tigerflyboy
Novice Class
Posts: 58
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posted June 03, 2004 12:47 AM
Raced my bro's 04 R-1......
Ok so did i smoke him?????Nope...it was a dead even game until 160 mph but then i was able to pull by.. well the reason we were neck and neck was that the bastard.. dropped teeth on the front, so he hit a brick wall at 170 and i just started smiling
   
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marco383
Expert Class
Posts: 145
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posted June 03, 2004 04:28 AM
Based on magazine tests, not a surprise. The 10R, R1 and Gixxer are so close in acceleration that rider weight is probably a major factor.
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CJzx-10r
Novice Class
Posts: 70
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posted June 03, 2004 05:13 AM
Also the -1 front spocket allowed him to accelarate faster. You would have pull him from the start.
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jhhoffman1
Parking Attendant
Posts: 4
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posted June 03, 2004 10:44 AM
Ya I raced my friends r1 we both have one tooth down in the front. We raced 4 times roll ons starting any where from 20 mph to 50 mph I would beat him by 1 or 2 bike length maybe a little more up to 150 from 150 on though my 10 would walk away from him not sure why he weights about 20 lbs mor than me.
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engineermike
Expert Class
Posts: 101
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posted June 03, 2004 02:14 PM
quote:
Also the -1 front spocket allowed him to accelarate faster. . .
Only in 1st gear.
Mike
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'04 Orange 10R
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tigerflyboy
Novice Class
Posts: 58
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posted June 03, 2004 03:37 PM
He was down two teeth on the front, and we were neck and neck till he ran out of steam, without the gear change i would have pulled him sooner...
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engineermike
Expert Class
Posts: 101
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posted June 03, 2004 03:52 PM
or not at all. . .
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'04 Orange 10R
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ice 1
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted June 03, 2004 05:05 PM
engineermike -
please explain how you determined that a smaller front sprocket will only aid acceleration in first gear.
does...not...compute
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engineermike
Expert Class
Posts: 101
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posted June 03, 2004 06:05 PM
It will help acceleration in every gear, but the gears will top out at a lower speed.
Let's compare two bikes, one with 17 tooth front, the other with 15. They both roll on at 70 mph in 1st gear. The bike with the 15 has 13% more pull, so it pulls ahead. BUT, his 1st gear tops out at 92 mph, so he has to shift to 2nd. The 17 tooth bike is still in 1st, though, until 104. So, from 92 to 104, the 17 tooth bike has an advantage. When he shifts to 2nd, though, the 15 tooth bike has an advantage again because they're both in the same tranny gear, but the sprocket ratio is better. This goes on through all gears until the 15 tooth bike tops out . . .
Mike
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'04 Orange 10R
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ice 1
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted June 03, 2004 06:46 PM
OK - as long as you agree that it will help out acceleration in every gear. Kinda looked different the way you posted it at first.
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che
Parking Attendant
Posts: 5
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posted June 03, 2004 07:07 PM
The term is known as "mechanical advantage", and is, as stated correctly, only advantageous through first gear. The moment it is shifted into second the advantage is gone. In fact, a lower geared bike becomes a disadvantage against a stock-geared bike during the lower part of each gear. So don't think that gearing your bike is going to make it accelerate harder through the gears.
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wwwrxxx
Novice Class
Posts: 80
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posted June 04, 2004 04:20 AM
gearing it will make it quicker every gear. tried and tested.
1 tooth is a big difference on the front.
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ice 1
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted June 04, 2004 06:28 AM
Please explain how the "mechanical advantage" magically dissappears after first gear.
Once again, it just does not compute.
Or just go the track and try it  You will become a believer.
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big daddy
Zone Head
Posts: 616
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posted June 04, 2004 07:17 AM
I too would like to hear the theory behind the mysterious mechanical advantage loss after 1st gear.
BD
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dket
Expert Class
Posts: 189
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posted June 04, 2004 09:02 AM
I got my pop corn ready for this one . Che we are all ears .
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engineermike
Expert Class
Posts: 101
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posted June 04, 2004 10:39 AM
quote:
. . .Let's compare two bikes, one with 17 tooth front, the other with 15. They both roll on at 70 mph in 1st gear. The bike with the 15 has 13% more pull, so it pulls ahead. BUT, his 1st gear tops out at 92 mph, so he has to shift to 2nd. The 17 tooth bike is still in 1st, though, until 104. So, from 92 to 104, the 17 tooth bike has an advantage. When he shifts to 2nd, though, the 15 tooth bike has an advantage again because they're both in the same tranny gear, but the sprocket ratio is better. This goes on through all gears until the 15 tooth bike tops out . . .
Mike
I hate to repeat myself.
If re-gearing helped you at all speeds, you could build that into the transmission. You wouldn't need alot of horsepower anymore, you could just gear it way down!!!
A geared bike runs better at the track because, again, 1st gear pulls harder, but that's where the advantage stops.
Mike
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'04 Orange 10R
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roym3
Novice Class
Posts: 43
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posted June 04, 2004 11:12 AM
Mike,
My experience exactly.Track advantages only dropping teeth.[1/4 mile/roadrace].
For roll ons,as long as I can start at proper rpm,My bikes[ZX12R,Zx10R] both dropped 2 teeth from stock rear,still accelerate as good/better than stock/shorter gears.
Same with my cars.Roll ons against short gears are great,for me.It seems like the extra time advantage in the taller gears never gets made up by the shorter geared machine[in roll ons].
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engineermike
Expert Class
Posts: 101
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posted June 04, 2004 12:07 PM
 Edited By: engineermike on 4 Jun 2004 13:25
OK, I ran the numbers and here goes:
The ratios listed are the overall reduction ratios, including the primary reduction ratio, tranny gear ratio, and final reduction (sprocket). It compares 15 versus 17 tooth front and 39 rear.
Speed ___ 15 ___ 17
0-92 ___ 10.61 _ 9.36
92-104 __ 8.60 _ 9.36
104-114 _ 8.60 _ 7.59
114-129 _ 7.28 _ 7.59
129-134 _ 7.28 _ 6.42
134-152 _ 6.38 _ 6.42
152-153 _ 6.38 _ 5.63
153-169 _ 5.78 _ 5.63
169-173 _ 5.46 _ 5.63
173-179 _ 5.46 _ 5.10
179-191 ___ X _ 5.10
191-203 ___ X _ 4.82
I calculated a percentage improvement (or reduction) in mechanical advantage for each range, then multiplied by the speed range applicable to get a "weighted" advantage going to 15 from 17 teeth.
From 0 to 179 (15 tooth's top speed), the 15 tooth has an average weighted advantage of 9.81%. But, when 1st gear is taken out of the picture, the weighted average from 92 to 173 becomes -0.7%, or a wash.
Mike
____________
'04 Orange 10R
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