:P Pump gas is a must have for me anyway.
Rick......Man I don't know where to start. My first turbo bike was a KZ750 that I built myself when I was 17 (long ago) My last street turbo bike was a GPz1100 that had a 1426 turbo package in it and was 66" wheelbase. (way back in 1984) There were others along the way. They all run great, but without EFI they were always a PITA to ride and you either had them jetted for sharp throttle response or FAT for top end. It was a world of constant trade offs. Oh yea and don't let me forget the Blow Thru carb set up on my ZX11 that was the worst set up EVER!!!!! Never could get that bitch run anywhere near right. (i try and forget that one)
Anyhow I hear guys all the time saying that these new EFI equipped bikes are so mild mannored and easy to get set up damn near perfect as far as great street mannors. Yea I also know how tempting it is to keep turning that damn screw in till BAD shit happens. To get that same amount of power the old fshion way let's say will cost nearly 3 times as much, and those motors have their little issues as well. What I mainly don't want to have when I'm done is a 10 that has 1 inch chicken strips because it has such a fucked up power delivery that leaning the bitch over in a corner becomes a death wish. If I can be relatively sure that the power delivery will be very smooth and not like a hit on a NOS button I'll probably do it. My 12R would actually make a better turbo bike, but in my older and more lazy years I just don't have the drive to make every single damn part for it.
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robmuzzy
Expert Class
Posts: 295
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posted December 02, 2005 09:29 AM
I believe that MUZZYS has more experience with Turbo Charging the ZX-10 than anybody. We have kits that have been Dyno'd from 200Hp to 500Hp. You guy's may be getting away with stock pistons and the stock Ti exhaust valves at very low boost and running on the rich side, but you will have trouble. Titanium oxidizes (turns to dust) at 1400 degrees F. Exhaust temps on a properly tuned turbo charged engine run 1400 to 1600 degrees F. That is why Titanium exhaust systems are not used on Turbo charged engines. The MUZZY kits come with Turbo pistons and Stainless valves allowing you to run up to 500 HP on gas.
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Eric_The_Jew
Expert Class
Posts: 266
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posted December 02, 2005 10:56 AM
Edited By: Eric_The_Jew on 2 Dec 2005 10:57
Why is there no info on the Muzzy turbo kits?? They aren't even listed on Muzzy's site.
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Eric_The_Jew
Expert Class
Posts: 266
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posted December 02, 2005 11:00 AM
Edited By: Eric_The_Jew on 2 Dec 2005 11:03
Gunner,
Last weekend I helped a friend install a turbo kit on his '02 GSXR750. It's a Motorhead Ghetto kit (very popular with the turbo busa crowd).
I'll let you know how reliable it turns out to be. It's a very mild 6 psi kit. All internal components are stock. He's in the process of tuning it himself with a Dynojet Wide Band Commander. We're shooting for 170hp at the wheel.
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gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted December 02, 2005 12:36 PM
quote:
I believe that MUZZYS has more experience with Turbo Charging the ZX-10 than anybody. We have kits that have been Dyno'd from 200Hp to 500Hp. You guy's may be getting away with stock pistons and the stock Ti exhaust valves at very low boost and running on the rich side, but you will have trouble. Titanium oxidizes (turns to dust) at 1400 degrees F. Exhaust temps on a properly tuned turbo charged engine run 1400 to 1600 degrees F. That is why Titanium exhaust systems are not used on Turbo charged engines. The MUZZY kits come with Turbo pistons and Stainless valves allowing you to run up to 500 HP on gas.
Rob.............How much is one of your kits? Enquiring minds want to know.
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gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted December 02, 2005 01:08 PM
Edited By: gunner on 2 Dec 2005 13:55
Rob............I don't want to sound disrespectful at all Sir, but NO one can find out anything about a large % of the products you sell. A phone call to your company usually is met with very short answers that contain very little info. Sort of like we're suppose to know what you're selling and if we don't know than it's the customers fault. Your above post indicates that Muzzy's offers complete turbo kits for the ZX10, but after a very quick call to your company it turns out that your kit don't include valves and pistons standard as you indicated above. For 8500.00 bucks what in the world do you get for that money? Again I don't mean any disrespect to a man of your position in the grand skeem of the High performance industry. I was told that pistons, valves,etc are all options and in fact NOT included in the kit at all. I'm sure that many hard working folks would love to have your turbo kits IF we only knew what in the world was included for such a large price. I'm sure it's all good stuff and there's plenty of it I would just love to have some more details. And since your employees seem to just want the customers to hang up the phone and stop asking questions it's very difficult to find out these answers. I hope that you can lend some light to the questions surrounding MUZZY turbo kits. Your Web site has nothing and the sales staff are about as helpful as waiting for the cable man to come and fix your cable TV.
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Eric_The_Jew
Expert Class
Posts: 266
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posted December 02, 2005 05:40 PM
Gunner, if you're seriously thinking about making this turbo kit a "go", I would highly suggest checking with Dennis a.k.a "The Motorhead" over at suzukihayabusa.org forums' "Turbotalk" section. This is one sharp man and a master fabricator who knows anything turbo. He builds almost exclusively Busa kits, but will turbo just about anything if you can get on his waiting list. He has built 600 HP Busas.
People have nothing but good stuff to say about his kits, and they run around $3900. Like I said before, I helped install one of his kits firsthand, and the welding is absolutely unbelievable. The aluminum airbox is a work of art.
Just something to think about when others are charging over 8 grand for kits.
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gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted December 02, 2005 06:15 PM
Thanks Eric. Actually Dennis is on my buddy list and I talk to him on occasion. I spoke to him already this week about the 10R turbo project  He's not a huge fan of the liter bikes because the Busa is just so much easier, and has huge power in the end for the same effort. Still he says that it will live with a little lower compression. At the same time Steve P from .net and I spoke last night about his twin turbo 10. He has a completely stock motor and runs 230Hp all the time with his set up. Will it live? Yes it will. Do I really want to do a turbo? maybe . At the same time I spoke with Coby Adams today and I'm gathering info about a Brute motor that breaths on it's own lungs. One way or the other Gunner is moving back up the food chain some for next year. Maybe not the top, but a little bit off the bottom. 
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Hells Dark Lord
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living life, and loving it.
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posted December 03, 2005 08:29 AM
Is Steve P. from Louisville?
there is a very nice twin turbo 10 that is areound here but I dont know his name....its a blue and chrome bike
____________
When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted December 03, 2005 09:09 AM
Edited By: gunner on 3 Dec 2005 09:20
Yes, he is from there. He's a very helpful guy that has no problem sharing information about his bike. He also done a turbo 636 that his wife rides. His set up is very simple and it makes the same power numbers as what Berry from Velocity quoted from his kit. So hey I guess there's really NO majic here eh?
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robmuzzy
Expert Class
Posts: 295
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posted December 03, 2005 09:27 AM
gunner- I am sorry that you did not receive the info you needed. The 8,495.00 kit is the stage three HP kit. It contains the following: T3/4 ball bearing turbo, 38mm waste gate, 38mm blow off valve, all exhaust parts, all intake parts, stand alone ECU and software, plug and play harness, AMS 1000 boost controller, fuel pump, Fuel tank adapter for outlet/return, fuel regulator, 650cc injectors, fuel rail, new oil filter/cooler mount, Boost gage, and all hardware, and communication cable for ECU.
The ECU has shift kill, two step, shift light, and is programed to use stock coils/ temp sensors/ tach/ map sensor/ and TP sensor.
Engine options: Forged turbo pistons and Stainless exhaust valves.
ECU options: Lambda $595.00- $995.00, Data logging $595.00.
Hope this helps
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robmuzzy
Expert Class
Posts: 295
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posted December 03, 2005 09:36 AM
gunner- Above reply should have said stage three 500 HP kit.
We can also sell a $3995.00 kit for max 4/5 Lbs boost. We normally see 220HP to 240HP at 5 psi. I have to say that 4Lbs and above you are at risk with stock exhaust valves. Above 8 you are at risk with stock pistons.
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