posted March 29, 2005 06:25 AM
I don't have any personal experience with this particular item but as someone who designed his own top speed derestirctor for my ZX12r out of $2 of radio shack parts I would say the ability to modify how your bike runs by just plugging some gadget into the wiring harness is very real.
Since the ECU runs the engine based on sensor inputs all you have to do to change the engine behavior is tweak the sensor input signals.
I'd be curious to know exactly which sensor this thing plugs into.
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posted March 29, 2005 08:10 AM
everything I have heard about the ZX10 is that it isnt restricted.......might aught to find out for sure before you spend your hard earned money.....ask Kbryant, or extremelean
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
posted March 29, 2005 09:05 AM
10R isn't restricted in any way as far as we know.. seen people run some very impressive speed numbers on this site...
as for the rest of the claims....
quote:THE T.R.E. UNIT CANCELS OUT AND GETS RID OF ALL THAT SNATCHY ON - OFF THROTTLE RESPONSE.
Are they sure they're talking about the right bike??? Sounds like a scam to me... Maybe if they were talking about an Y2K 12R tghen I MIGHT believe it... but "snatchy on off throttle" on the 10R?
Save yer money and buy the PC USB and the expansion modules for it.
____________ What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
posted March 29, 2005 02:02 PM
Fish, the 10 is restricted, at 299kmh it hits a brick wall only alternate maps and a bit of fiddling allowed my bike to read 322kmh ( on the track of course ) you will also find that it is programmed into the first three gears to retard the the ignition to prevent full power on hard starts to avoid looping the bike over backwards.
The GSXR 1000 has the same programming built into the ECU and sensor on the gear position indicator, I believe this TRE unit works on the premis that it fools the ECU into believing that it is in 5th not top and does not bring the limiter into play and by-passes the signal in the lower gears to cut the timing retard.
Snatchy low end response it usually attributed to attaining Emission readings and programming usually smooths this out with a PC unit ,it is possible this TRE richens up the initial throttle opening giving a smoother transition to power ?
I have ordered one and will give it a try for $60 what have I got to loose will let you know the results when it arrives and is fitted then will run on the new Dyno and see.
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"Life is not a rehearsal so make the most of it" Carefully
posted March 29, 2005 04:32 PM
FP.... I think there are quite a few members here who would disagree with you about the 10 being restricted... Maybe they have different 10R's? Seems odd that people have run it past 299 km/h ...
as for "snatchy" throttle... dunno about that either... Ca. emmisions bikes maybe? Although I've ridden them, and normal 10R's and the throttle was flawless...
____________ What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
posted March 29, 2005 04:50 PM
The only ones in CA that have a "satchy throttle" are the ones that XL rides. That's because everytime he starts to get up onto the powerband, he wacks the throttle back and forth because he's a wuss and deathly afraid of going fast.
I've noticed no hitches in the get-along of CA 10's.
As far as top speed, I have no comment - or complaints
posted March 30, 2005 01:20 PM
I know for fact the 10R we ride today is a far cry from the one tested back in Oct 2002 in Japan as it was a far more radical bike in many ways but not suitable for mass marketing.
Manufacturers are forced to address many issues when specing new models and are forced to take into account the requirements of many different countries and markets... No use making the baddest bike in the world if no country will allow it's importation for sale.
Eg: Europe's 100hp limit on output, differing specs on emmissions and design rules as well as the legal issues associated with the bikes performance. How do you police the people who buy your bikes and their abilites? Over here their seems to be a rash of written off 10R's coming up for auction lately we have bought four just for race bike spares in the last 2 months.
The answer is you modify your product to cater for the middle of the road balancing handling against performance and limit your liability as we all know Companies are run by the bean counters and lawyers these days. No use making the best bike on the road if you can't export it to any country for sale! But hey this is just my $60 worth...... with a little bit of inside knowledge.
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"Life is not a rehearsal so make the most of it" Carefully
posted March 30, 2005 01:32 PM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 30 Mar 2005 13:39
I'm not talking about pre-pro bikes FP... there's lots of "inside knowledge" on this site... Do you own stock in that scammy $60 company er something? ____________ What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
posted March 30, 2005 01:51 PM
i don't understand why all the doubting of top speed restriction? we know very well that there is a 300km/h voluntary limit by the big 4 manufacturers, and this limit is implemented on the 12r and busa. if the 10r is capable of doing more than 300 in stock form (power & gearing) then i would assume it is restricted too. however, i would be surprised if it could do so. maybe a pipe and some remapping would take it over. cutting power in the first 3 gears wouldnt surprise me either. makese perfect sense in any case. tho i have no way of knowing whether that is actually the case or not.
posted March 30, 2005 02:08 PM
Fish, I could tell you but then I would have to Kill You! Company Policy.
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"Life is not a rehearsal so make the most of it" Carefully
posted March 30, 2005 02:56 PM
Edited By: dougmeyer on 30 Mar 2005 15:21
It's simple Freek
The 10 wouldn't go more than 186 mph as sold. Therefore it did not need to be restricted to that speed. Also remember this is not a "law" it is an agreement. And that certianly does not apply in the US. FP 10R, there is no inherent restriction on a US model 10. There is however a top speed on all of them..
posted March 30, 2005 03:08 PM
I know one thing my 10 hits its peak power at 12k and flatlines until the rev limiter 12,500, torque is still on a slight decline at the same points, to me that seems restricted in regards to power as most bikes seem to have at least 800 to 1500 rpm after peak till they hit the rev limiter.
posted March 30, 2005 03:27 PM
Your torque starts declining at it's peak in the mid -range. Look at the dyno sheet. If you are talking about seat-of-pants you're feeling aero drag.
There is a common misconception that peak speed coincides with peak power. Not necessarily. A vehicle will continue to accelerate until the power available equals the power required even if the power available is LESS after the peak (which, by definition, it is)
posted March 30, 2005 06:48 PM
Doug, you are exactly right on the speed issue the EU threatened manufacturers with a total importation ban if they didn't institute some sort of speed restriction and this started back in 2000 when the first ZX12R was going to be released and the hype about it doing 200 mph along with the Hyabusa.
Originally my bike would hit a brick wall at an indicated 299 kmh on either the dyno or track but a PC unit and some other programing changes have had this pushed to a corrected indicated 322 kmh after the changes.
With the Race bikes and the Factory ECU's fitted we have been able to by-pass all this in conjunction with PC units and special software raising the rev limit to 14,500 and we have been advised as to how best negate the retardation on the ignition in the first three gears to maxamise off the line starts under race conditions.
Many other items have been changed and modified that I am not at liberty to discuss that have significantly changed the bikes performance and these include injection system mods and kit parts in the engine that we are in the process of testing as you well know this involves a lot of time and expense.
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"Life is not a rehearsal so make the most of it" Carefully
posted March 30, 2005 08:03 PM
Doug.. clarify your statement... it isnt restricted , however it is...
I've seen lots of people here claiming to run stockers past 299/ 186 without mods... FP10 says otherwise... you have said otherwise in the past, and in yer post above, however you also mention it has a top speed limit..
so which is it?
'splain...
____________ What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
posted March 30, 2005 10:30 PM
Edited By: dougmeyer on 30 Mar 2005 22:32
Fish I said it has a "top speed" which it does. I didn't say limit. Everything has a top speed.
FP you're talking in riddles. What is a "corrected indicated"? That's an oxymoron. An instrument reading is "indicated" a "corrected" reading is an indicated value adjusted mathematically to account for instrument error for factors that the instrument does not recognize. (i.e., indicated horsepower at one barometer corrected back to sea level pressure)
If your bike spun the rear wheel on an inertia dyno to equal a given speed, that's an interesting but worthless value. It's just a function of the engine RPM divided by the sum total of the gear ratios. Any relation to top speed needs to take into account the total aero drag, a value which I suspect no one outside of KHI R&D knows exactly. If you have made "numerous yet secret" modifications that enable your bike to go faster, well good on ya. That's what we all aim to do. But noe of taht proves taht the ZX-10 incorporates any type of inherent speed limiting circuitry such as that on the ZX-12. :-)
Doug
posted March 30, 2005 10:42 PM
Doug i was referring to how many revs after peak HP, seems strange that mine according to my dyno sheet makes its peak HP at redline and peak torque(10200) higher than what ive seen for other 10's, i suppose my question is what was Kawasaki's intention as far as revs for the motor to cut out at, 12500 or 13500??
posted March 31, 2005 08:25 AM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 31 Mar 2005 08:26
Doug... thanks for clarifying... essentially you're saying what we've already concluded on this site quite a while ago.... the 10R (at least the North American models) has no speed limiting circuitry.
____________ What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
posted March 31, 2005 01:26 PM
Doug, corrected is by way of recalibration of the display unit on the bike by electronic means to read correct speed as verified by the Dyno that is a correctly calibrated piece of equipment. I think we all know how optomistic the standard speedo reading usually is as well as the taco.
With reference to the mods on the bikes I was refering to our "Race bikes only" not my bike that is in question, I was using this as a reference only as to what can quite easily be achieved via bolt on equipment eg: Factory ECU special software and alike.
Sorry for confusion, upshot is I have ordered the TRE should be here in a week by that time the World supers will be over and we can get back to normal and I can try the unit and verify one way or the other.
____________
"Life is not a rehearsal so make the most of it" Carefully
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posted March 28, 2005 10:53 PM
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