fish_antlers
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posted March 30, 2004 08:01 PM
 Edited By: fish_antlers on 30 Mar 2004 20:09
Be happy you didnt get an R1! Engine fails!
http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76438
Originally posted by BigSwole at r1-forum.com
quote:
BigSwole
Title: The Original Crazy Cracker
From: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 32
Bike: 2004 Honda CRF450R, 2004 Yamaha R1
Joined: Mar 2004
My first post on this Forum, and it not going to be a positive one.
I work at a local dealer in the Metro Atlanta area. I purchased the first 04 R1 that came in. I took it around the block here at work 2-3 times, then loaded it on my truck..... Took it off the truck when I got home to go for a short ride before retiring for the nite. I got 3-4 miles from my house and started hearing a loud noise that kept getting louder. Pullled off the road, called a buddy to come pick me up. He took me back to my truck, then went and loaded her up..... A total of 10 miles on this bike ( Easy miles mind you, Normally I would be doin 2 mile wheelies on a broken-in bike, but I know how to respect a new engine)
Yamaha Rep. was called and came out to the shop... He and one of our techs. had to take the whole bike and motor down....Results,,,,,,,,,,Spun #1 and #4 rod bearings , with #1 piston hitting the head!!! 10 FREAKIN MILES!!!!! Long story short, They have to replace the Crank, Rods, ALL rod and Main bearing, One piston, ALL piston rings, ALL o-rings, the Oil pump and not sure what else!!!!
Yamaha is calling me, a Dealer employee and rider of 24 yrs. and a salesperson that has some control what brand to sell a new customer, ( multiline dealer, Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki and Kawasaki ) a LIAR!!!! They are calling it improper breakin, setting me up for costing me money in the future and labeling me as a hard rider!!!!
Bottom line I may be selling this bike and buying a ZX 10 and letting Everyone at Yamaha know about it EVERY freakin day from hear on out!!!!
OH YEAH!!!! The yamaha guy is here now to reassemble my bike after it being down for almost 4 weeks,,,,, Get this , Yamaha is going to put out a memo to ALL dealers stating that a certified Mechanic or Setup person at alll dealers are now going to be required to do the BREAKIN on all new R1's before the customer is allowed to take delivery!!! Can you believe that???? Who wants a new bike with several hundred miles on it???
Anyone else having or heard of any problems like this?? Please let me know!!!
Thanks!
Smoking around me, could be Hazzardous to your health!!!
Posted On:
03-29-2004 at 08:47 PM
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k bryant
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posted March 30, 2004 08:57 PM
Historically, Yamaha's have been some of the most reliable bikes made. As far as the rest goes, those are surprising comments for someone who works at a dealership.
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fish_antlers
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posted March 30, 2004 08:59 PM
There's a rumour on that site going around of a fax from Yamaha instructing dealers to break in the R1's before they are given to the customers...
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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k bryant
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posted March 30, 2004 09:03 PM
That would be a tasty rumor. I've never heard of such a thing. Can't happen. Would you buy that bike after someone/anyone, broke it in for you? I didn't think so...
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fish_antlers
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posted March 30, 2004 09:05 PM
hey.. I'm just saying that that's what I heard and that the r1's are fucked.
BTW... you can swear on this site... I saw that 10R.net is threatening to use their profanity filtering software...
All I can say is thats kinda fucking lame. And gay too. What fucking fags. 
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extremelean
Pro
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posted March 30, 2004 09:07 PM
I know a few people at Yamaha......I'll see if I can dig up any info.
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k bryant
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posted March 30, 2004 09:13 PM
Me too. But it's almost to unbelievable to ask them about it.
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Dino
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posted March 30, 2004 09:18 PM
I watched a guy with a brand new one (maybe 100 miles?) start one from cold, let it idle about 3 seconds, and held it to the limiter for about 3 seconds (twice), then turned it off.
I said "Jesus, man.......let the oil get to where it's supposed to be!!!
I guess that's how some break them in. BTW,... he buys a new R1 every year.
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uh oh
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fish_antlers
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posted March 30, 2004 09:21 PM
check THIS out 
(also from r1forum)
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fish_antlers
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posted March 30, 2004 10:28 PM
well.. that'll be about the end of the 04 R1.. even if it isnt for real.. this is spreading like wildfire.. it hasnt even begun to hit home yet.... I cant believe Yamaha doesnt have people online on that site doing damage control... What a classic example of a manufacturer overlooking the power of these forums we participate in...
Sheesh.. look at the beating the 12R took for being 1mph shy of the busa... look at how one journo's comment about the 10R tranny being clunky led to months of rumours...
this is 100x worse and it's backed up with memo's to the dealers... Yikes!
Yamaha blew it big time! Other manufacturers beware.. pay close attention to these sites.... if problems arent addressed you could be in a whole lot of trouble!@
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DB
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posted March 30, 2004 10:40 PM
tell it fish
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Dan
04 ZX10r (Track only)
08 Concours14
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Michael Lee
Zone Head
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posted March 31, 2004 12:19 AM
Thought it was all just a rumor, good job F/A. Tho it's not a bad thing for reliable set-up person to do while on a test ride. I was thinking that they would have to put a few hundred miles on the bike or something. At my local dealership for safety reasons all new bikes are taken on a test rides (about 2 miles). But we all know how things take off for the worst on the net. As long as their are no more engine failures they may rebound.
The customer break-in is not too bad. I would happily take avoiding prolong operation above 7000rpm. But I shall still stick to my 4000rpm for the next 300 miles. Thanks again - Mike
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whitesands26
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posted March 31, 2004 12:40 AM
Edited By: whitesands26 on 31 Mar 2004 00:54
The above instructions from Yamaha are within the confines of a "hard break in"...Compare this with some of the comments in the "hard break in" topic on this message board.
This is the type of detailed instructions that should be given by every manufacturer...And I agree that this is crappy that customers are going to have to purchase bikes that have already been ridden...I doubt the instructions will be followed correctly by some of the service technicians I've seen.
The only thing missing from the bulletin from Yamaha is to keep an eye on the temperature gauge throughout the entire process...They do mention it in the initial startup though...
Take notice from the bulletin that states "avoid prolonged operation above 7,000 rpm"....The key word is PROLONGED...This means that you can go above 7,000 rpm BUT only for a very brief period...This means if you rev it to 10,000 rpm you only Barely touch that rpm level and immediately bring the rpms back down under the 7,000 rpm limit. It DOES NOT mean go to 7,000 for 20 seconds...Then hold it 8k for 20 seconds, then 9k for 20 seconds....It means a very quick run past 7k to 10k and then right back down below the 7k limit...As another note I would only go past the 7k limit a maximum of 6 times during that phase of break in and the rest of the time stay under 7k...Also notice that it states to do so only in the lower gears...
There's another note worth mentioning and it states "Avoid prolonged full throttle operation or any condition that could result in engine damage do to overheating"...
Two Key words again..Prolonged and OVERHEATING...Too much HEAT TOO soon can cause problems...This is the reason for brief Riding sessions and cooldowns...Prolonged high rpm riding can generate alot of heat...However, if it is brought up to proper operating temp, then given a brief high rpm run you can properly seat the rings and avoid the heat...You won't overheat the bike if its at 170 degrees and you bring it up to 10,000 rpm briefly 3 times and then give the bike a cool down period.
Those are the best instructions I've seen from a manufacturer reguarding break in procedure.
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badboy
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posted March 31, 2004 02:26 AM
why would an American Web-site be a 'cause of alarm for a Japanese company.
I believe you give these forums too much credit.
www.airamericaradio.com
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marco383
Expert Class
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posted March 31, 2004 02:52 AM
And I was seriously considering a blue R1. Looks like I dodged a bullet. My '98 R1 was as reliable as a Swiss watch though.
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Michael Lee
Zone Head
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posted March 31, 2004 03:46 AM
Really think this will be an isolated incident. Yamaha is really big on quality (even tho they just had a major recall on some of their big cruisers). I personally don't see anything wrong with a "quality tech" doing that sort of quick dealer break-in on any model. I would never want to buy a new bike with zero miles on it. IF Yamaha's were like some Triumph's the real reason for the failure would be exposed quickly via computer download.
Their customer break in is nice.
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Edgar Cardenas
Parking Attendant
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posted March 31, 2004 06:34 AM
Edited By: Edgar Cardenas on 31 Mar 2004 07:14
Something definitely stinks;I really think Yamaha has a great looking new R1 ;would be my second choice and if reviews were much better than ZX-10R (which are not) I might have bought one. Interesting break-in subject still surfacing.
My thought is all superbike customers are in need to have detailed technical explanation as to why break-in a certain way. Forum opinions and experience is helpfull and well intended.I am very gratefull to have forum as one of my sources; but the manufacturer themselves should offer in the owners manual the ZX-10R comes with detailed instructions that leave little or no questions as to HOW and offer more technical information upon request. I would like their technical position in writing ; addressing if new manufacturing processes matter or at least address.
MANUFACTURERS are not family to me; they just are a company I do buisness with like any other.
If you trust them like you trust God ( I trust Gods faithfulness anyways) you live in a dream world. They are a buisness primarily for profit .
In all their glory they can fall short; not the first time I have seen manufacturer blame customer instead of offering customer service. This goes back to what I have said before ;when push comes to shove they will protect their backs and you may innocently be out of luck. This is not about conspiracy or gremlins. That why I reaserch all I can and not trust them blindly; I love Kawasaki motorcycles.Kawasaki has a bunch of my money through various bikes ,service and parts ; all I have owned is Kawasaki for 16 years and am proud.
But.... they are my friends a buisness and should be dealt with as such. They have marketing strategies and have company men which will not tell you everything. I am sure there are lots of good people that work within Kawasaki. For example I am also a nice guy but do not mess with my family or wallet thats off limits. I am not saying all this with arrogance or with paranoia. It's ok if you disagree with me on some of this. You are entitled and is your constitutional right as a free man. These are just some facts I believe in and I do not pretend to cover all aspects on this subject. I honestly Wish Yamaha owner best of luck ;he seems innocent to me.
Well ;maybe this will help us make the best of things and not assume too much. Also other manufacturers may revise their owners manual and also try to educate high performance motorcycle buyers better.
I also hope it is just an isolated case and Yamaha senior management will give acceptable answers or solutions. Time will tell.
wish all the best!
peace.
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fish_antlers
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posted March 31, 2004 06:39 AM
bb... I credit the forums with having the power to spread lots of information, accurate or not, very very quickly. Since people are "members" of the forums and feel that they are part of a community often they take the information much more seriously than if they were to read it in, say, a newspaper or magazine. The word of joe-average tends to hold more water than that of some guy who gets paid to sit there and write copy...
I dont think that I give the forums too much credit... and on top of that the rumours tend to be pretty accurate...
Just look at the rumours that came out of this very site...
Anyhow.. I certainly think that Yamaha, and other manufacturers, should be very aware of the potential power these sites have... You may think I'm off base, but I feel differently.
Remember.. I have first hand experience owing and operating this place.. a lot of information passes through my hands every day... much of it isn't online.
As for this being an isolated incident? The damage is already done... Isolated or not, Yamaha told the guy to pound sand... If I was him I'd be heading down to Yamaha HQ "post office style"... I bet that there are a LOT of nervous Yamaha owners out there wondering what sort of treatment Yamaha will give them if they encouter probs...
Just bad bad bad bad bad press all around, and horribly handled by the manufacturer, both online and in real life.
It's a good one to sit and watch...
"How NOT to handle an obvious warranty claim" by Yamaha
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fish_antlers
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posted April 05, 2004 06:25 AM
top
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whitesands26
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posted April 05, 2004 03:42 PM
Fish...you're right on...
These sites are the best thing for the consumer...Now you get the benefit of talking to people with real life experiences with the exact bike you are looking to purchase...Not just the regular B.S. you get from a salesman.
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yama1yzf
Parking Attendant
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posted April 05, 2004 04:03 PM
Maybe it's because the guy works there that they aren't treating him as a "customer". Fish Antlers is correct in that the bad PR outweighs everything else. I wouldn't draw too many conclusions out of one incident though. As much as I'm a Kawi Fan (despite my ID), I have NEVER heard of anyone that blew an engine in 10 miles, manufacturers problem or not. I have owned more than 20 Japanese bikes, Including a 1999 R1, and never had one with an engine failure. And never heard of one either. All the boards are on fire over this but it will be an isolated incident (handled poorly by Yamaha).
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Ivan
Parking Attendant
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posted April 07, 2004 04:11 AM
Edited By: Ivan on 7 Apr 2004 05:23
I am sure that this is an isolated case, and that Yamaha will take care of it.
Some dealers just like to give people a hard time, and they make things worse by saying things like "it's the customers fault" to the factory rep.
Most likely it comes from the mechanic who doesn't want to do the job because he gets paid "flat rate" (which isn't much money) for the job.
Don't worry, Yamaha will fix this guy's bike at no charge....someone just goofed at assembly.
It sounds like this guy may do better at a different dealer next time.
I have a 2004 R1 that has been to redline a few times with less than the described break-in miles with no problems.
I am sure that Yamaha sent the bulletin around to their dealers to make sure that if anything is wrong with the R1 that it doesn't get delivered to the customer.
I also just picked up the ZX10.....love the both of them. 
Ivan
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fish_antlers
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posted April 07, 2004 06:23 AM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 7 Apr 2004 07:30
Ivan.. the guy IS the dealer. I dont think you read exactly what he said and what has happened.
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skullyeb
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posted April 07, 2004 07:01 AM
Ivan - How are you... Spoke to you a few years ago when I had 01 ZX12(line in Westchester)... JUst sold it and got a blue 10r, love it. In was going to call you and ask you about a Muzzy slip on and PC3rusb, but figured you are crazy busy and maybe this would be easier... let me know... thanks Erik
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04 ZX10R BLUE,EURO FRONT SIGNALS,BALLISTIC LIC/BLINKER REAR BRACKET,LP V SHORT STALK REAR SIGNALS,SPOOL SLIDERS,PIAA EXTREME H7,SCOTTS DAMPER, REAR SEAT COWL, POWER BRONZE TINTED FRONT SCREEN, INTUITIVE FRAME SLIDERS, TANK SLAPPER TANK PROTECTOR, GALFER SS FRONT BLACK LINES, GALFER REAR BLACK LINE, PC3USB, MUZZY CARBON SLIP ON, MUZZY BLACK SOLO EXHAUST BRACKET, MUZZY FAN BLADE, REED VLAVE BLOCK OFF COVERS FROM KYLE RACING
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Ivan
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posted April 08, 2004 04:32 AM
Hi Erik,
I'm fine... Shop is busy as usual...
But it's better to call me at the shop.
I would be happy to take care of your 10R....I have the same color as you
I will be testing a few different pipes on the 10 and making maps for it.
We are currently offering fantastic deals on Muzzy pipes and are maintaining an inventory on them....
Quantity purchases = bigger discounts for the customer.
Call me when you get a chance and I will fill you in on what we are working on.....
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