TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted September 20, 2005 09:51 AM
Winter modification list
Well summer is almost over and there are cold days ahead and where I live the riding season ends soon. So that leaves me with a long winter with little to do but work on things around the house and in the garage. Hopefully my job will allow me a bit more time at home, which hasn't been the case for the last couple of years. Anyway I am thinking of a few things to do to the 10 and they are as follows:
1. Thin head gasket. I live at altitude and this should help a lot. Has anyone here done this? And which gasket did you get? Kwak's or aftermarket?
2. CRG Levers. Has anyone found anything different or better?
3. BMC filter.
4. Yet another set of Pilot Powers.
5. Steel Braided brake lines.
6. Remove emissions crap.
7. Area P slip on.
8. Power Commander? Has anyone noticed any improvement?
9. Headlight conversion. I am going to try to find a way to get H4 bulbs to fit into the H7 sockets. That would make a huge difference in the lighting.
Any other good suggestions?
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
  
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DB
Pro
Posts: 1932
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posted September 20, 2005 10:06 AM
quote:
8. Power Commander? Has anyone noticed any improvement?
I installed a muzzy slip on on my 04 10r and its caused it to run a little lean. I've got the power commander but need to install it. I'm scheduled for a full map next week. It has to make an improvement
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Dan
04 ZX10r (Track only)
08 Concours14
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Hells Dark Lord
Needs a life
living life, and loving it.
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posted September 20, 2005 12:05 PM
Instead of the CRG, check out pazzoracing.com, I am using the Pazzo's on my 10, and Crashtech is running them on his 12...I love mine, wouldnt trade them for anything.....
I plan on painting the wheels, and adding a PC with map....then I want to get into the suspension, gold valves progressive springs, and the works in the front, and maybe an Elka shock for the rear.....
____________
When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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TedG
Moderator
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posted September 20, 2005 12:18 PM
 Edited By: TedG on 20 Sep 2005 16:24
Good call on those Pazzos!! I did a google on levers and saw nothing of these. I like the Pazzos better!
I painted my wheels and polished the edges as I did to my 12. I get so many compliments on those wheels and the bike looks so much cleaner and detailed. It makes the wheels look super light. I am not sure about the suspension, I even like the stock settings.
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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CanyonCarver
Expert Class
Posts: 121
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posted September 20, 2005 02:41 PM
2. FWIW, I have the CRG levers. The Pazzos are just as nice, come in more varied color options and are less expensive. They just weren't available when I bought the CRGs.
Only downside to either of them, when used on the clutch side, is that they often don't depress the clutch switch enough to allow starting in gear, when adjusted to anything but full out (6 on the CRGs). Doesn't bother me to have to place the bike in neutral to start it, but it might bother others. Caveat emptor.
6. No performance increase by removing emissions crap, but definitely cleans up the engine compartment and makes it easier to work on the bike.
8. Huge improvement in rideability, on/off throttle transitions, mid-range and overall power once I ponied-up for a custom map. Mileage goes down though, if you care about such things. I don't.
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TedG
Moderator
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posted September 20, 2005 02:56 PM
Thanks I have big hands and like my levers all the way out and then some. As far as the emissions crap I remove it to save weight and clean things up. This is my fifth Ninja and all of them have lost their emissions.
Hmm good info on the PC.
____________
Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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CanyonCarver
Expert Class
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posted September 20, 2005 03:06 PM
Glad to contribute, TedG. Enjoy the winter wrenching.
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Hells Dark Lord
Needs a life
living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
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posted September 21, 2005 01:46 AM
I have been fortunate with my Pazzo's I have the clutch set out on position 5, 6 is the farthest out, and I can stillstart the bike when I use 2 fingers to swueze the clutch. The lever hits my ring finger it will start. I like the levers, just wish they were shorter, a true 2 fingered lever.....
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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Big Daddy
Zone Head
Posts: 616
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posted September 21, 2005 06:43 AM
Pazzo's are great, Galfer SS lines help firm the lever up, the BMC filter advantage is reusable only as the OEM works very well. The reports/feedback from the thin head gasket (either Kawi or Muzzy's) is 3-4 peak HP, but then you can have the cams degreed wherever ya choose.
BD
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Big Daddy
Zone Head
Posts: 616
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posted September 21, 2005 06:48 AM
I recently had my PC installed and bike dynoed @ Folsom Kawi in Sac and other than an Akra slip its stock and the A/F ratio was 15:1 (LEAN) so the service mgr tweeked some areas and eventually ended up @ 14:1 which is still on the lean side but he knew i lived in your neighborhood. :-)
BD
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted September 21, 2005 07:17 AM
BD, I would not have left it lean. Remember the computer will compensate for the altitude and you will still be lean up here. This being an open loop system there is no way for the computer to judge if it is too lean or rich. It only has it's baseline and the sensor input to help it make the adjustments. I am thinking of taking It over to Freedom Cycle(Triumph shop). Some of you may have heard of the Yuill brothers they were a big name in drag racing(cars). Anyway they are good friends and I just may setup the PC there.
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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Big Daddy
Zone Head
Posts: 616
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posted September 21, 2005 07:23 AM
The PC is controlling the input now not the ECU.
BD
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TedG
Moderator
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posted September 21, 2005 07:47 AM
No, the PC is modifying the input. It still uses the ECU to determine barometric pressure, manifold absolute pressure, and all the other inputs.The ECU may put out a 30ms pulse, the PC will modify that pulse to compensate by adding length or taking some away according to what is inserted in the cells. In some cases it will modify the signals going to the ECU to "fool" the computer into thinking it needs to richen or lean at specific RPMs and throttle positions. But either way the ECU determines what needs to happen as conditions change.
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
|
Big Daddy
Zone Head
Posts: 616
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posted September 21, 2005 07:56 AM
well now thats a bit more specific isn't it........it does in fact fool the ECU for A/F via the map.
BD
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TedG
Moderator
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posted September 21, 2005 08:08 AM
Actually there are 2 methods they use. On the ZX12 they modify the the pulse width on the outputs to the injectors. On many other bikes they "fool" or modify the sensor inputs slightly. They do not take overall control. First the PC is not that sophisticated. I looked at the outputs of the PC with an oscilloscope and you would not believe how sloppy things are. Cells that have zero modifications are altered up to 30%. But in all cases the PC should be set up at optimum and then let the ECU compensate.
____________
Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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CanyonCarver
Expert Class
Posts: 121
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posted September 21, 2005 09:02 AM
quote:
Cells that have zero modifications are altered up to 30%.
This is probably because the PCIII interpolates between cells. Not sure if the PCIII does this or not, but this is how other FI systems I've worked with handle things. So even if a particular cell has no modification, if the adjacent side cells have mods of say +2, the non-modded cell will interpolate to a number between 0 and 2. Won't be a straight split to 1 though, as it will look at all cells above, below and to the sides for its calculation. FWIW.
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
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posted September 21, 2005 09:05 AM
Fix front cowl and ram air after "gas station incident"  ..photos to follow
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted September 21, 2005 09:07 AM
Nice theory, but do this empirical test: Set all cells to "0" and then look at the inputs to the PC and the outputs and you will see a major difference when there should be none. I did it and it wasn't pretty.
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted September 21, 2005 09:09 AM
Edited By: TedG on 21 Sep 2005 10:11
quote:
Fix front cowl and ram air after "gas station incident" ..photos to follow
?????? What did you do now? Or did you just want to learn how to do body work????? Maybe just needed something to do this winter???
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
|
CanyonCarver
Expert Class
Posts: 121
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posted September 21, 2005 09:17 AM
Can't say I'm surprised to hear that, Ted. As you mentioned, the PCIII isn't that sophisticated. Seems to work OK tho, even with its flaws. Always thought it would be nice to run a Motec ECU, but then I heard that the Kaw race team tried it and went back to the PCIII 'cause they couldn't get the Motec to work as well. Go figure. Seems counter-intuitive to me as the Motec seems more advanced. Maybe too complex... Guess maybe sometimes simple is better.
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted September 21, 2005 09:37 AM
I think the thing with the PCIII is to set the mixture no matter how it modifies the cells. As long as they are correct. My big problem with the PC is that on my 12 it failed on me 100 miles from home and I had to dick around with it on the side of the road. And then to get it replaced was another sack of worms. After more than a month I finally had to show up at their door to get them to give me another one. Then I just never trusted it so I never hooked it up.
____________
Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
|
Big Daddy
Zone Head
Posts: 616
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posted September 21, 2005 10:52 AM
brain cells and PC3 cells are interpolating
BD
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted September 21, 2005 04:12 PM
quote:
brain cells and PC3 cells are interpolating
BD
Eeek! No thanks.
____________
Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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