Drowland
Zone Head
Posts: 733
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posted June 06, 2004 06:47 AM
Anyone else familiar with this speedohealer? Have you actually witnessed the top end?
   
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12RPilot
Pro
Posts: 1094
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posted June 06, 2004 07:19 AM
quote:
OK, I just looked at the Gear Indicator link posted above.
This won't work. What is needed is an easy way to determine if the voltage on Wire 2 is a particular value (within a range).
Wire 3 appears to be there to source the voltage and it's resistor is to drop the output signal from the switch into the CMOS range.
Wire 1 is used only to indicate neutral when it's voltage is 0 (ground). This is probably to tell the ECU to let the bike run when the kickstand is down.
The easy way to do this is to use resistors of the same values as in the switch and the same input voltage, and use AND gates or comparators to determine the gear. Doing this, it's probably best to use a 7-segment driver as well rather than a complicated network of segment circuits.
I have no EDA tools on my home computer. Someone want to draw this up?
Way over my head pal. What's an EDA?
____________
If you aren't an AMA member, you're part of the problem.
NESBA #209
http://www.bikepics.com/members/12rpilot/04zx10r/
 
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andy
Expert Class
Posts: 220
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posted June 06, 2004 01:32 PM
quote:
Andy, Have you or anybody that you know have tried this unit??? And how hard is it to put on?
Mine is still in the mail.
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Michael Lee
Zone Head
Purchase Ivy
Posts: 729
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posted June 06, 2004 02:13 PM
Thanks for everyone's input; especially yours Ivan. I bought a stainless Akra F/S and kept kicking myself in the head for not getting one of the higher end models.
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Ivan
Parking Attendant
Posts: 10
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posted June 07, 2004 04:00 AM
quote:
Ivan- Are you developing maps for the various systems?
I have 2 maps so far.... one for slip-ons, and one for Akrapovic full systems.
Ivan
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www.ivansperformanceproducts.com
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kz2zx
Pro
Nobody in Particular
Posts: 1166
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posted June 07, 2004 05:12 AM
quote:
quote:
I have no EDA tools on my home computer. Someone want to draw this up?
Way over my head pal. What's an EDA?
Electronic design assistant, I think... programs like OrCAD (or whatever they're called now) that let you place parts in a schematic, invoke pSPICE to emulate the circuit, do analysis, then route the circuitboard to build the circuit.
Freaking expensive for an individual. Something this small could be gotten away with by using a demo version (that limits parts placement). I could draw the circuit in Visio, but something connected to pSPICE would let me check out the circuit to be sure it didn't oscillate or something silly (can happen with op-amps/comparitors/gates very easily).
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ASMA 47
WERA 147
www.dhowellbooks.com
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extremelean
Pro
Posts: 1651
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posted June 07, 2004 02:30 PM
speedo
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bovinespongiformencephalo
Pro
variant Kreutzfeldt-Jakob
Posts: 1060
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posted June 07, 2004 04:59 PM
quote:
quote:
Ivan- Are you developing maps for the various systems?
I have 2 maps so far.... one for slip-ons, and one for Akrapovic full systems.
Ivan
Thanks, I'll give you a call.
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Zed
Expert Class
Posts: 118
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posted June 08, 2004 03:21 PM
For the techs...
It seems that within the ECU is a 5V reference voltage. There is then a voltage divider with a top R of @ 1k65 and the bottom R comprising of 9k09 in parallel with the selected gear resistor. This arrangement gives a Vneutral of 4.23V, V1st to be 3.06V, and I havn't yet calculated/measured the rest.
I am using a PIC16F873, which has a 10bit comparator on board. This allows measurement down to about 0.005V resolution. More than enough for this application. In fact the chip is overkill, but it was in the junk box, along with a big fat 0.8" 7 segment display. The 12V supply from the bike electrics is converted and filtered to 5V (78L05) for supplying both PIC and display. Brightness is controlled by a BC212 transistor chopping the anode current of the display (day/night). Reverse protection is given by a diode.
The adc of the PIC has a high input impedance, so should not affect the gear voltage presented to the ECU. However, if there is any hint interference, I'll employ a unity gain buffer amp, to give improved isolation.
The gizmo box will be quite small, and will be impregnated with a suitable resin to provide moisture protection. I hope to bolt some bits on by the weekend. There will be lots of spare I/O, so I'd be interested in any ideas.
Does anyone know the signal method employed to drive the LCD rev counter? My PIC could convert PWM or whatever to a format suitable for an analog tach, maybe...
Poor bike. It's in bits... Waaa.
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Live long, and Faster
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bovinespongiformencephalo
Pro
variant Kreutzfeldt-Jakob
Posts: 1060
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posted June 08, 2004 08:39 PM
Dunno what they drive the tach with, but it's compatable with generic GPI units that compare tach and speed signals to display gear position. I'd guess that would make it compatable with a standard tach, and I'd pay real $ for a nice, flat, analog tach to sit on top of my gauge pod.
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kz2zx
Pro
Nobody in Particular
Posts: 1166
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posted June 08, 2004 09:24 PM
Zed,
I think it's simple pulse rate, not pwm. Use a counter, interrupt on overflow or poll/sample. I don't think anything more than a 16F84 is needed...
All you're trying to do is correct the pulse rate, right?
____________
ASMA 47
WERA 147
www.dhowellbooks.com
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Zed
Expert Class
Posts: 118
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posted June 09, 2004 07:53 AM
kz2zx,
I am not trying to correct the tacho pulse rate. I was thinking about using the spare capacity of the 16F873 I'm employing as a gear indicator, to convert the drive signal of the lcd tacho, to whatever is needed for a conventional analog tach.
Point taken about using interrupts and an '84 for a corrector, but I need a chip with built-in adc for my gear ind, hence the '84 is not suitable.
I was toying with the idea of a line of 7-segs for the top/bottom of the number plate, where you could flash silly little one-liners such as "bye-bye", "eat dirt" etc. However, I best act my age...
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Live long, and Faster
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roym3
Novice Class
Posts: 43
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posted June 09, 2004 11:11 AM
Tach pulse rate also needs correcting.It is 250 rpm optimistic[3750=4000rpm indicated]
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12RPilot
Pro
Posts: 1094
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posted June 09, 2004 03:04 PM
Will the 78L05 supply enough current for one of the high brightness seven segment displays? I know that a regular display will be hard to see in sunlight.
____________
If you aren't an AMA member, you're part of the problem.
NESBA #209
http://www.bikepics.com/members/12rpilot/04zx10r/
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Zed
Expert Class
Posts: 118
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posted June 09, 2004 03:23 PM
Right. Now I've spliced into the GPS leads properly (sensor side of the connector), and put things back together, I can confirm that the top resistor in the divider is 1k5. The bottom Requiv is the unmarked resistor in the GPS schematic in parallel with the selected gear resistor. Hence actual readings are:
Neutral = 4.3V
1st = 3.1V
2nd = 2.51V
3rd = 2.05V
4th = 1.61V
5th = 1.16V
6th = 0.77V
The only rock steady voltage is Vneutral. The others vary slightly each time you engage a particular gear, but we are talking a gnats cock here... This is due to the contact resistance of the switch.
My PIC program will be set to recognise the mid point between each gear voltage (maybe biased one way but I'm still pondering). I have still to calc the likely voltage spreads due to the permissible GPS resistance tolerances stated in the manual...
I hope to ride her with a display and controller fitted tom or Fri night. I'll let you guys know how effective it is, and all details will be made available to whoever wants them. I will make the hex code for the chips available too, and may be able to program some beasties if demand is there.
I have yet to source a suitable display enclosure, but I imagine the component cost of my gear indicator circuitry to be around £12 ie $20 ish... Don't know how the US components are priced. If it's like everything else, US cost could be around $12....
I believe the design will be quite robust. I may get time to give it a few hours in an environmental chamber at work, and take it over the range -30c to +85c, but then again, I may be getting carried away... My bench model has been running for 50+ hours now, dsplaying "6" most of the time, as that causes greater current to be drawn (max of 60mA) from a 13.8v supply.
Time for bed. I was woken up this morning at sparrow's fart by a magpie pecking away at the plastic guttering just above my bedroom's open window. I'm shagged due to a long road-run in hi temps, and it's now past midnight. Yawn...
Keep safe, Boys.
____________
Live long, and Faster
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kz2zx
Pro
Nobody in Particular
Posts: 1166
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posted June 09, 2004 03:39 PM
Ah, Zed -
You'll be wanting a PID logic loop and a stepper-motor driver task. These are neat stuff, and there are examples on the 'net. But, I'd be willing to bet all you need to do is recalibrate the tach signal if you use an instrument from a wrecked bike (like maybe an R1?), since the cluster probably takes in a pulse tach signal.
I too thought about the ADC on a micro for the gear indicator, but the comparator approach with a 7-segment driver could be built by the average guy w/o needing a PIC programmer (or playing games with resistors and COM ports).
____________
ASMA 47
WERA 147
www.dhowellbooks.com
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Zed
Expert Class
Posts: 118
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posted June 10, 2004 08:40 AM
kz2zx,
if I ever get a pdf copy of the manual that is supposed to be surfacing soon, I'll 'scope the tacho signal, and let you know what it's like, just for interests' sake. I don't really want an analog tach for myself, but others have expressed a wish for one, so I thought it may be an interesting exercise to see how to do it.
However, I do want my gear indicator  On the subject of construction, yes, programming is an issue, but were a pre-programmed PIC available, the circuit's construction would be far easier than one that employs comparators, gates and resistor chains. I bet the component count is lower with the pic. Plus, there is a chance of expansion by way of other tacked on goodies...
Still, I have yet to prove mine on the bike, and comparator based ones are in use already...
See ya.
____________
Live long, and Faster
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swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
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posted June 11, 2004 06:48 AM
Man, nice read! Glad to see you guys getting into this problem/request. Good luck with it!
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kawpower
Zone Head
Mr kawasaki 2 you!
Posts: 887
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posted June 11, 2004 09:40 AM
Is there a way to check fuel pressure in 5th and 6th gear when the limiter comes on, someting like a teltale on a boost gauge? just a thought, now back to the 12r cave.
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Zed
Expert Class
Posts: 118
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posted June 11, 2004 02:41 PM
Don't mean to be thick, but when you say check, do you mean control or read the fuel pressure? Please expand on the aim. My controller could certainly read data from a pressure sensor in the fuel-line, when in the required gears, and depending on the reading, do whatever...
The gear indicator board I'm using on the bike for tomorrow's trial run is a prototype on veroboard. Hope to take some piccies. Once the design is finalised, I'll be making a proper board on the work's pcb routeing machine, which will then be boxed up and coated with resin both sides. I love the size of the display I'm using - people will be able to see what gear I'm in as I pass 'em... Hee hee.
____________
Live long, and Faster
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Zed
Expert Class
Posts: 118
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posted June 11, 2004 02:57 PM
quote:
Will the 78L05 supply enough current for one of the high brightness seven segment displays? I know that a regular display will be hard to see in sunlight.
Hope so, Pilot! The display I'm using seems plenty bright enough with @ 10mA per segment, with total box drain being under 60mA. However, I'm riding with it fitted over the weekend, to check for brightness and operation...
I had programmed an input to dim the display for night-riding. However, I guess a manual switch would be needed for this, because with these new-fangled modern bikes the headlight is on all the time. Pretty pointless dimming with the main-beam only.
Could be silly and fit a light sensor I suppose
____________
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kawpower
Zone Head
Mr kawasaki 2 you!
Posts: 887
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posted June 14, 2004 04:41 AM
Am i the only one that heard the clue XL gave , listen close he said SPEEDO.
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Zed
Expert Class
Posts: 118
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posted June 15, 2004 12:55 PM
Nope, Still didn't hear...
My gear indicator worked very well on the trial, with good response. Just need more candlepower in bright sunlight (OK, Pilot!) . I'll be increasing the current to the display after the next England game...
I think I prefer "0" to show neutral, instead of "n". I had all the bits in the junk-box, so cost so far is £0.00. I do need to buy a wee case for the display though, and get a bud to fashion up a blackened support bracket.
No more fishing for 7th...
____________
Live long, and Faster
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swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
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posted June 16, 2004 03:42 AM
Thanks Zed!
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12RPilot
Pro
Posts: 1094
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posted June 18, 2004 03:34 AM
Zed , this is sounding very promising. If I may, I'd like to ask for your thoughts on a device to drive a really bright shift light. I would like to open up the gauges and tap off the dim little LED that the stock shifter light uses (if that is the easiest way).
____________
If you aren't an AMA member, you're part of the problem.
NESBA #209
http://www.bikepics.com/members/12rpilot/04zx10r/
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