vozizm
Needs a job
Got Nothing Witty To Say
Posts: 4417
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posted November 24, 2003 02:52 PM
Brock Davidson/Hindle Sidewinder
Are Brock And Hindle poised to oust Muzzy as the king of sidewinders..
Got this from dragbike.com.... But i knew about the brock/hindle step months ago.... No other info avail at this time!!
"""Brock Davidson has brought a brand new 4-into-2-into-1 sidewinder he's developing with Hindle. Test passes are being made on Dustin Clark's bike"""
  
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catman12
Expert Class
Posts: 169
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posted November 24, 2003 10:21 PM
sidewinder
Check this out!
http://www.kiruna.se/~mgrape/bigsidewinder.htm
and testing of stacks..
http://www.kiruna.se/~mgrape/bigstacks.htm
// Mikael
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6.23@126.7mph 1/8mi , 9.44@150.99mph 1/4mi 60" Arm, 1361cc, manual shifting.
http://www.kiruna.se/~mgrape
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1bad12r
Zone Head
Posts: 567
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posted November 25, 2003 05:05 AM
How much is this sidewinder ?
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768 Ryderz
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vozizm
Needs a job
Got Nothing Witty To Say
Posts: 4417
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posted November 25, 2003 05:29 AM
dont know if its for sale yet?...
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1bad12r
Zone Head
Posts: 567
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posted November 25, 2003 06:11 AM
what about the Kiruna ?
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768 Ryderz
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rac4it
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted November 25, 2003 06:44 AM
There have been prototypes of the hindle sidewinder (not sure about Brock's participation) for a while. I am waiting for one to test on a 60" bike.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted November 25, 2003 06:54 AM
Someone correct me if I am "Wrong" again, but the only advantage of a SideWinder is if you dry sump the engine and lower the bike as low as it can go! With a Regular pipe that goes past the sump / Oil Pan, you can still get as low as you want! Or is someone saying that more Horses are to be made?
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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1bad12r
Zone Head
Posts: 567
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posted November 25, 2003 07:11 AM
Vincent, I hope that with a 1317 it will make more HP. I just love the way they sound !!!!!!!!!!
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768 Ryderz
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rac4it
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted November 25, 2003 10:08 AM
Correction- You don't need a dry sump Vincent you can get the Coby Adams pan which is 2" shorter for more ground clearance but still keeps oil in the pan (he adds volume to the pan on the side where using a sidewinder gives you more room).
Also sidewinders typicially make 2-3 hp more up top in addition to the extra ground clearance. They are not suitable for the street unless you only turn left! And like the intimidation factor of the extra noise level.
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zx12richard
Pro
The Green Monster..
Posts: 1133
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posted November 25, 2003 10:49 AM
I notice they compared Bear stacks to their stacks with throttle body mod.... My question is what does Bear stacks make AFTER their same throttle body mod????
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted November 25, 2003 11:55 AM
This is where we have Apples, Oranges and Grapes!
#1, Bear designed his stacks to work on top with the stock Exhaust and after market muffler. He never had a "Sidewinder" on the bike that used the short stacks.
#2, When he did go to the "Sidewinder", this is when he also went to the "Long" Stacks which just so happen to be "5 MM Longer than the stock Boots" just like Catman's Stacks are for his sidewinder.
#3, I still am not sure on exactly how he (Catman) bored his throttle bodies. He stated to me that the "Inlet" is the same, but he took 2 mm off the rest of the throttle body. (Bear follows the "Profile" of the throttle body, which make it necesary for him to have 2 mm larger ID Stacks.
#4, Reading his test, I am not sure if he tested the Bear Stacks on his modified Throttle Bodies.
#5, Last, to be fair, we would need to test his stacks "Long" Stacks against Bear's "Long" Stacks! This way we would get apples against Apples and Grapes against Grapes!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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catman12
Expert Class
Posts: 169
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posted November 25, 2003 12:15 PM
 Edited By: catman12 on 25 Nov 2003 12:24
Vincent! ATOM-Racing long stacks is NOT 5mm longer than stock stacks.
The "inlet" of the stacks are around 50mm and the "outlet" (intake boot) of the TB are near stock so it is bored in profile near stock TB profile.
As you see Vincent the diffference between Akrapovic Evolution and ATOM-Racing Sidewinder is around 5 to 6 hp.
// Mikael
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6.23@126.7mph 1/8mi , 9.44@150.99mph 1/4mi 60" Arm, 1361cc, manual shifting.
http://www.kiruna.se/~mgrape
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted November 25, 2003 01:29 PM
This is what you wrote me and after re-reading it, I guess that it means that they are "MORE" than 5 mm longer than stock stacks!
"Mine stacks are longer than +5mm from stock...
Mine TB:s are bored conical, stoch inner and more than 48mm in the "inlet" of the TB:s
Thanks // Mikael"
I looked at the charts and could not read the green very well but it looks like you did not test the Sidewinder with your stacks on the stock throttle bodies or the Bear stacks on the bored out throttle bodies. is this correct?
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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catman12
Expert Class
Posts: 169
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posted November 25, 2003 01:46 PM
Yes we tested ATOM-Racing stacks with sidewinder and stock TB:s it was around 206.5 hp. I do not have the exact figures here I´m out of town for work.
I did not transfer that dynorun to my websight.
// Mikael
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6.23@126.7mph 1/8mi , 9.44@150.99mph 1/4mi 60" Arm, 1361cc, manual shifting.
http://www.kiruna.se/~mgrape
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted November 25, 2003 02:42 PM
I understand, so it looks lik your bored throttle bodies made about 5 to 6 HP and the Pipe made 5 to 6 HP. I never saw what your "Stacks" made? The test with the stock throttle bodies, Sidewinder and your Big Stacks to compare to the Bear Stacks, Stock Throttle Bodies and the Sidewinder you show on the charts? It would be nice to see that and of course the Bear Stacks on the Bored Throttle Bodies and the Sidewinder so we have Apples to Apples!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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catman12
Expert Class
Posts: 169
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posted November 25, 2003 11:44 PM
Edited By: catman12 on 25 Nov 2003 23:51
Vincent you are right, Sidewinder gave 5-6 HP and bored ATOM-racing bored TB:s gave 5-6 HP installed together with ATOM-Racing stacks wish gave 2 HP, total approx. 8 HP.
I have not dynoed Bear stacks and bored TB:s.
I have start to take out the engine from the motorcycle, but if you want to I can dyno that combination when I come home next week.
Thanks // Mikael
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6.23@126.7mph 1/8mi , 9.44@150.99mph 1/4mi 60" Arm, 1361cc, manual shifting.
http://www.kiruna.se/~mgrape
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted November 26, 2003 06:02 AM
For the "Long" Stacks that are "Smooth" +2 hp is about right (Static Reading) If they are "NOT" Smooth (Like 80 to 150 Grit Sand Paper finish) you "WILL" Gain between .5 and 1 more HP (The 80 should make more than 1 HP more!) All things being equal, your stacks should remove the "DIP" between 5 to 7,000 where the Short make the dip worse in that same area. The deal is, the stacks you made (Like Bears longer stacks) just by themselves can give you .1 in the Drag but no MPH increase. Same setup but with the short stacks, about .05 increase but a MPH Increase. No one knows why or how! If you do test with the stock boots in the complete set up vs the Short Bear stacks, you may see 3 HP Difference which is what I saw.
But if you have 2 sets of your stacks, change the finish and test back to back and you will change the finish on the other set of stacks also! (I know that they do not look as good that way, but it is not about looks it it??
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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catman12
Expert Class
Posts: 169
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posted November 26, 2003 07:26 AM
Vincent with these ATOM-Racing stacks there are an edge between the stacks and the stock TB:s (because they are matched to the bored TB:s) I think it is because of that there are only 2 hp gain.
The gain with these stacks are from the bottom all the way up to the top end, is some areas there are alot more than 2 HP gains.
The stacks are smooth as a mirror.
// Mikael
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6.23@126.7mph 1/8mi , 9.44@150.99mph 1/4mi 60" Arm, 1361cc, manual shifting.
http://www.kiruna.se/~mgrape
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted November 26, 2003 08:02 AM
Finally I now know that you bored your TB's the same way Bear does "EVERYWHERE" removing 2 mm's. I know with them being longer that in "Midrange" they would look real good with maybe 4 or 5 HP more but we were talking "Peak" and that is what it made!
I figured that they were "Glass" Smooth which is why I mentioned roughing them up! By accident, I got some stacks from Pierre that had a bad finish and found that the worse the finish, the more the HP. That is why I suggested that you put them in a Lathe and use fairly rough sand paper on them and then test! You just may see another HP or two.
My feeling about the surface is that the air cannot attach to the surface when they are totally smooth and you do not get the desired Laminar flow!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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catman12
Expert Class
Posts: 169
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posted November 26, 2003 08:53 AM
It is not he same but almost the same way there aresome differences
/ Mikael
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6.23@126.7mph 1/8mi , 9.44@150.99mph 1/4mi 60" Arm, 1361cc, manual shifting.
http://www.kiruna.se/~mgrape
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01zx12r
Expert Class
Posts: 338
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posted November 28, 2003 04:38 PM
I want one
How do I get an Atom Racing Sidewinder and how much does it cost? email azx12rush@aol.com Thanks....Chris
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Lovett Racing/Pedigo Performance
8.40 @170
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catman12
Expert Class
Posts: 169
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posted November 29, 2003 01:29 PM
Edited By: catman12 on 1 Dec 2003 12:57
Vincent! Now I have some more interesting dynocharts on my websight, look here:
http://www.kiruna.se/~mgrape/bigstacks.htm
// Mikael
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6.23@126.7mph 1/8mi , 9.44@150.99mph 1/4mi 60" Arm, 1361cc, manual shifting.
http://www.kiruna.se/~mgrape
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necro
Needs a job
My Grandma Is A Virgin
Posts: 2148
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posted November 29, 2003 08:09 PM
http://www.kiruna.se/~mgrape/bigstacks.htm
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3829
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted November 30, 2003 04:58 PM
I understand the Ridge you speak of and see that the Bear and yours criss cross each other all of the way up! I also know that there is just no way to make this test fair to you because of the size difference! Only thing I have not seen is the Bear stacks on your Modified throttle bodies and SideWinder!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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zx12richard
Pro
The Green Monster..
Posts: 1133
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posted November 30, 2003 07:38 PM
quote:
Only thing I have not seen is the Bear stacks on your Modified throttle bodies and SideWinder!
Me too....
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