runninhorn
Expert Class
Posts: 442
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posted May 03, 2004 04:28 PM
Do you agree or disagree with this guy's breakin methods?
Guy has some pretty good info here, im not a auto engineer, just checking to see if this makes sense, if so, ill be using these techniques to break my bike in 
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
   
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sasrac575
Parking Attendant
Posts: 28
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posted May 03, 2004 04:48 PM
proven method
i broke my black zx10r the same way ive broke in all my bike for decades....
3-4 heat cycles around the 5000 to 7000 rpm range then run the bike the way its going to be riden.....break in fast run fast......ive used this metod for all of my new race only bike and for all my street bikes (around 20) all of these machines ran better abd faster than the bikes i was copeteing against and all had a long and speedy life...
I PROMISE...
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runninhorn
Expert Class
Posts: 442
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posted May 03, 2004 06:43 PM
Ok, so ive got nine miles on it right now, will go get some 10w40 Havoline tonite at walmart, and will go break it in some more tomorrow down the access road. My only question now is how long should I "ride it kinda hard" tomorrow? Meaning, ill start from a roll, take it hard up to about 65 mph thru 3 or 4th gear, then take it back down, how many passes/times should I do this before coming back and dumping the oil? 10 miles worth? And when I allow it to cool, how long do you feel is adequate time to cool, 30 mins, hour?
Oh, and what is your definition of a true/complete heat cycle?
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JNM
Expert Class
Posts: 109
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posted May 03, 2004 07:13 PM
Whoa, dude you're way off. "Take it hard to 65 MPH through 3rd or 4th." You might reach 4K RPM. That ain't gonna do shit. The bike goes 101 MPH in 1st! Forget about MPH during break-in. Take it out for 10 to 15 minute intervals; run it to a max of maybe 7K RPM for short bursts only. Let it cool completely(read: at least 3 hours) between runs. Do this 3 or 4 times. After 100 or so miles, start bringing the revs up (10K). After 200 miles, let her rip - but again mostly short bursts. No sustained long runs at the same RPMs, and do not lug the motor at all - very bad. No need to change the oil until 600 miles. I changed mine at 608 and it was clean as a whistle. Good luck.
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CCS #428
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runninhorn
Expert Class
Posts: 442
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posted May 03, 2004 07:16 PM
 Edited By: runninhorn on 3 May 2004 20:26
quote:
Whoa, dude you're way off. "Take it hard to 65 MPH through 3rd or 4th." You might reach 4K RPM. That ain't gonna do shit. The bike goes 101 MPH in 1st! Forget about MPH during break-in. Take it out for 10 to 15 minute intervals; run it to a max of maybe 7K RPM for short bursts only. Let it cool completely(read: at least 3 hours) between runs. Do this 3 or 4 times. After 100 or so miles, start bringing the revs up (10K). After 200 miles, let her rip - but again mostly short bursts. No sustained long runs at the same RPMs, and do not lug the motor at all - very bad. No need to change the oil until 600 miles. I changed mine at 608 and it was clean as a whistle. Good luck.
so how long/mileage would you do per cycle early? I also didnt want to be too aggressive on it early in order to let the trans gears develop smooth faces and let the gearbox break in correctly, or is this something I shouldnt be concerned about?
........thanks for the info........
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JNM
Expert Class
Posts: 109
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posted May 03, 2004 07:31 PM
Edited By: JNM on 3 May 2004 20:37
Definitely focus on RPM. Vary the RPM as much as possible. Run through the tranny some if you want, but it will shift smoother with time and a change to synthetic at 2000 miles. Be careful running through the gears as you may inadvertantly be lugging the motor in 6th. These things are very well put together, and someone would have to do something really stupid to do serious damage. I'm merely giving you some guidelines, and you have to do what is comfortable. Kawasakis break-in guidelines are very conservative so as to avoid possible abuse. Following their guidelines makes no sense to me and I bet most tuners. I see guys break their bikes in all the time at the track, and trust me they ain't wimping the thing along for 1000 miles at nothing over 6K RPM. My 10 was already seeing redline just after 200 miles, and the thing just keeps getting better and better. But again remember, short bursts only.
For the heat cycles, just take her out for a quick 10 minute blast. But again, vary the RPM and bring her to 6 or 7K - short bursts. Bring it home and let it cool COMPLETELY. Sounds like a pain in the ass, but its well worth it. You've already done 1 with your 9 mile ride home.
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CCS #428
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Hamilton
Novice Class
Posts: 49
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posted May 03, 2004 08:23 PM
I disagree, but that's my choice. There's never been any data proving that breaking an engine in hard will make it run hard. My buddy, who builds engines for Toyota Racing, told me they never break a race engine in that way, they are all done on the dyno using moderate to light loads.
And I'll guarantee that after breaking an engine in with that moto method that there will be plenty of cross-hatch left on the cylinder walls. That stuff takes a lot of miles to seat in, it ain't gonna happen by doing a couple of zips down an open road.
But...what do I know, except that I'm just an old worn out mechanic, for 26 years. lol To each his own...do what you want.
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palomartian
Novice Class
Posts: 46
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posted May 03, 2004 08:43 PM
I break in my bikes the mototune way for one simple reason. It works. The best part is it takes about an hour if you use the dyno method on a road or track. Just make sure you have a mile or so of staight, safe, deserted road. Redline in 4th is getting towards 170mph. After you finish, you can proceed to thrash the bike like it deserves, with huge power and no oil consumption. The naysayers will tell you otherwise but they haven't done it, have they?
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DB
Pro
Posts: 1932
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posted May 03, 2004 11:48 PM
That's why when it comes to buying motorcycles I ALWAYS buy new.
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Dan
04 ZX10r (Track only)
08 Concours14
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runninhorn
Expert Class
Posts: 442
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posted May 04, 2004 05:04 AM
quote:
That's why when it comes to buying motorcycles I ALWAYS buy new.
why?
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palomartian
Novice Class
Posts: 46
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posted May 04, 2004 06:03 AM
Why? Like most people he rejects new information because it conflicts with something he's always believed. Fortunately, there are a few people willing to take a chance and we are rewarded when things go well. Sure we see a few failures, but then you don't do that stuff twice. The net result is progress. It's a beautiful thing.
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runninhorn
Expert Class
Posts: 442
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posted May 04, 2004 06:06 AM
quote:
Why? Like most people he rejects new information because it conflicts with something he's always believed. Fortunately, there are a few people willing to take a chance and we are rewarded when things go well. Sure we see a few failures, but then you don't do that stuff twice. The net result is progress. It's a beautiful thing.
So which method do u use to break in your bikes?
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salsa1
Needs a life
Posts: 5971
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posted May 04, 2004 06:47 AM
Edited By: salsa1 on 4 May 2004 08:06
Depends who you ask or talk to ;I live surrounded with manufacturers recomendations in my line of work and live my carreer with real world engineers, insurance issues on expensive high voltage equipment failures, maintenance ect ect...ect and I feel current manufacturers recomendations for ZX-10R is way overboard and outdated. Just my opinion regardless of forum know it alls which number of post regulate how much they know. Sorry if the shoe fits whoever.
Engineers which I happen to be one are notorious to cover our arses with safety margins and over design.
I breakin my ZX-10R with repeated heat cycles and do wait over 500 miles before taking to 13,000rpm. Run still as break-in until about 900 miles.
I allow to cool down (2-3 hrs) after 15-20 min runs during first 500 miles or so to be safe; this includes varying speeds almost all the time incrementing rpm spurts to 6,000-8,000 rpm mostly and do only a few spurts to 10,000.
I follow middle ground of both extreems. Also Yamaha has their recomended breakin for R1 which is light years ahead of Kawasaki for ZX-10R and close to what makes sense. Can search on forum for yourself.
You have to decide what makes more sense to you I would ignore paranoid overbearing people who can't see past themselves and their little narrowminded fears. Honestly they make me mad. But I am over it now hehe.
Do your own research. I have even found aircraft engines articles on web trying to inform why too easy break-in is bad and hard is good; just need to define what is meant by "Hard".
If you take a new engine and run the holy crap out of it out of the crate with no method you will most likley destroy it. Avoid long first rides (over 30 min avg.) during heat cycles to avoid overheating for one.
Also you might get someone with Kawasaki ties in their business to tell you do it by the book; also questionable with all due respect. For one the book is terribly vauge for another Kawasaki could feel crossed if they say anything else.
My ZX-10R motor is getting sweeter and sweeter; 1600 miles now and smooth as glass.
You will be fine I believe;just expect more than one half baked opinion on this one.
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Salsa1
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runninhorn
Expert Class
Posts: 442
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posted May 04, 2004 06:51 AM
Thanks salsa, so in the first few miles, you were doing short heat cycles, in 1st and 2nd taking it up to 6k-8k? How often did you change your oil? My heat cycles are 10-15 miles long right now, how long before I can lengthen them? My commute to work is like 20 mins via the freeway, would you recommend to ride it to work, or not to?
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salsa1
Needs a life
Posts: 5971
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posted May 04, 2004 07:29 AM
Edited By: salsa1 on 4 May 2004 08:32
The meek will inherit the earth....
Ok runninghorn: I do not see a problem with 20 min avg. freeway runs but I would be varying engine speed just about all the time regardless of where Irun in the begining 3-4 hundred miles (minimum). Do not have many speed bursts to 6-8k rpm maybe 3-4 per trip to keep heat in check.
I avoided short burst in first gear as reaserch I found used 2nd 3rd and 4th and made no mention of using first gear. Just what I did...
Do not be paranoid you can cruise at 5th or 6th just do not crack throttle much in these high gears to avoid lugging. But 3rd and 4th is fine for varying speeds and is better to be sure.
I changed oil at 100 miles (20-50W) ,600 miles and will switch to synthetic at 2000 miles.
Advance auto or pep boys type stores have a tool to fit oil filter for a few dollars (you will need.)
I have given you my personal guidelines I bet anything will be a safe breakin if anything I am conservative and oversafe in my opinion anyways.
You will be fine with 10 -15 min heat cycles at home;Enjoy your ZX-10R and get a steering damper for more controllable fun.
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Salsa1
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runninhorn
Expert Class
Posts: 442
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posted May 04, 2004 07:34 AM
Cool, thanks for the info.
What steering damper do u have? recommend?
Honestly ive never changed my oil before, used to live with a suzuki mechanic who did all the maintenance on my bike for free for exchange for rent.........so do you have to remove the right side fairing im guessing? I change the oil on all my other vehicles, just never the bike, will go to walmart and get the tools, will drop the oil sometime tonite........
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k bryant
Needs a job
Sponsor
Posts: 2911
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posted May 04, 2004 07:47 AM
Guys, everyone has an opinion on this subject and we've hashed this out many times.
#1 - It's your bike, you paid for it. Break it in as you see fit.
#2 - The most reliable expert on this subject Kawasaki. The other "experts" can debate all day long, but they are not the designers, manufacture, or builder of this particular engine. A state-of-the-art engine designed to run trouble free for 10's of thousands of miles.
#3 - Race engines are a completely different breed and designed for "X" amount of hours before tear-down. Don't confuse the two.
#4 - Try to determine the difference between a "opinion" by some, and an expert's tangible advice from another.
#5 - My "expert" advice - Break it in by Kawasaki's recomendation.
#6 - And most important, refer to #1 if you disagree. 
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
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posted May 04, 2004 08:22 AM
thank you, voice of reason!
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted May 04, 2004 08:23 AM
oh geez, i think this topic annoys me even more than inconsistent dyno results. so many people spewing hearsay and unproven theories and then calling everyone on the other side of the issue close minded or idiots or whatever. as usual, both sides have valid points, but until i see a scientific study of the 2 methods, repeated over at least 10 bikes each, i'm not gonna take either's word as gospel. in the meantime, i figure the best bet is the manufacturer's suggestion. but as kbryant points out, refer to #1
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Zed
Expert Class
Posts: 118
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posted May 04, 2004 08:30 AM
Hey KB, are you saying "Break-in in haste, repent at leisure?". I am an old timer, and feel better having the engine, clutch, gearbox, brakes, susp etc, etc all bed-in together over the recommended period, improving the bike's synergy. Spotty-dog. What's a few days...
Not only that, but my bike is breaking me in nicely too.
I am glad some members are forging ahead with new methods. Maybe the big K will modify their recommendations one day, but until then...
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Live long, and Faster
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salsa1
Needs a life
Posts: 5971
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posted May 04, 2004 08:40 AM
Edited By: salsa1 on 4 May 2004 09:43
Recomend Scotts steering damper ;ohlins will make one unless you race at track scotts will be fine ;huge improvement for street and centrally located looks better as Isee it.
Yes both lower fairing needs to come off ;some have done with just one side off I have not tried that way. There are about five plastic fairing buttons which pop out from center of round plastic button with skinny screwdriver.
Kawasaki is a corporation and all manufacturers have design flaws and not so perfect recomendations. Kawasaki designed into the Ninja ZX-11 third rod bearing failures for years without correction and second gear tranny failures both in same bike and cost Kawasaki owners a bunch of money the which they took little or no responsibility over .
I beg to differ they are unquestionable experts.
I know to each its own. Quality control is not what it should always be from manufacturers. I would not break my street bike like a race bike but neither like old maid recomendations in place.
Why has Yamaha changed their break in procedure to customer just recently on 2004 R1. Let take in all the evidence not just a few selective assumptions.
I spoke my peace. ZX-10R is best bike from ninja line ever;I hope but that it.I do not bet my life on it. Time will tell.
Have fun you will not break anything unless you are really neglectfull or have factory a defect.
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Salsa1
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
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posted May 04, 2004 08:50 AM
Do you have ANY idea who kbryant IS??? salsa?
*note to self.. LISTEN TO KBRYANT
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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salsa1
Needs a life
Posts: 5971
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posted May 04, 2004 10:16 AM
Edited By: salsa1 on 4 May 2004 11:25
Ok I will have to guess ...Someone succesfull at breaking it in by the book.
No one says manufacturer is giving deadly recomendations.No desrespect to achievments by anyone at a track ;or someone you highly respect for whatever reason. Thats besides the points being presented here.
My pocket book has been hit hard by Kawasaki and their claimed expertise regardless of who anyone is so excuse me if I dance to my own tune; I worship God on sundays not another intelligent mortal with the right to self determination just like me.
I fellowship with people and make good friends with them when I can. Not necessarily agree with everything they claim. Listen carfully where my stand is if you like ;if not ignore it whats the problem? everyone should believe in something in a free society.
Just giving some facts to someone with an open mind asking for help; many others agree with unconventional views and all together outweigh the assumtions of any one individual as in that number of people there has also been many bikes succesfully broken-in and running seemingly better .
Procedures are much like Yamaha has printed. Yourself have posted just the other day. Come on; do you say Yamaha is printing bogus material to dealers?
early on I felt attacked when I gave my opinion and inquired . Really I have no problem standing firmly in what I believe or stating why; not telling anyone what to believe. Thats fair.
If you can intelligently or scientifically prove given theories or Yamaha wrong I am man enough to admit. So far not even close so I let this subject die as we all should after a while. If someone asks I will tell them what I believe and have more evidence for . Not personal.
If you object to people speaking up or are sugesting this subject should not be brought up ok by me makes me no real difference. I have done or wish wrong to no anyone. I am the happiest man I know; really.
Have fun.
Thanks for having a great site.
I have no further reason to contribute to subject just answering someones request.
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Salsa1
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runninhorn
Expert Class
Posts: 442
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posted May 04, 2004 10:34 AM
Man, just got back from breaking it in some more, got about 30 miles on it now, and are those rear view mirrors the most useless things??? I cant see hardly anything in them, I block more of the view out of them myself than anything, just wondering if it was me or the mirrors.....
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
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posted May 04, 2004 11:13 AM
so then I take it you dont know who kbryant is 
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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