fish_antlers
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posted April 17, 2004 08:17 AM
Emissions question for exhaust manufacturers
I am wondering the aftermarket will be forced to included some sort of emissions control/cat in their systems? Is there a move like this afoot and if so what can we expect?
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RobMuzzy
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posted April 17, 2004 08:27 AM
Fish-When we are required to do so we will have to comply. There are many high perf cat's available. We have not had one customer request to date.
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GTracer
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posted April 17, 2004 08:28 AM
Most of the aftermarket systems are for "racing use only", and that's the way I think it'll be for a long time. Building a emissions control system for an aftermarket system would be ridiculously expensive as the emissions control apparatus would pretty much need to be taylor made for each bike model and sales area.
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fish_antlers
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posted April 17, 2004 08:37 AM
I was just thinking about some norcal peolple who were posting that they were being pulled over by the CHP and had their bikes ticketed for non compliance for visou things such as aftermartket exhaust etc.. Was wondering if there would end up being a trickle down effect to the after market manufacturers... Dont know how strong the enviro lobby is against bikes rightnow..
was just wondering out loud.
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k bryant
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posted April 17, 2004 08:45 AM
Echo Rob's view.
There's always been some confusion with the market as to exactly what "emissions" are the issue; sound or fuel/exhaust. Most of us have been addressing the sound issue in one form or another. But everytime we design and/or mfg quieter systems, they sit in the warehouse and simply don't sell.
But back to your question on pure emissions control/cats, we can indeed do this and there are many choices right now to start. What will be more interesting for the mfg, is what testing/certs will be required and/or mandated to be "legal". Then if you are indeed legal in the fuel/emissions area and stamp the product as such, then what happens when the exhaust noise is higher than 80dbA? Are you legal or not?
It will be interesting to see #1, what the consumer wants. And #2, will we all be selling them as "racing use only". Prices will vary substantially on the answers to those questions.
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Erich
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posted April 17, 2004 08:53 AM
 Edited By: Erich on 17 Apr 2004 10:19
The CHP does this for the DOT noise requirement (alot of times more than for the CARB reason), and that is their tip off.
When they are enforcing heavily in my area of our little socialist republic, its primarily due to increased complaints about stunters and kids doing street racing.
In thos scenarios, they also right you for non DOT lighting, like those cool flush mounts and mini turn signals or modified LED's
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k bryant
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posted April 17, 2004 09:01 AM
So true. It's the noise that normally gets their attention first. Then the actions. Then when you are stopped and depending on what you did, and you're attitude (or theirs) you may very well get the full once-over on the rest of the bike.
Knock on wood, everytime I've been stopped, it's simply for my actions. Not for the exhaust, flush mounts, mini stalkers, fender eliminator, etc...
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RobMuzzy
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posted April 17, 2004 09:03 AM
Federal standards require that a replacement exhaust be of equal quality and meterials as the original. The auto industry has fought and been successful at maintaining there performance industry. Unfortunately the motorcycle performance industry does not have an organization like SEMA. The MIC is first and foremost interested in the motorcycle manufactures agenda.
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kz2zx
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posted April 17, 2004 10:13 AM
Rob, the AMA sent me a renewal packet, and in there they were lining up the issues they were planning on fighting in Congress this year.
One of them was aftermarket exhausts and other performance equipment.
It seems to me there would be a lot of interest in the manufacturer's camp to keep a healthy aftermarket going; it's certainly in my interest as a consumer.
What does it take to hold a conference and create an aftermarketer's organization that could lobby? Or to join SEMA (which I guess from your context is the Automotive equivalent)?
I'm guessing it's dues, non-profit paperwork, and someone's time to set up offices and recruit lobbyists and paralegals; but I have no experience here (nor time to offer).
But it's not in my nature to see an impending problem (which obviously is on the forefront of both yours and Kerry's minds) and not at least inquire.
Maybe some galvanization or catalyst to set things going is needed. Is there someplace that the aftermarket manuf. meet - say dinner at a race event - where the proposal (either join SEMA or form a better organization than MIC) could be floated?
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k bryant
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posted April 17, 2004 12:11 PM
Rob is correct. I've been on the SAE Technical committee, and the MIC Tech committee for many years. The aftermarket struggles for "equal" time. The OEMs put in the most money, and obviously have the most to gain (or lose). So naturally, they have the most say in the direction. In that regard, their P&A for exhaust, is not a huge profit center and it brings many "legal" issues to the front. They also have a hard time competeing with the aftermarket when it comes to exhaust. They make a lot more money elsewhere. As an aftermarket company, we have many avenues the can & do lobby for us. But it is a struggle for our voices to be heard.
Being a member of SEMA, I can tell you that they set the bar very high for the motorcycle industry to follow. But we can keep hoping...
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RobMuzzy
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posted April 17, 2004 01:09 PM
SEMA started a motorcycle side of there organization in the 90's, we were one of the original members. Unfortinatly they backed out at the request of the MIC. We then joined the MIC, after a couple years it became evident that if the agendas of the OEM's and the aftermarket Mfg.'s conflicted the MIC protected the OEM's. Please don't think that I am not in favor of the MIC. They do wonderful things for Motorcycling that benefit all of us and deserve what ever support we can give. What I am saying is the motorcycle performance industry needs an organization just like SEMA, or we need to convince SEMA to reconcider the Motorcycle Performance Industry. How about it kerry.
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RobMuzzy
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posted April 17, 2004 01:11 PM
MSEMA !!!!!
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k bryant
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posted April 17, 2004 05:35 PM
You read my mind. I'm going to talk to SEMA next week.! Hey, I kinda like that: "Motorcycle Performance Industry" (MPI).
It's kinda sad. When I put on my Automotive division hat and deal with SEMA, do the Shows, whatever, I really feel like they care about "us". When you add all of "us" together like the exhaust guys, other aftermarket guys, and the huge distributors like Keystone, Summit, etc. that's alot of voices and horsepower. Not only do we hold our own against the OEMs, but the OEMs just really seem to welcome us and make everyone feel united.
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kz2zx
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posted April 17, 2004 06:00 PM
Kerry, that's exactly what I meant.
I'm in the wrong industry, I guess.
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k bryant
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posted April 17, 2004 06:06 PM
The motorcycle industry is the best bunch of overall people on the planet. It's not my job. It's my life.
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