Drowland
Zone Head
Posts: 733
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posted June 08, 2004 02:57 PM
Steering Damper help?
Alright guys. I need a damper now and don't know which one to choice. How much difference does a steering damper make on the 10R? I need more stability in the high speed corners and when speed shifting. Which one should I get and who should I buy it from??????
   
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12RPilot
Pro
Posts: 1094
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posted June 08, 2004 03:22 PM
The difference depends on the damper. Some are infinitely adjustable so you can go from no effect to Oh my God, I can't turn!! I bought the Scotts because it was only $404 but now I kinda wish I bought a GPR. I'm still not convinced I needed one, however.
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If you aren't an AMA member, you're part of the problem.
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k bryant
Needs a job
Sponsor
Posts: 2911
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posted June 08, 2004 03:49 PM
Personally, I'm waiting for the Muzzy. But if you had to choose between the GPR & Scotts, I believe the GPR is more compact and more astetically appealing. Performance wise between those two, I don't know if there is a significant amount of difference. A very fast friend of mine who works for KMC and does trackdays and local races, uses the GPR. He likes it.
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top shelf
Novice Class
Posts: 99
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posted June 08, 2004 03:55 PM
I too can vouch for the GPR. Have had one on my race bikes for the last two years and it works very well. Simple to use, and it has never failed on me when I needed it. They are using them on the factory Kawi ZX10s as well if it means anything to you. I know at one time they were doing a discount for members of zx-10r.net. Call them and let them know you are on here and they may hook you up.
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Dynosoar
Parking Attendant
Posts: 7
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posted June 08, 2004 05:13 PM
 Edited By: Dynosoar on 8 Jun 2004 18:17
There is a reason Ohlins don't sell their rotary damper (aka the 'Scotts') for street and road-race use. It was designed for something completely different - dirt racing - where the emphasis is on low speed damping. Road and track dampers are focused on high speed damping to quell headshake.
I have no experience of the GPR but I think this may be another Moto-X refugee. I do have experience of a Scotts and Ohlins stick damper on the same bike which used to shake its head like a wally at a rock concert under acceleration. The Scotts would reduce the shake but none of its many adjustments had any real effect (the Scotts has a fixed high speed orifice, the left knob controls low speed damping only - no use in this situation - and the right controls the threshold at which the high speed bypass circuit opens). In the end, it simply didn't have enough high speed damping to kill the shake. Fitting an Ohlins damper as a side mount tranformed the bike; its simple valving gave the right sort of damping increase with speed and plenty of adjustability. Just look at what sort of damper is on every single Moto-GP bike and ask yourself why.
We have a MUZZYS already on our bike and I must say I like it v. much. The mounts (the part MUZZYS make) are exceptionally well thought out for clearance and beautifully machined for a minimum of extra weight. The damper has a good adjustment range and is satisfyingly high tech looking. Never thought I'd say this, but the Ohlins on a customers 10 looked positively clunky by comparison. Its mounts are unnecessarily massive and look like they will cause significant clearance problems if you raise the fork tubes.
In my ever so humble opinion, I reckon best bet is the MUZZYS or wait until a Harris mounting is available through EMA if you must have the Ohlins. If you are in love with the rotaries, I'm sure they'll do the job, since the bike doesn't have any truly nasty habits I've found.
Nick
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ECTA Monster Mile, 2x 1000cc Production record holders on ZX-10R
www.championmotorsports.biz
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Evander
Expert Class
Posts: 130
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posted June 08, 2004 06:28 PM
Read the new Sport Rider mag. There is a comparison of 14 different dampers. Also doesn't Scotts and GPR need to modify the key to work? I've been told the rotary style damper interferes with the ignition key. True?
I'm thinking about getting the Hyperpro RSC damper. Thoughts??
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It's not the bike, it's the rider.
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gogreen
Novice Class
Posts: 34
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posted June 08, 2004 07:14 PM
In that artical they mention a clearance issue at full lock if the fork tubes are raised with the hyperpro damper. Can any comment on this if they have one installed. I like the damper but don't want to limit my suspension setup.
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bovinespongiformencephalo
Pro
variant Kreutzfeldt-Jakob
Posts: 1060
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posted June 08, 2004 08:29 PM
I put on the Scotts and the bike is cured of any tendency to headshake. You do need to take some of the huge rubber donkey clit off the key to use the Scotts. I took the whole thing off and am grateful to Scotts for providing the impetus.
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k bryant
Needs a job
Sponsor
Posts: 2911
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posted June 08, 2004 08:55 PM
gogreen - I don't recall any mod needed on the GPR. It looked smaller and tighter than the Scotts. I could be wrong, but I think the key fit with the rubber on it.
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DB
Pro
Posts: 1932
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posted June 08, 2004 09:40 PM
quote:
In that artical they mention a clearance issue at full lock if the fork tubes are raised with the hyperpro damper. Can any comment on this if they have one installed. I like the damper but don't want to limit my suspension setup.
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The tests were not done on a ZX10r
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Dan
04 ZX10r (Track only)
08 Concours14
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gogreen
Novice Class
Posts: 34
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posted June 08, 2004 10:03 PM
Yeh it was a zx6r. Just wondered if there is the same problem with the zx10r.
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DB
Pro
Posts: 1932
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posted June 08, 2004 10:12 PM
Edited By: DB on 8 Jun 2004 23:17
so per that test who won? who has the best?
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Dan
04 ZX10r (Track only)
08 Concours14
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gogreen
Novice Class
Posts: 34
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posted June 08, 2004 10:34 PM
They didn't give an outright winner. They gave the characteristics and pros and cons of each damper.
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CanyonCarver
Expert Class
Posts: 121
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posted June 09, 2004 04:20 AM
Ohlins.
But everyone here knows the ZX doesn't need a damper, right? 
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k bryant
Needs a job
Sponsor
Posts: 2911
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posted June 09, 2004 08:03 AM
quote:
But everyone here knows the ZX doesn't need a damper, right?
Thatz definetly a passionet subject that we've gone round with before. I am awaiting mine from Muzzy. That being said, I've run the 10 out extremely hard in the twisties, over bumps, hard ackward landings from wheelies, knees down, bla, bla, and found no need for panic to get the damper. I said that when I first rode it on the KMC "tour", and now with my own. I've had no "moments". I'm getting it more for the track. But you surely can't go wrong putting one on.
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D
Needs a job
Posts: 3365
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posted June 09, 2004 08:16 AM
I set mine down at 114 on a nice second gear loft yesterday while on my favorite onramp - nary a wiggle.
The only time I feel that a damper is in order is under WOT and at the top third of the tach in the first 3 gears.
I will put one on eventually but so far all of my riding has not been upset by any instability issues - only straight line accel.
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dynosoar
Parking Attendant
Posts: 7
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posted June 09, 2004 10:53 AM
Scotts needs key trimmed. MUZZYS uses hyperpro damper with nicer (IMHO) mounts that do not have a clearance problem.
Nick
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ECTA Monster Mile, 2x 1000cc Production record holders on ZX-10R
www.championmotorsports.biz
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TLR2000
Novice Class
Posts: 37
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posted June 09, 2004 11:16 AM
Canyon Carver! Can you get under that winshield? or what! Does that thing give you more downforce on the front? 
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drowland
Zone Head
Posts: 733
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posted June 09, 2004 11:53 AM
Canyon Carver! Can you get under that winshield? or what! Does that thing give you more downforce on the front?
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Orginally by TLR2000. Who makes that windshield? How does it work??
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champ91
Parking Attendant
Posts: 27
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posted June 09, 2004 04:02 PM
I have the Hyper Pro Unit installed. No clearance issues. O and FYI you do not need to modify your key for the SCOTTS either. Just flip the unit 180 degrees. Mounts the same and works the same.
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CanyonCarver
Expert Class
Posts: 121
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posted June 09, 2004 10:15 PM
quote:
Canyon Carver! Can you get under that winshield? or what! Does that thing give you more downforce on the front?
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Orginally by TLR2000. Who makes that windshield? How does it work??
It's not quite as deep as it seems from the photo. I like it a lot. Nice pocket of air to tuck into, and a surprising lack of turbulence. Supposedly, the flattened bubble shape smooths the airflow better.
It is sold by Kawasaki in the U.K. as a branded windshield, made by MRA, a German company. The plastic is quite thick, like stock, and seems pretty durable.
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pussycontrol
Parking Attendant
Posts: 10
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posted June 09, 2004 10:37 PM
Edited By: pussycontrol on 9 Jun 2004 23:50
CanyonCarver--
I have been considering an Ohlins myself (frankly, if I am going to buy a damper, Ohlins is all I will consider, I have had VERY VERY good experience with all their products).
Is that the 10R mounting hardware? Is the damper the standard Ohlins rod damper? I have gotten some flak from my dealer saying it will be at a price premium because the 10R hardware from Ohlins is very expensive. I smell bullshit. I can buy the damper for 350 online for all the other bikes, the 10R kit they want to sell me is nearly 500!
EDIT:
I have noticed this across multiple vendors, actually (now that I go do some research). Why is the Kawasaki damper so much more expensive? R1 kit is 280, and most other kits are 350ish (even bikes WITHOUT stock dampers!).
Basically, what did you do to mount it up and how much did it run you?
Thx.
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ZX10 Guy
Novice Class
Posts: 72
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posted June 10, 2004 04:03 AM
PC,
I just got my Ohlins unit from Hardracing.com. They are running some sales now. I don't know if I got the best price out there but it was decent enough for me. When I placed my order with them last Friday, they said they only had one left...the one I have on my bike now. You may want to send them an email to see if they are getting more. They will respond very quickly to your email. All of my emails were responded to in about 15 minutes. Anyways, I got it for $479.
The kit includes a bunch of mounting hardware and the damper itself. From all the pictures I've seen of other damper kits, this is very similar. It's almost like the Hyperpro in execution. The install should take less than 30 minutes. It took me longer because I decided to remove the Ohlins sticker off the damper body. I also tried to fuss with the bracket that mounts to the triple tree. I was trying to get the bracket to install straight but everytime I torqued down the steering nut...the bracket would shift to the left. I looked at CanyonCarver and I see that his bracket is positioned similar to mine. I guess if I was anal enough I could probably wedge something between the bracket and the triple tree to get it straight while I torque it down. If you saw the review in Sport Rider of steering dampers, the kit they have from Ohlins isn't at all like the ZX10's. The kit provides all the fasteners because you won't be reusing any of the stock ones. The only thing you'll reuse is the washers for the tank screws. I hadn't had a chance to run around with it yet so I can't say much about whether I like it or not. Let me know if you want more detailed stuff about how it all came together.
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CanyonCarver
Expert Class
Posts: 121
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posted June 10, 2004 06:12 AM
Edited By: CanyonCarver on 10 Jun 2004 07:18
quote:
CanyonCarver--
I have been considering an Ohlins myself (frankly, if I am going to buy a damper, Ohlins is all I will consider, I have had VERY VERY good experience with all their products).
Is that the 10R mounting hardware? Is the damper the standard Ohlins rod damper? I have gotten some flak from my dealer saying it will be at a price premium because the 10R hardware from Ohlins is very expensive. I smell bullshit. I can buy the damper for 350 online for all the other bikes, the 10R kit they want to sell me is nearly 500!
EDIT:
I have noticed this across multiple vendors, actually (now that I go do some research). Why is the Kawasaki damper so much more expensive? R1 kit is 280, and most other kits are 350ish (even bikes WITHOUT stock dampers!).
Basically, what did you do to mount it up and how much did it run you?
Thx.
The mounting kit is much better and more sturdy than the one I received for my 954. The 954 bracket that attaches under the steering stem nut used a small diameter pin to locate the bracket. It didn't do so very well and always wanted to rotate around the steering head. The ZX hardware is far superior, and more akin to what Harris was selling for the 954 (bracket-wise).
As for pricing, I paid about $470 from KyleUSA.com. Last I heard tho, was that they are out of them (or were last week). However, Kyle is a stocking distributor (I believe) and should have replacements on order already.
Mount up is simple: remove the two forward tank bolts and replace with the cross-bracket and its two longer bolts. Then, remove the stock steering stem nut and replace with bracket and new nut. Attach piston unit to the two brackets, and off you go. The steering stem bracket will not line up perfectly straight, but it doesn't matter unless you are beyond anal-retentive. I worked at it and realized that it would just place more stress on the mounting by not having the bracket wedged against something solid. So I left it alone, and try not to look too closely when the front tire is straight.
Like you, if I'm buying a damper, it's Ohlins. I think the Scotts are very nice, but it's just an aesthetic thing for me. I don't dig the looks (big gold chunk of metal on my beautiful sculpted triple-clamp). I feel the Ohlins is a bit more elegant in design. Not wanting to offend anyone, just my taste (or lack thereof). I've got other pics, if you want to see. Just let me know.
BTW, the reason the R1 and others are less expensive, is that they come with a damper stock. Therefore, just replace the damper unit, not the whole bracket arrangement. This is just my assumption, but I've seen before the price differences between bikes with stock mountings vs. bikes without.
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bovinespongiformencephalo
Pro
variant Kreutzfeldt-Jakob
Posts: 1060
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posted June 10, 2004 07:41 AM
Those little pins on the Honda kits will shear right off if you use them to keep the bracket from rotating while you torque the stem nut. I did a F4 and we cleaned the hardware and put a dab of superglue (I shit you not) under the bracket and with two people we were able to tighten it without the bracket moving. I'm sold on the Scotts now, and ease of installation is one of the reasons.
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