BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted September 07, 2003 03:29 PM
NITROUS & PCIIIR mapping question
I got to ride someone elses 12R down the track yesterday.
It's a 2000 12R, 60" wheelbase (+3"?) and a 35-40 shot of nitrous, stock engine, Muzzy Sidewinder pipe, -1t & +2T using a Schinko.
On my third pass I hit the 60' fairly well, but didn't have it all together down the track. (let off throttle when shifting (by habit) and didn't get back in it all the way. Also was letting off nitrous button during shifting.)
It went 1.49 on the 60',......4.03 at the 330', and 6.08@120 at the 1/8th, fighting a bit of a wheelie. Final ET was 9.38 at 148.
AS you can see, everything up to the 1/8th was pretty good, but the big end was not what it should have been considering the nitrous. (I didn't think my screw-ups were THAT bad, but maybe they were)
3.3 seconds for the big end. I've done that a hundred times on a stock 12R, no nitrous. :-/
The power commander is a PCIII, not the R version, and the bike has no timing in it whatsoever.
I think the bike has something like +40 - +43 in it's 100% throttle settings. Is that too much?? I was thinking that it was too much and EdBadass12 was thinking so too.
Any advice on how much fuel should be added would be great!
I assume the 'zero' timing is pretty much good to go, yes?
Seems like the mph should be more like 158, right? Yeah, I'm a member of Team Featherweight. 
  
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TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
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posted September 07, 2003 06:18 PM
Add as much fuel as the bike needs. Its kinda hard to tune it on a dyno because you lose the "ram air" effect. Its better to be rich if you're spraying. You should dyno the bike to see what the A/F ratio is as a baseline... then spray it and see how close your are.
What might work even better is the EFR timing box. You know that box that retards the timing when the nitrous solenoid is activated
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted September 07, 2003 07:08 PM
How much is the timing being retarded in the map?
Those numbers are a bit much for that amount of nitrous...I use similar numbers and am spraying nearly twice as much. Then again its only +40 - +45 above 8krpm to redline.
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted September 08, 2003 06:41 AM
he has NO additional timing at all! It's just a PCIII.
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zrxdean
Needs a job
Posts: 2225
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posted September 08, 2003 08:17 AM
Was the bottle full? Warm enough? Doesn't sound like you got any spray at all. What MPH did the bike run all motor?
When are you gonna spray YOUR bike BA????? 
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Cowboy
Pro
Posts: 1061
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posted September 08, 2003 08:41 AM
Sounds like too much fuel.I'm at +20,+25 from about 8000rpm and up in the 100%box and running 2 stage with .020,.036 pills.If i get into the 5s in the 1/8 its almost a guaranteed to be in the 8s at over 160mph
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted September 08, 2003 10:07 AM
take a look at the bottle itself....perhaps its not a high flow valve in it (I had this problem) If its a run of the mill CO2 bottle he is using for nitrous..it will NOT have a high flow valve in it.
Also how is the bottle sitting? does it have a siphon tube? From the factory, the siphon tube aims down where the exit fitting is...so if the bottle is sitting sideways with the fitting pointing to one side, the siphon tube is probably sucking gas instead of liquid.
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted September 08, 2003 01:31 PM
great info guys. I will check into the bottle arrangement and valve.
Unfortunately, I'm not sure if the bottle was full or not, or even giving proper pressure. I will inquire about that though!
Seems to me that it's a CO2 bottle, so the valve thing is important.
I've not run the bike with no nitrous and the PROPER map. Using the nitrous map and no nitrous, it ran a 9.5ish at 143-144 I think. Still not up to par, but it was obviously way rich so I have reason to believe the engine is solid.
I do want to get a proper baseline so I see about getting a different map in there for a couple of runs.
FWIW, I *could* actually feel some accelleration when hitting the bottle but since it's my first time I couldn't tell you if it was 'right' or not.
COWBOY: "...into the 5's and you're almost guaranteed to be in the 8's".
Really?!? I wasn't aware of that! You're not a 1270 or 1361 are ya?
Hell, with my 4.03 and 6.08 I can almost guarantee a 5.xx on this bike. It was only my 3rd pass. If you're right, then it sounds like we should be knockin' the 9.0's and 8.9's right now instead of the 9.3's......
Are you (and others) using 4 gears, or 5 gears??
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted September 08, 2003 03:08 PM
Easy way to tell about the valve...if its a butterfly type valve on the side...its a low flow C02 valve...and would most certainly limit the effects of the spray dramatically.
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted September 08, 2003 03:25 PM
too much fuel, and don't lift on a dry kit while shifting keep it planted
dont be skurd
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Cowboy
Pro
Posts: 1061
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posted September 08, 2003 04:20 PM
BA,I'm running a two stage so it is kinda like a 1270 with one stage.I don't think you would see a difference with a high flow valve when your only running one pill that big.It deffinately could be low bottle pressure,bottle possition or bottle near empty though.
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted September 08, 2003 04:53 PM
Yes you would.....I was amazed at the difference between a low flow and a high flow valve.
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted September 09, 2003 02:34 PM
Well, we have some good news on the front, but also another cry for some assistance.
Supposedly, the valve is straight from Nitrous Express, and the pick-up was specifically positioned along with the bottle. So, without my seeing it, we should have things right there, but I want to see it firsthand!
Interestingly though, there was a good sized leak at the nitrous solenoid!!
Apparently the nut was over tightened and it cracked the nut and had backed off some.
Hopefully that is the only problem. We'll know more on THURSDAY because da weatherman is calling for some excellent weather!!!!!! woohooo!
The cry for assistance is this: Does anyone have a stock cc / Nitrous bike that would like to share their map with me? Pleeeeease?
I know you've all mentioned the +20 - +25 in the upper RPM ranges but the owner just "feels more comfortable" using someone's known good map. Go figure.
Thanks!
OH, PS.....DEAN,.......I must be greedy or something because I want a stroker over a nitrous setup. Or maybe that's just my way of not spending the money right now!
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted September 09, 2003 03:17 PM
Whats yer email..I have a few maps from when I was sprayin a pill that small you can have
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
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posted September 09, 2003 06:16 PM
I used the 34 pill and only bumped up the PC3 three bars on the high range. I ran two classes sometimes and didn't spray all the time. Worked great and would usually gain round 8mph with a full bottle on top of a 1361.
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted September 09, 2003 06:50 PM
 Edited By: BA on 9 Sep 2003 19:51
sportbikeral@hotmail.com
Thanks yo!
Ken, I have your 8.91 run in my Excel spreadsheet for comparison data!
MADMIKE: (or anyone using the Sidewinder) Is there any special mapping considerations that I should be aware of when using the Sidewinder? ie. add 3% more fuel to top vs a 'regular pipe' mapping?
DoublePS. Everyone should check my UPDATED old thread about my bike in the 12R forum. Bike is running good again!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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